[joec500]

So I have been debating whether to even post this, because of the Sh*t storm it could cause, but I just wanted to share some of my experiences, as I think a lot of people are or will go through a decision of which tune to get.

Background: I have owned my 335 for 4+ years and have run every Procede, except the Rev 3, and GIAC Flash.

After researching a bit more on the Cobb, I decided to give it a go because I felt it was a more polished product than the Vishnu Tuning Procede. I have been running a rev2.5 with the May Release of the aggressive maps on a stock car (ZERO Engine Bolt ons).

Cobb:

1. I loved the integration and the idea of never having to pop my hood.
2. All the extra features like code reading/clearing, adaptation reset, Performance logging and data logging are so much easier to use, because you do not need a laptop which is really great.
3. And overall I still feel that the Cobb is actually a more polished tuning package, it's great for the noob that does not want to touch anything under the hood. This would be the tune I would recommend to the less technically inclined.

There is not really anything I dislike about this tune, and so people might ask, why are you switching back to the Vishnu Tune?

Procede:

I switched back because of the tune characteristics for a stock car. The thing just rips the mid-range, which is where I spend most of my time in this car. On a Dyno, they will probably pull similar HP/TQ numbers (I am assuming), but the car just drives more aggressively with the procede. For me it's not about HP/TQ numbers, but rather power delivery. And I much prefer the aggressive feel of Procede. And to me this trumps all the positives for the Cobb. Perhaps I need a custom tune for the Cobb?

I am curious if a custom Cobb Map could give a similar power delivery experience.

The Off the Shelf Maps are nice, definitely add a nice power bump and makes the car drive like it should, no drama, smooth, but just faster. The Procede has a lot more drama in power delivery (which I like). My Traction Control works overtime with this tune.

The Procede is not for everyone (sorry Shiv), but for someone who prefers the aggressive feel of the most recent Procede Maps, it's worth the time to tear open your ECU box and plug in some wiring harnesses. Also the Rev2.5's are about half the cost of a new Cobb, but when tuning a 40-50k car, who's counting right?

My parting advice is to drive a car with both tunes to see for yourself, or at the very least, get rides in cars with various tunes it's pretty eye opening to drive two tunes back to back that put out similar HP/TQ numbers, but just feel so different in power delivery.

[Ace_HollyWood]

Helpful, thank you!

[timtech]

I always liked the way the Procede felt - so I know where you are coming from. I had the Cobb Pro Tuned by Pro Tuning Freaks to get timing added in to get the same feeling. Jake was great to work with and knew exactly what I was looking for.

[joec500]

Originally Posted by timtech

I always liked the way the Procede felt - so I know where you are coming from. I had the Cobb Pro Tuned by Pro Tuning Freaks to get timing added in to get the same feeling. Jake was great to work with and knew exactly what I was looking for.

Were you able to replicate the power delivery of the Procede with the custom tune?

[timtech]

Originally Posted by joec500

Were you able to replicate the power delivery of the Procede with the custom tune?

As close as I remember. Cobb is very conservative on timing and strong on boost. What I have now is something that I really like.

When I try to describe the stock Cobb feel, it's like being pushed with a small balloon from another person.... It's not as sharp as a straight arm. Feelings are subjective.

I recently got my intake valves cleaned and that made it even sharper.

[type rrr]

with ATR and COBB...sky the limit

[OpenFlash]

The Baseline aggressive maps have virtually the same ign advance targets as all the Cobb aggressive logs I've seen. The differences in response comes primarily from throttle/boost control.

And if anyone thinks the sky is the limit on custom dme programming hasn't tried to make a max power tune yet. Have we even seem any Cobb tuned RB cars that are making anything close to the power we have seen them make with other tunes? I tuned dzennos car to 500whp last year. Is he making anything close to that now? I'm not trying to start an argument. Just looking for actual data.

[CaptainInsano]

People buy different tunes for different reasons.

If you think that flash tuning is safer, stick with the Cobb. If you want the most power, piggies are the answer at the moment.

I myself don't really care what a tune might be capable of in the future. I'm going to buy the most powerful one right now. That's why Shiv is shoving E85 down my cars' throat right now.

[mithiral67]

Good write up.

And Captain, I think safety is a non-factor between piggies and flashes. Both methods have proven to be very safe, regardless of the method of tuning.

[Vwgrk1]

Shiv, any thoughts on the proceed flashing the ECU instead of having to send it to you?

One of Cobb's selling points is the ability to remove it more or less without much of a trace.

[Rob@Cobb]

Thanks for the review. It's incredibly important to get feedback for us.

I think Shiv is right, it's constant spooling the turbos even on the smallest tip-in that makes the in your face aggressive response. It's too much for me as I find it hard to modulate the throttle making the non-LSD car snap too easily. I'm an autocross/track guy who likes a nice linear throttle. It seems like the piggie has a hard time blending the part throttle with the full throttle. It seemed in consistent. Drove well at full throttle.

Cheers,
Rob

[joec500]

Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb

Thanks for the review. It's incredibly important to get feedback for us.

I think Shiv is right, it's constant spooling the turbos even on the smallest tip-in that makes the in your face aggressive response. It's too much for me as I find it hard to modulate the throttle making the non-LSD car snap too easily. I'm an autocross/track guy who likes a nice linear throttle. It seems like the piggie has a hard time blending the part throttle with the full throttle. It seemed in consistent. Drove well at full throttle.

Cheers,
Rob

Rob, I see your point and totally agree with around throttle modulation with the OTS maps for both the Procede and Cobb, especially with an LSD. I can see my Procede being a bit more of a handul on an AutoX/Road Course for a newb driver like myself.

Honestly I am not the most skilled driver nor do I track on a regular basis and the few times I have gone on the track, I used a car with A LOT less power. I am an enthusiast that enjoys the freeway onramps

[CaptainInsano]

Originally Posted by mithiral67

Good write up.

And Captain, I think safety is a non-factor between piggies and flashes. Both methods have proven to be very safe, regardless of the method of tuning.

I'll agree with you there. It's just a general argument people use when talking about flashes vs piggies. The N54 tuning solutions are all rock solid.

[nafoo]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

The Baseline aggressive maps have virtually the same ign advance targets as all the Cobb aggressive logs I've seen. The differences in response comes primarily from throttle/boost control.

And if anyone thinks the sky is the limit on custom dme programming hasn't tried to make a max power tune yet. Have we even seem any Cobb tuned RB cars that are making anything close to the power we have seen them make with other tunes? I tuned dzennos car to 500whp last year. Is he making anything close to that now? I'm not trying to start an argument. Just looking for actual data.

"www.vishnutuning.com
All the Twin and Single turbo E9X World Records (1/4 mile, 1/2 mile, 60-130mph, 100-200kph, Dyno, etc,."

Care to elaborate on your signature? Seems like it could be deceptive since "all" and "etc." are overly encompassing.

It would be terrible if someone relied on your signature and it turned out to be false, misleading and/or deceptive and that your product wasn't of a particular standard, quality, or grade that you are representing them to be or that you failed to disclose information about your products that were known at the time of the transaction with the intention to induce someone into a transaction that he/she would not have entered into had the information been disclosed.

[joec500]

Originally Posted by nafoo

"www.vishnutuning.com
All the Twin and Single turbo E9X World Records (1/4 mile, 1/2 mile, 60-130mph, 100-200kph, Dyno, etc,."

Care to elaborate on your signature? Seems like it could be deceptive since "all" and "etc." are overly encompassing.

It would be terrible if someone relied on your signature and it turned out to be false, misleading and/or deceptive and that your product wasn't of a particular standard, quality, or grade that you are representing them to be or that you failed to disclose information about your products that were known at the time of the transaction with the intention to induce someone into a transaction that he/she would not have entered into had the information been disclosed.

Oh geez

[gboop]

Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb

Thanks for the review. It's incredibly important to get feedback for us.

I think Shiv is right, it's constant spooling the turbos even on the smallest tip-in that makes the in your face aggressive response. It's too much for me as I find it hard to modulate the throttle making the non-LSD car snap too easily. I'm an autocross/track guy who likes a nice linear throttle. It seems like the piggie has a hard time blending the part throttle with the full throttle. It seemed in consistent. Drove well at full throttle.

Cheers,
Rob

I completely disagree with above.
My COBB is gone as well, and I am much happier with Procede.

The Procede is the only tune I've tried so far that retains the BMW feel.
COBB still feels like a tune and you miss the stock driving feel.
With Procede I don't miss the stock throttle mapping one bit, and boost is relative to throttle position.

With COBB even LT maps were lumpy and not truly linear (boost came on in lumpy stages and eventually WOT at about 60% pedal travel).
From my exchanges with COBB I understood that my car has pretty stiff wastegates and pro tuning would have probably resolved some of the lumpiness.
My choice was between a $300+ pro tune, or $495 Procede SE 2.5 that I can resell. No brainer.

Not to mention the 19+ PSI boost spikes that still remained after 4.02 update.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb

Thanks for the review. It's incredibly important to get feedback for us.

I think Shiv is right, it's constant spooling the turbos even on the smallest tip-in that makes the in your face aggressive response. It's too much for me as I find it hard to modulate the throttle making the non-LSD car snap too easily. I'm an autocross/track guy who likes a nice linear throttle. It seems like the piggie has a hard time blending the part throttle with the full throttle. It seemed in consistent. Drove well at full throttle.

Cheers,
Rob

Rob- with all due respect, have you ever done any throttle:boost logging with the Procede? It's far more linear and consistent than any other platform ive tested. Especially compared to flash tunes that, by comparison, have to reduce PID gain excessively to prevent boost oscillation. This would be a great tech discussion if you are will to participate in posting logs of various channels. I'll do the same and we can compare. I've also been roadracing/coaching for over a decade and know the benefit of having a linear relationship between applied throttle and load target.

@captaininsano-- your car just made 657whp on the dynojet running 50:50 e85/91oct and meth. Without meth, it put down 601whp at just 21psi. Day 2 of single turbo e85 testing starts tomorrow. Thank you for kindly volunteering your car

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by nafoo

"www.vishnutuning.com
All the Twin and Single turbo E9X World Records (1/4 mile, 1/2 mile, 60-130mph, 100-200kph, Dyno, etc,."

Care to elaborate on your signature? Seems like it could be deceptive since "all" and "etc." are overly encompassing.

It would be terrible if someone relied on your signature and it turned out to be false, misleading and/or deceptive and that your product wasn't of a particular standard, quality, or grade that you are representing them to be or that you failed to disclose information about your products that were known at the time of the transaction with the intention to induce someone into a transaction that he/she would not have entered into had the information been disclosed.

.
.
.

[themyst]

If you want that procede part throttle feel, the v402 stock throttle maps will get you there.

I also prefer this throttle mapping myself, so all my custom tuning is based on it.

[Laguna Seca Blue]

Interesting discussion. The linear throttle mapping is one reason I love my PROcede. I too don't miss the stock feel at all. I've never tried anything else, but a couple of weeks ago one of guys running a Cobb in our group spun out on a straight and luckily avoided hitting the concerete barrier. Granted his DSC system had failed, but when we were discussing the incident later, he said one thing he missed about his car in stock form was the ability to module the throttle 100% linearly.

[nafoo]

I prefer the stock mapping on Cobb too. Maybe because I have a LSD and 6MT. 3k roll in 2nd = nothing but wheel spin, which is kind of fun

Also, I'm really lazy while cruising around town and shift as little as possible. Pulling on cars at highway speeds without downshifting from 6th is a blast too.

[Rob@Cobb]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Rob- with all due respect, have you ever done any throttle:boost logging with the Procede? It's far more linear and consistent than any other platform ive tested. Especially compared to flash tunes that, by comparison, have to reduce PID gain excessively to prevent boost oscillation. This would be a great tech discussion if you are will to participate in posting logs of various channels. I'll do the same and we can compare. I've also been roadracing/coaching for over a decade and know the benefit of having a linear relationship between applied throttle and load target.

I have not logged the transition points that felt disjointed. As I mentioned the car felt great most of the time, it was the odd transitioning hiccups that I am speaking of and the aggressive throttle. Almost like the piggie goes out of sync with the ECU for a little bit. To be able to catch something of that nature we would need to log what the ECU was trying and the piggie at the same time.

I don't have much interest discussion/debate here that will likely be spun in so many directions that it will be useless. It's a lose lose where I end up wishing for my night back.

Cheers,
Rob