[TT3 iN NyC]

Even with PROcede OL fueling set to 100. Data log attached.

I'm going to upload a map that Wedge made for me (thanks!) which adds more fuel where its maxing out.

I wanted to get a 2nd opinion on how the car is running other than maxing fuel trims.

Appreciate the input

Thanks!

[TT3 iN NyC]

Anyone?

[Bme30]

Originally Posted by TT3 iN NyC

Anyone?

take a screen shot of your log it might be easier..

[Ilma]

Here is your datalog:

Fuel trims are high at WOT onset but not maxed out. They do recover and stabilize and you are hitting your AFR targets, so I don't see a big issue with trims.

Your timing on the other hand is showing knock reactions and a post-shift flatline.
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[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

^ correct fuel trims are OK.

[JamesM3M5]

Why still +25% with 100 OL setting? How many miles on your car? Other mods? Sounds like an underlying problem, only being band-aided by the tune change.

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by JamesM3M5

Why still +25% with 100 OL setting? How many miles on your car? Other mods? Sounds like an underlying problem, only being band-aided by the tune change.

Because he is hitting 16.7 psi at WOT onset and not running any meth

[JamesM3M5]

I've installed and logged several Procedes over the past couple months, and never seen such high trims. I've only adjusted up at most to 83, none of those cars have meth.

[TT3 iN NyC]

Originally Posted by JamesM3M5

Why still +25% with 100 OL setting? How many miles on your car? Other mods? Sounds like an underlying problem, only being band-aided by the tune change.

Hi all,

Thanks for the responses.

I have 27k miles. I had spark plugs changed about 3 months ago. Did an intake valve cleaning about 2 weeks ago.

I'm FBO no meth. AR dp's, Stett CAI, ETS FMIC 5 inch, Vanguard exhaust, PROcede rev 2.5 running stage 3 maps.

What can I do to fix whatever issue is present? Not too familiar with this stuff.

Appreciate the help.

[sickem]

Originally Posted by TT3 iN NyC

Hi all,

Thanks for the responses.

I have 27k miles. I had spark plugs changed about 3 months ago. Did an intake valve cleaning about 2 weeks ago.

I'm FBO no meth. AR dp's, Stett CAI, ETS FMIC 5 inch, Vanguard exhaust, PROcede rev 2.5 running stage 3 maps.

What can I do to fix whatever issue is present? Not too familiar with this stuff.

Appreciate the help.

Did your car qualify for the injector recall? I'm no expert but some of my logs had a slight timing drop around 4800 rpm's and someone suggested that it could be the injectors.

[TT3 iN NyC]

I'm not sure. I did have the fuel pump replaced last year. I wasn't having any issues with it but dealer replaced it when I took it in for a final oil change.

[OpenFlash]

Depending of conditions and fuel formulations, seeing high trims at 16+ of boost in the midrange is certainly possible. One easy way to bring them down to zero is to update your dme with a ProceseFlash. But in this case, judging by that one datalog, the tune looks to be a bit aggressive anyway. Perhaps these summer temps are a bit too much for your octane.

[TT3 iN NyC]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Depending of conditions and fuel formulations, seeing high trims at 16+ of boost in the midrange is certainly possible. One easy way to bring them down to zero is to update your dme with a ProceseFlash. But in this case, judging by that one datalog, the tune looks to be a bit aggressive anyway. Perhaps these summer temps are a bit too much for your octane.

It has been hot and humid here. I only use 93 octane.

What do you suggest I do to fix the timing flatline? Downgrade to stage 2?

What are the consequences of timing flatline?

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by JamesM3M5

I've installed and logged several Procedes over the past couple months, and never seen such high trims. I've only adjusted up at most to 83, none of those cars have meth.

What value do you see for trims at WOT or post shift?

Here is mine running OL=85 and meth......notice the high trim value post-shift?

If I lower my trims then my timing starts to drop post shift....which is kind of weird but this setup works for my car pretty consistently.

I can show you logs with lower trims.....but I always get post shift timing drops with those lower trims. Must be some kind of interaction between the tune and the DME over fueling IMHO. I suspect that with the higher trims I am probably delivering more overall meth content into the fuel mix hitting the combustion chamber....thus the nicer timing.



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[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by TT3 iN NyC

It has been hot and humid here. I only use 93 octane.

What do you suggest I do to fix the timing flatline? Downgrade to stage 2?

What are the consequences of timing flatline?

Dropping down to stg2 would be a good place to start. Or you can simply keep running the same map and just drop your boost setting a bit. Other than running higher octane, e85 or meth, dropping boost is the only viable approach.
By no means are your current settings unsafe as some amount of knock retard/post shift retard is to be expected in hot conditions. With that in mind, it's equally undesirable to drop boost so much as to never see any knock retard activity on pump gas alone. It's only when running meth and e85 should one be more of a knock retard hypochondriac.

[TT3 iN NyC]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Dropping down to stg2 would be a good place to start. Or you can simply keep running the same map and just drop your boost setting a bit. Other than running higher octane, e85 or meth, dropping boost is the only viable approach.
By no means are your current settings unsafe as some amount of knock retard/post shift retard is to be expected in hot conditions. With that in mind, it's equally undesirable to drop boost so much as to never see any knock retard activity on pump gas alone. It's only when running meth and e85 should one be more of a knock retard hypochondriac.

Thanks Shiv.

What is a safe boost limit at this point?

Which values should I choose for Overboost limit/start boost? How so i lower boost in the user adjustable settings?

Apologies in advance for being ignorant as I've never really had to adjust those values until now.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by TT3 iN NyC

It's funny that you mention this. I put that log in the virtual dyno and it generated only about 375whp. I was expecting somewhere near 400whp being that the car is FBO

Don't even bother with virtual logs as they aren't nominally accurate or comparable with Dynojets. Too many external variables effect the results. If you want a dyno result, you will have to go to a dyno. Also, post shift timing retard has no effect on single gear dyno results.

Regarding your user settings, there is no need to change overboost limits as they do not have an effect on the tune itself. I suggest dropping your boost setting by 5% and retesting. Just make sure you retest in conditions similar to how you drive (ie, not back to back runs with no cooldown). You can make the most stable of pump gas tunes look unstable by testing in unrealistic conditions.

[TT3 iN NyC]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Don't even bother with virtual logs as they aren't nominally accurate or comparable with Dynojets. Too many external variables effect the results. If you want a dyno result, you will have to go to a dyno. Also, post shift timing retard has no effect on single gear dyno results.

Regarding your user settings, there is no need to change overboost limits as they do not have an effect on the tune itself. I suggest dropping your boost setting by 5% and retesting. Just make sure you retest in conditions similar to how you drive (ie, not back to back runs with no cooldown). You can make the most stable of pump gas tunes look unstable by testing in unrealistic conditions.

Thanks for the quick response Shiv. I'll decrease the start boost to 35 and log again.

I appreciate your advice. Hope you're having a great time on vacation. Get home safe.

Cheers!

[JamesM3M5]

Vacation? I thought he was busting his hump doing turbos and tuning? Oh, well I guess there was some "monkeying" around, too.

Anyway, high trims with FBO is a different story. I did not notice the boost level, and when you said you're modified (mods not in your signature) the higher trims make sense. I was comparing relatively unmodified setups and trims. My bad.

Ilma, also good info on the trims/post shift performance. Once I get some more mods (saving for a diff right now, more power is worthless when the traction light blinks incessantly or you just blow the rear tires off) I'll keep that info in mind.

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by JamesM3M5

Anyway, high trims with FBO is a different story. I did not notice the boost level, and when you said you're modified (mods not in your signature) the higher trims make sense. I was comparing relatively unmodified setups and trims. My bad.

Ilma, also good info on the trims/post shift performance. Once I get some more mods (saving for a diff right now, more power is worthless when the traction light blinks incessantly or you just blow the rear tires off) I'll keep that info in mind.

I had posted more of my settngs in this thread last night, but my post got deleted as collateral damage to a pissing contest between Myst and Shiv.

Thanks to the moderators for including innocent bystanders

So for a second time here is what I found works for me to get rid of post-shift timing drops:

- Swapped out the dual 1.0mm nozzles to 1.2mm

-Ran a 70-30 mix of meth/water. The water content definitely helps cool the combustion chamber. When I tried 100% meth my timing got worse from the additional power and heat.

-Keep boost high so that it grabs more meth on the way to the engine thus increasing relative percentage of meth to fuel

- Keep fuel trims fairy high at onset but settling in between 10-20% once stabilized. If I used more than OL=85 my trims become lower, but timing becomes less consistent post shift. Not sure why that is exactly

I am FBO except for stock muffler. I just recently installed AR downpipes and thought it would help resolve the timing drops.....but no effect at all.

So that just reinforces that I think the DME is reacting to something relating to fueling on the 3rd-4th shift. As you know, trims and AFR's and load go all wonky between shifts.


Here is the only caveat.......with the amount of additional flow from dual 1.2mm nozzles, the car felt like it was bogging slightly at lower rpms.

Thank god the procede has a user table for meth duty cycles, as I was able to easily lower and dial in the meth flow at lower rpms and everthing feels seamless now.

I find it ironic that some of the original critics of the Vishnu PWM system are now advocating the Aquatmist HSF4 as the meth kit of choice....when the PWM kit is based on the very same Aquamist components.

[TT3 iN NyC]

Thank you all for the responses.

Lol @ piss contest! Lol

I'm going to lower the boost to see if it helps in this warm weather.

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by TT3 iN NyC

Thank you all for the responses.

Lol @ piss contest! Lol

I'm going to lower the boost to see if it helps in this warm weather.

If it helps at all - before I got meth I could only run around 12-13 psi in hot weather without timing issues.

And that was on Sunoco 94 octane