[19G20]

Hello,

Had to comment on this run in with a Tesla Model S merging onto the highway.
I was behind the Tesla Model S about a car and I floor it trying to pass from 30 mph and he floors it and we are dead even until about 70 mph where he starts pulling. My car only has PPK. No noise, no drama, the guys cars just starts moving haha. I want one baaaad.

[n54gte]

Torque...

[edirtaynine]

torque > horsepower

[NorthernCAE90]

Silicon Valley REP+++

[Turb0Surge]

Let me just leave this here:

http://www.automobilemag.com/am/01/2...eos/18001.html



Of course I think the driver racing the m5 drives like my grandmother, but the fact that they are even comparing it to the m5 gives you something to think about.

[19G20]

Did not know it was that fast as in the video.

[ThEnder]

There is something wrong with that video, the Tesla Model S performance does 0-60 in 5 seconds according to Motor Trend. The F10 M5 also according to Motor Trend does 0-60 in 3.7 seconds. No way the Model S can take an M5.

At least on paper, the Model S and a stock 335i look like they would be about the same in terms of acceleration and quarter mile.

[AzureHaze]

Dat instant torque.

I want one too as soon as they finally fix all those pesky electronic issues.

[johnnyboi418]

Originally Posted by NorthernCAE90

Silicon Valley REP+++

LOL

[techwhiz]

Torque. Maximum torque for electric motors is at standstill.
But torque is the answer.

[alexwhittemore]

Originally Posted by techwhiz

Torque. Maximum torque for electric motors is at standstill.
But torque is the answer.

For one, stall torque is rarely peak torque for an electric motor, not one designed for performance anyway.

for two, torque isn't (ever) the ONLY thing that matters. In an EV it's A) more important, because there's often no transmission besides that (or rather a fixed transmission without multiple speeds), but also B) more available, since electric motors have a flatter torque curve (thus, a more linear power curve).

For three, the real point is that as far as power management goes, you basically can't beat electric. It's simpler, easier, and better. No turbos to spool up, no lag between control and output, basically none of the things that make gas engines hard to design really, really well. Electric is basically cheating, and the performance of the model S shows that.

The hard, annoying part is energy storage.

[williamf]

Tesla is on my short list probably in its next generation. It is really good now, and will be amazing in the next gen.

[techwhiz]

Originally Posted by alexwhittemore

For one, stall torque is rarely peak torque for an electric motor, not one designed for performance anyway.

for two, torque isn't (ever) the ONLY thing that matters. In an EV it's A) more important, because there's often no transmission besides that (or rather a fixed transmission without multiple speeds), but also B) more available, since electric motors have a flatter torque curve (thus, a more linear power curve).

For three, the real point is that as far as power management goes, you basically can't beat electric. It's simpler, easier, and better. No turbos to spool up, no lag between control and output, basically none of the things that make gas engines hard to design really, really well. Electric is basically cheating, and the performance of the model S shows that.

The hard, annoying part is energy storage.

I was making a comment. I really don't need an education in electric motors since I hold an MSEE.

Your tone is condescending.
If you want to be accurate:

Maximum torque for an electric motor is a 0 RPM.
Maximum power at 50% maximum RPM.
Maximum efficiency at 75-90% of maximum RPM.

On the typical gas engine as load increases and RPM falls so does torque.
On the typical electric motor an increase in load and decrease in RPM increases torque.

Electric motrors do exhibit a dip in torque but like most electric motors for cars, even model cars have high start torque. The torque then rises again until you get to break down torque.

The torque available to acceleration is :
Accel Torque = Available Motor Torque - Load Torque.
The load being aerodyanamic friction, mass and rolling friction.

I don't see how electric is cheating anymore than a turbo is.
F1 cars use KERS; Kinetic Energy Recovery System to boost peak HP for short period of time.

The BMW 335i Hybrid uses a transmission/elctric motor combination for power delivery.

Anyway, I don't need an education. Thank you.

[paulguma]

Originally Posted by techwhiz

I was making a comment. I really don't need an education in electric motors since I hold an MSEE.

Your tone is condescending.
If you want to be accurate:

Maximum torque for an electric motor is a 0 RPM.
Maximum power at 50% maximum RPM.
Maximum efficiency at 75-90% of maximum RPM.

On the typical gas engine as load increases and RPM falls so does torque.
On the typical electric motor an increase in load and decrease in RPM increases torque.

Electric motrors do exhibit a dip in torque but like most electric motors for cars, even model cars have high start torque. The torque then rises again until you get to break down torque.

The torque available to acceleration is :
Accel Torque = Available Motor Torque - Load Torque.
The load being aerodyanamic friction, mass and rolling friction.

I don't see how electric is cheating anymore than a turbo is.
F1 cars use KERS; Kinetic Energy Recovery System to boost peak HP for short period of time.

The BMW 335i Hybrid uses a transmission/elctric motor combination for power delivery.

Anyway, I don't need an education. Thank you.

You read too far into his comment.

[elinstylez]

I don't normally street race but I had a Model S tail me recently from a stop light. I accelerated up to 60 miles per hour with the Tesla right behind me, but I was able to slowly crawl away.

I have JB4 stage 2 on map 5, 91 octane.

[keepittrill]

Originally Posted by ThEnder

There is something wrong with that video, the Tesla Model S performance does 0-60 in 5 seconds according to Motor Trend. The F10 M5 also according to Motor Trend does 0-60 in 3.7 seconds. No way the Model S can take an M5.

At least on paper, the Model S and a stock 335i look like they would be about the same in terms of acceleration and quarter mile.

No, the performance does down in the early 4s...

[d8rknight]

Originally Posted by elinstylez

I don't normally street race but I had a Model S tail me recently from a stop light. I accelerated up to 60 miles per hour with the Tesla right behind me, but I was able to slowly crawl away.

I have JB4 stage 2 on map 5, 91 octane.

similar story, wasnt racing but was hauling @ss early like 5am at like 90mph and the a Telsa.. not sure what kind.. but he gunned it after he saw me coming and i walked right past him after 120+ prob needed a charge.. but still impressive

[elinstylez]

Originally Posted by keepittrill

No, the performance does down in the early 4s...

They seem to have different performance models so I think he's right based on my experience. I was slowly pulling away with my tune.

[elinstylez]

Originally Posted by d8rknight

similar story, wasnt racing but was hauling @ss early like 5am at like 90mph and the a Telsa.. not sure what kind.. but he gunned it after he saw me coming and i walked right past him after 120+ prob needed a charge.. but still impressive

From what I understand they are not that fast from a roll but have great torque. I think you must have been running against one of their faster models with 400+ tq.

[alexwhittemore]

Originally Posted by elinstylez

From what I understand they are not that fast from a roll but have great torque. I think you must have been running against one of their faster models with 400+ tq.

Every S on the road now is the performance model, since they have production full up with it (why produce cheaper cars if demand exceeds capacity for more expensive ones?) I'm not certain about that, it could just be that they're only producing the 85kWh pack models, but anyway if that's as true as I think it is that's the performance discrepancy: the ~5s 0-60 number is the base model, which doesn't exist in the wild yet.

[DFW_M]

OP forgot to mention that after the run he had to get off the HWY and refill, while the Tesla guy went another few hundred miles before plugging in...

[19G20]

I did haha. My car is running like shit anyway.

Originally Posted by dr335is

OP forgot to mention that after the run he had to get off the HWY and refill, while the Tesla guy went another few hundred miles before plugging in...