Z4 premium sound has NASTY DSP latency.

Waldorf · 07-18-2007, 03:15 PM

I finally found what was pissing me off with the premium sound system in my brand new M Coupe.

the system relies on a multi-channel DSP that takes on crossover duties and the rears (or just the subs) have over 20ms output latency.

the result are awful, muddy lows and subs that makes it sound like blown speakers. the only way to counter this effect is to blast it so loud that the rears take over and the bass from the front is not competing anymore.

this means that i can never put any background music. it's unbearable.

some aftermarket head units have latency correction functionality, does anyone know of any standalone correction units that i could simply put inline to keep the oem components?

my only other resort would be to ditch the oem amplifier for a high quality multichannel unit with some active crossovers and rewire all the speakers using only a stereo pair for input signal into the amplifier.

i can't believe BMW signed off on such a ridiculous flaw.

chaforjohn · 07-20-2007, 01:23 AM

You can use a JL cleansweep, RF Sixty, or Alpine...

Waldorf · 07-20-2007, 02:15 AM

thanks, i'll look into that

Caddyshk · 07-20-2007, 07:00 AM

I can't hear the stereo over the exhaust anyway

Waldorf · 08-13-2007, 01:10 PM

really? i can still kill the Eisenmann with the stock radio.

which brings me back to the topic at hand.

I discovered that, when you crank the sound to an unbearable volume, the bass from the back overpowers the front and the delay is less apparent. it's still not a solution for bad design.

that being said. it's a sports car so i'll forget about that.

chaforjohn · 08-21-2007, 11:30 PM

I just wanted to say that I recently replaced the sound system in my m coupe - and it was by far one of the most time consuming projects i've undertaken. I'm a fairly experienced audio nut, and it took about 12 hours total (for a first time) to install:
figuring how to disassemble the car's panels
new headunit,
new 3 way components up front,
amp,
sub,
remove factory amp,
determine stock wiring locations using a AA battery (for test tones)
putting everything back together!

The audio is beautiful now, but I don't think i'd do it again.

Waldorf · 08-22-2007, 09:42 AM

so, did you keep all of the original wiring?

BimmerZealot · 08-30-2007, 04:14 PM

The funny thing is if you read the manual and such they have all this documentation about them working closely with THX and it being the first car certified by THX technicians to have like wonderful sound. Quite frankly the DSP imo is useless it's always off i have yet to use it for longer then 5 seconds. I dont understand how they can call three DSP settings: concert, jazz, church "premium sound" the church DSP merely causes a lot of echo and apparently thats "better sound"? It's a bunch of crap to me, I'll take the standard one any day, besides now my icelink will be 90$ more. Wonderful

chaforjohn · 09-07-2007, 12:52 AM

yeah, unfortunately I kept the stock wiring in - they were a decent gauge, like 14 or 16, the music sounds great, so no complaints here...

Waldorf · 09-07-2007, 07:45 AM

Do you think that I could replace the original amplifier with a 4ch to drive the whole thing?

If not, then one 2ch for bass and one 4ch for the front.

i still have some Alpine V12 amps laying around.

chaforjohn · 09-08-2007, 02:22 AM

I'm using a 4 channel now to power my system, but I did unhook the woofers and 4" behind the seats...

150 x 2 front, 400 x 1 (bridged) rear for sub

I say if you have a great front stage, go with the single 4 ch setup, bridge rear. If you want to use all speakers, then get a 4ch and 2 ch.

Your V12 amps should be great

- only concern is the V12 4ch, might not be enough power for the 3 way components...

ricerx1 · 09-10-2007, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waldorf

Do you think that I could replace the original amplifier with a 4ch to drive the whole thing?

If not, then one 2ch for bass and one 4ch for the front.

i still have some Alpine V12 amps laying around.

Yea you can thats what I did.
I used 2ch to drive my front which i changed to a 3 way focal utopia set up. And the remaining 2ch to drive jl 6w0 subs.
disabled the rear 4" rear fill speakers.
Retained the stock headunit steering wheel controls and bluetooth.

It sounds much better.

And you cant tell once the carpet is back in, that is till you turn the radio on.

Waldorf · 10-01-2007, 06:38 PM

look like i'll be doing this soon.

did you take note of the color coding used for the wires to the rear?

ricerx1 · 10-01-2007, 06:56 PM

Nope but it was pretty easy to tell. I used a AA 1.5 volt battery. All the speaker wires are twisted pair. Just cut and tap the ends to the battery and note which speakers make a popping noise. The thicker ones goes to the subs and the front kick panel speakers. and theres 1 pair of black ones thats the audio out from the bluetooth.

155MPH · 10-01-2007, 07:01 PM

DSP in mine sounds like crap. I leave it off. But without it the sound is fine for me. I am half deaf anyway.

unionjack · 10-11-2007, 07:38 PM

DSP is junk, no doubt.

07-18-2007, 03:15 PM	#1
Waldorf Black Opps field agent 35 Rep 449 Posts Drives: 135i M Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: YUL iTrader: (1) Garage List 2006 Z4 M Coupe [7.75] 2007 Ducati Monster ... [0.00]	Z4 premium sound has NASTY DSP latency. I finally found what was pissing me off with the premium sound system in my brand new M Coupe. the system relies on a multi-channel DSP that takes on crossover duties and the rears (or just the subs) have over 20ms output latency. the result are awful, muddy lows and subs that makes it sound like blown speakers. the only way to counter this effect is to blast it so loud that the rears take over and the bass from the front is not competing anymore. this means that i can never put any background music. it's unbearable. some aftermarket head units have latency correction functionality, does anyone know of any standalone correction units that i could simply put inline to keep the oem components? my only other resort would be to ditch the oem amplifier for a high quality multichannel unit with some active crossovers and rewire all the speakers using only a stereo pair for input signal into the amplifier. i can't believe BMW signed off on such a ridiculous flaw. __________________ ------------------- :rocks: Montreal to Vermont OktoberFast cruise. :rocks: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79557
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07-20-2007, 01:23 AM	#2
chaforjohn Private First Class 10 Rep 108 Posts Drives: 2006 Black M Coupe Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Irvine, CA iTrader: (0)	You can use a JL cleansweep, RF Sixty, or Alpine...
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07-20-2007, 02:15 AM	#3
Waldorf Black Opps field agent 35 Rep 449 Posts Drives: 135i M Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: YUL iTrader: (1) Garage List 2006 Z4 M Coupe [7.75] 2007 Ducati Monster ... [0.00]	thanks, i'll look into that __________________ ------------------- :rocks: Montreal to Vermont OktoberFast cruise. :rocks: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79557
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07-20-2007, 07:00 AM	#4
Caddyshk M = Midlife Crisis 65 Rep 2,006 Posts Drives: 2006 Z4MC Interlagos Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fort Erie, Ontario, Canada iTrader: (0)	I can't hear the stereo over the exhaust anyway __________________ 2006 Z4MC - #LL93158 SS Race Cans, RE X Pipe, DKF Sec 1, Fabspeed Headers, OE STB, AS Shifter, Dave Z CDV, GC Coil Overs, Stoptech lines, Hawk DTC Pads, RE Clutch Stop, RE Transmission Mounts, Vibra-Technics Engine Mounts, Poly FCAB & RTAB, LeatherZ M Shift Boot, Tekarbon Rear Spoiler, CF Grills, Advan RS DGM
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08-13-2007, 01:10 PM	#5
Waldorf Black Opps field agent 35 Rep 449 Posts Drives: 135i M Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: YUL iTrader: (1) Garage List 2006 Z4 M Coupe [7.75] 2007 Ducati Monster ... [0.00]	really? i can still kill the Eisenmann with the stock radio. which brings me back to the topic at hand. I discovered that, when you crank the sound to an unbearable volume, the bass from the back overpowers the front and the delay is less apparent. it's still not a solution for bad design. that being said. it's a sports car so i'll forget about that. __________________ ------------------- :rocks: Montreal to Vermont OktoberFast cruise. :rocks: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79557
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08-21-2007, 11:30 PM	#6
chaforjohn Private First Class 10 Rep 108 Posts Drives: 2006 Black M Coupe Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Irvine, CA iTrader: (0)	I just wanted to say that I recently replaced the sound system in my m coupe - and it was by far one of the most time consuming projects i've undertaken. I'm a fairly experienced audio nut, and it took about 12 hours total (for a first time) to install: figuring how to disassemble the car's panels new headunit, new 3 way components up front, amp, sub, remove factory amp, determine stock wiring locations using a AA battery (for test tones) putting everything back together! The audio is beautiful now, but I don't think i'd do it again.
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08-22-2007, 09:42 AM	#7
Waldorf Black Opps field agent 35 Rep 449 Posts Drives: 135i M Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: YUL iTrader: (1) Garage List 2006 Z4 M Coupe [7.75] 2007 Ducati Monster ... [0.00]	so, did you keep all of the original wiring? __________________ ------------------- :rocks: Montreal to Vermont OktoberFast cruise. :rocks: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79557
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08-30-2007, 04:14 PM	#8
BimmerZealot Major 61 Rep 1,210 Posts Drives: 2019 BMW X3 xDrive30i Join Date: May 2007 Location: San Diego, California iTrader: (2)	The funny thing is if you read the manual and such they have all this documentation about them working closely with THX and it being the first car certified by THX technicians to have like wonderful sound. Quite frankly the DSP imo is useless it's always off i have yet to use it for longer then 5 seconds. I dont understand how they can call three DSP settings: concert, jazz, church "premium sound" the church DSP merely causes a lot of echo and apparently thats "better sound"? It's a bunch of crap to me, I'll take the standard one any day, besides now my icelink will be 90$ more. Wonderful
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09-07-2007, 12:52 AM	#9
chaforjohn Private First Class 10 Rep 108 Posts Drives: 2006 Black M Coupe Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Irvine, CA iTrader: (0)	yeah, unfortunately I kept the stock wiring in - they were a decent gauge, like 14 or 16, the music sounds great, so no complaints here...
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09-07-2007, 07:45 AM	#10
Waldorf Black Opps field agent 35 Rep 449 Posts Drives: 135i M Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: YUL iTrader: (1) Garage List 2006 Z4 M Coupe [7.75] 2007 Ducati Monster ... [0.00]	Do you think that I could replace the original amplifier with a 4ch to drive the whole thing? If not, then one 2ch for bass and one 4ch for the front. i still have some Alpine V12 amps laying around. __________________ ------------------- :rocks: Montreal to Vermont OktoberFast cruise. :rocks: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79557
	Appreciate 0 Quote

09-08-2007, 02:22 AM	#11
chaforjohn Private First Class 10 Rep 108 Posts Drives: 2006 Black M Coupe Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Irvine, CA iTrader: (0)	I'm using a 4 channel now to power my system, but I did unhook the woofers and 4" behind the seats... 150 x 2 front, 400 x 1 (bridged) rear for sub I say if you have a great front stage, go with the single 4 ch setup, bridge rear. If you want to use all speakers, then get a 4ch and 2 ch. Your V12 amps should be great - only concern is the V12 4ch, might not be enough power for the 3 way components...
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10-01-2007, 06:38 PM	#13
Waldorf Black Opps field agent 35 Rep 449 Posts Drives: 135i M Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: YUL iTrader: (1) Garage List 2006 Z4 M Coupe [7.75] 2007 Ducati Monster ... [0.00]	look like i'll be doing this soon. did you take note of the color coding used for the wires to the rear? __________________ ------------------- :rocks: Montreal to Vermont OktoberFast cruise. :rocks: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79557
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10-01-2007, 06:56 PM	#14
ricerx1 Second Lieutenant 64 Rep 291 Posts Drives: 2016 M4 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Tustin, CA iTrader: (3)	Nope but it was pretty easy to tell. I used a AA 1.5 volt battery. All the speaker wires are twisted pair. Just cut and tap the ends to the battery and note which speakers make a popping noise. The thicker ones goes to the subs and the front kick panel speakers. and theres 1 pair of black ones thats the audio out from the bluetooth.
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10-01-2007, 07:01 PM	#15
155MPH Major 61 Rep 1,379 Posts Drives: E89 Z4 sDrive28i M Performance Join Date: May 2007 Location: South Jersey Shore iTrader: (0) Garage List 2019 BMW xDrive430i ... [0.00] 2014 BMW Z4 sDrive2 ... [5.00]	DSP in mine sounds like crap. I leave it off. But without it the sound is fine for me. I am half deaf anyway.
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10-11-2007, 07:38 PM	#16
unionjack Conceited Prick 14 Rep 105 Posts Drives: Z4 M Coupe previously Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: San Antonio, TX iTrader: (2) Garage List 2007 Z4 M Coupe [0.00]	DSP is junk, no doubt. __________________ previously AW/IR \| Premium Package \| Heated Seats \| Navigation \| Valentine One \| Shorty Antenna \| Black Kidney Surrounds
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