[Former_Boosted_IS]

I have been working through my review of the Vishnu/FFTEC VFF700 (PT 6262 CEA Turbo) and I am getting toward the end of the review. I won't give a timetable for completion, but I have a ton written already. While I was doing some of the testing, I thought I might post a quick log showing how fast this car gets into boost on my single setup. My review will include a lot more data on this, but here is one log to enjoy.

During this testing, I am looking to quantify how long it takes for the car to reach 10 psi and 20 psi after going WOT (TPS 100%). I always say you drive a car in it's powerband. That would mean you don't floor a Ferrari at 2k rpms and expect it to accelerate like it would at 5k rpms. In this log, I started with the at about 3700 rpms in 2nd gear and floor the car so you can see how fast the turbo comes on when the car is in the powerband. Notice I go full WOT at exactly 2.0 seconds. The car reaches 10 psi in just 0.73 seconds and reaches 20 psi in 1.01 seconds. This shows just how fast the turbo hits and just how fast you get to 500 rwtq on my car.





I will do this testing for 2k rpms and 3k rpms in my review.

[pits200]

That's impressive, nice, quick and concise log.

[BAL278]

Thanks for posting.. Glad to see updates.. The real test will be from the lower rpm range.. This setup has more potential top end, but if from the lower powerband it can spool quickly.. We've got ourselves a winner

[STONEY_M5]

Of course it will its a high compression 3 liter

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by BAL278

Thanks for posting.. Glad to see updates.. The real test will be from the lower rpm range.. This setup has more potential top end, but if from the lower powerband it can spool quickly.. We've got ourselves a winner

I kind of disagree. I think this speaks huge volumes about the capability of the car. If you drive an M3 and try to take off at 2k rpms, then it won't pull and it is the driver's job to know the powerband then keep the car there. I never drive at 2k rpms. At bare minimum, I am at 3k rpms because I know the powerband of my car.

[CaptainInsano]

Do you find it spools quicker with meth? I just wasted 2 gallons of meth in the hills, and thought I felt a faster spool. Also I was screaming like a little girl and will never run the car without meth again.

[zerep1]

People are really spoiled with our twins they should jump in a stock evo or sti those cars have major lag from factory And I feel like nobody complains about that as long turbo can make the stock boost curve the lag is really the transition from 300hp to 600hp not 100 hp to 600hp like some evos I know

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by CaptainInsano

Do you find it spools quicker with meth? I just wasted 2 gallons of meth in the hills, and thought I felt a faster spool. Also I was screaming like a little girl and will never run the car without meth again.

I am in the process of doing that testing. I will have answers tomorrow on that.

[cupertinosteve]

would it be fair to say that stock turbo at 20PSI is very different than a PT6262 at 20PSI?

[CaptainInsano]

Originally Posted by cupertinosteve

would it be fair to say that stock turbo at 20PSI is very different than a PT6262 at 20PSI?

You mean with regards to boost response right? Aren't you single turbo?

[Bash]

Define lag! You cannot race from 2k rpm whether its on stock, Rbs or single turbos, therefore lag would not be even mentioned when racing as you would probably be around 4k rpm anyway.
When you want to show lag, you want to show normal street driving into an increase in speeds, overtaking perhaps without the need to rev the shit out of a car. Its there where you say omg this car is so slow to get to speed or after taking a ramp to highway stuff like that when you're not in spirited mode.
Starting a pull at 4k rpm and saying theres no lag from 4-7k rpm is not so much convincing.

[zerep1]

Originally Posted by Bash

Define lag! You cannot race from 2k rpm whether its on stock, Rbs or single turbos, therefore lag would not be even mentioned when racing as you would probably be around 4k rpm anyway.
When you want to show lag, you want to show normal street driving into an increase in speeds, overtaking perhaps without the need to rev the shit out of a car. Its there where you say omg this car is so slow to get to speed or after taking a ramp to highway stuff like that when you're not in spirited mode.
Starting a pull at 4k rpm and saying theres no lag from 4-7k rpm is not so much convincing.

For the purpose of overtaking and such I do not think you will be down on power rolling into it at 2500 I mean do you need 600 hp to overtake a Prius

[skinrock]

Originally Posted by Bash

Define lag! You cannot race from 2k rpm whether its on stock, Rbs or single turbos, therefore lag would not be even mentioned when racing as you would probably be around 4k rpm anyway.
When you want to show lag, you want to show normal street driving into an increase in speeds, overtaking perhaps without the need to rev the shit out of a car. Its there where you say omg this car is so slow to get to speed or after taking a ramp to highway stuff like that when you're not in spirited mode.
Starting a pull at 4k rpm and saying theres no lag from 4-7k rpm is not so much convincing.

Which is why he will do 2k and 3k in the review.

It would also be interesting to get the logs for the 58mm since that's what most AT guys will have to run.

[jippii ensio]

Originally Posted by skinrock

Which is why he will do 2k and 3k in the review.

It would also be interesting to get the logs for the 58mm since that's what most AT guys will have to run.

If you'd need power quickly, you would instantly kick-down yourself into the 4k RPM power anyways.

[BoostedE90]

Great info! Can't wait to read your review.

[skinrock]

Originally Posted by jippii ensio

If you'd need power quickly, you would instantly kick-down yourself into the 4k RPM power anyways.

Everyone seems to criticize that feature

[BAL278]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

I kind of disagree. I think this speaks huge volumes about the capability of the car. If you drive an M3 and try to take off at 2k rpms, then it won't pull and it is the driver's job to know the powerband then keep the car there. I never drive at 2k rpms. At bare minimum, I am at 3k rpms because I know the powerband of my car.

I totally get that, but my statement was moreso for the detractors of a single turbo setup.. who are unsure whether to go for a big single or upgraded twins.. if the turbo spools quickly from the lower rpms, then it's day to day drivability is not compromised.. if you're in top gear at 2,000 rpms it'd be nice if you could ride the torque curve from down low to pass someone instead of downshifting.. this of course does not apply to highway pulls (in Mexico of course)

[son_of_siggy]

Two different animals. Doesn't make sense to pigeonhole the singles powerband into a direct comparison with the twins. All that shows is how lazy drivers can get away with being by not shifting into the proper gear when asking for power. Boosted had it right on. You wouldnt overtake in a Ferrari startingat 2000 rpm. Why judge it based on that?

[CaptainInsano]

Originally Posted by BAL278

I totally get that, but my statement was moreso for the detractors of a single turbo setup.. who are unsure whether to go for a big single or upgraded twins.. if the turbo spools quickly from the lower rpms, then it's day to day drivability is not compromised.. if you're in top gear at 2,000 rpms it'd be nice if you could ride the torque curve from down low to pass someone instead of downshifting.. this of course does not apply to highway pulls (in Mexico of course)

62mm Single turbo spools at about 3600-3700rpm:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=735215

RBs spool at about 3000rpm:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=480025

Stockers spool at about 3000rpm:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=735589

Did you want response times at various RPMs? FBIS is working on that.

[pentaxis]

The discussion here is basically talking about two different things. FBIS is showing the transient response that this kit and particular turbo has (which is in my mind "turbo lag") on the N54.

Initial spool up characteristics are important as well, but dropping a gear to be in the meat of the powerband is something you do on pretty much any car. Knowing that how quickly a particular setup will pick up steam when this is done is really the issue. From the graphs FBIS posted, it looks as if this particular setup has pretty impressive transient response.

[cupertinosteve]

Originally Posted by CaptainInsano

You mean with regards to boost response right? Aren't you single turbo?

Yes, I am. I didn't want to influence his response based on what i say.

That's to say ...

stock turbos pushing 20psi != RB Turbos pushing 20psi != TD Turbos pushing 20psi != ASR Turbos pushing 20psi != PT Turbo pushing 20psi

PSI are not the only characteristic of generating power - at what level of efficiency did it take to get there (ie heat generated in the charge and other characteristics).

I think once FBIS is done with his testing and published how he got the numbers. I can try to duplicate it and give another data point for 6AT 58mm.

I would love to see some one with a 6MT try a 58mm setup. I think there is more top left in the 58mm than what a 6AT can show. That being the case, it spools even faster than the 62mm.

But all this 100% E85 progress might push the 6MT+58mm to its limit. Who knows. :0

[cupertinosteve]

Originally Posted by CaptainInsano

62mm Single turbo spools at about 3600-3700rpm:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=735215

RBs spool at about 3000rpm:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=480025

Stockers spool at about 3000rpm:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=735589

Did you want response times at various RPMs? FBIS is working on that.

Nice comparison.

I can say that the 58mm setup is somewhere between stock/RB and 62mm.

For giggles, let's say its halfway between -- 3300 RPM. Is a 300rpm difference detectable as "laggy" for daily driving?

For a 6MT, I would say "no".

For a 6AT, I would say "its hard to detect the little difference" - dynobutts may vary.