WTF: C&D picks the F10 M5 last, top spot goes to Audi S6, MB E63 AMG second

[///M1]

Perhaps some of you have seen this already, but time again to question my subscription to some US rags...

Audi may just as well place the RS 6 on hold, seems no need for it

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...ts?redirect=no

[Falcao]

The good thing about tests is everyone is doing them. I guess the numerous other tests does not count where the M5 was picked over Panamera Turbo and E63 PP. For every 3-4 test where the M5 is picked over competitors, there is one test just like this one.

Sure, run your S6 with M5 F10 on the highway and see what happens
Better yet, hold the press, i am cancelling my M5 F10 order for S6

[stealth.pilot]

That review has no merit. I am canceling my C&D subscription.

[uhn2000]

Bah whatever.. everyone's got an opinion ..

[DrKevM5]

Damn...I always valued their evaluations. Was the M5 in limp home mode?!! Who did the test, David E. Davis (R.I.P.)?

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by DrKevM5

Damn...I always valued their evaluations. Was the M5 in limp home mode?!! Who did the test, David E. Davis (R.I.P.)?

I hear the review was written by their advertising sales account lead for Audi.

[///M1]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

I hear the review was written by their advertising sales account lead for Audi.

Hit nail on head. That's the problem with most US rags, they simply get blinded by what sponsors are paying and reviews are curtailed that way often.

One reason why Edmunds 'spun off' Inside Line and wanted to make it appear as a standalone company. A friend worked for them, Lexus refused to give them test/corporate fleet cars after they wrote an objective review which was non-complementary of a Lexus model...

[danielt]

one common criticism cited by quite a lot of magazine reviews (and in this article ... which appears to have disappeared) as well as members with M5's on this forum is the lack of brake "bite"

[04S]

That is correct. It is quite a different feeling set of M brakes. It was a bit disconcerting at first, but I did a few emergency stops from 100 ks and I can assure you the brakes perform, and i didnt get any fade whatsoever. You just need to give the pedal more of a shove than on an M3 for example.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

I hear the review was written by their advertising sales account lead for Audi.

Yup.

C&D is completely in Audi's pocket. And I don't say that because I am some "fanboi". I've been a C&D subscriber since 1989, and they were always a BMW apologist, even before I was a BMW fan. Sometime about 3 years ago, they swapped. Now every Audi product gets rated above the equivalent BMW product, deserving or not. Not saying that these three cars aren't great, and that picking a "winner" isn't completely splitting hairs. However about the time that C&D did their hideous "mustard and ketchup" makeover, they started writing like a bunch of sophomoric jerks. Each article contains more and more teen-appealing pop-culture references and bathroom humor. Pathetic. A couple of months ago, John Philips entire column was about how he spent the entire Detroit auto show drinking free martinis and getting hammered. In Michael Karesh' review of the new Altima on The Truth About Cars, he mentions one of the major mags jurnos was so loaded, he didn't show up to drive the car and security found him passed out in his bedroom. John Philips gets my guess.

Long way of saying that I really no longer care what C&D has to say. Same way with Automobile and Motor Trend. TTAC and Inside Line offer the least bias, and those I trust.

Again, all three of these cars are great, same as the cooking versions. Each of them is a winner in their own right, and which one appeals to you is pretty much a personal choice.

[ucla95]

Hard to argue that the Audi's interior doesn't smoke the M5's. And their navi interface is much better (spent a lot of time with both). But still seems to me like I'd want the M5 or E63 over the S6/7 on a track and that's really what counts imho.

The 'bumpiness' comments do concern me however.

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by ucla95

Hard to argue that the Audi's interior doesn't smoke the M5's. And their navi interface is much better (spent a lot of time with both). But still seems to me like I'd want the M5 or E63 over the S6/7 on a track and that's really what counts imho.

The 'bumpiness' comments do concern me however.

The Audi's interior is cheap. There is loads of plastic. Even the dash is plastic. The BMW's dash is leather if you have full leather. BMW's seats are more adjustable. The Audi interior is basically a spruced up cheapo interior.

[SleepTight]

Yet in the same issue they test a BMW M6 convertible. Same brakes, same steering, essentially identical suspension and the M6 'vert is more than two hundred pounds heavier:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...le-test-review

You might already know that the M6’s close sibling, the M5 sedan, has hydraulic steering, too. Both cars share a 560-hp, 4.4-liter twin-turbo V-8 that employs the M division’s trick manifold that evenly spaces out exhaust pulses. Both convert engine rpm to tire rotation through a seven-speed dual-clutch automatic. (We’ve been promised a six-speed manual for the U.S.-market M5; fitting that transmission to the M6 is “possible,” we’re told, but not confirmed.) Both have launch-control programs, fuel-saving engine stop-start systems, adjustable throttle and damper settings, and so on. One key area in which the two differ—vastly—is steering feel. The M6 has it, the M5 largely doesn’t. Another puzzle.

The head-scratching continues when you consider the M6’s brakes and suspension. In an upcoming comparison test, you’ll read about the M5’s weak brake bite and its ride quality, which suffers from excessive up-and-down motion. Perhaps the difference can be chalked up to the German roads we traversed in the M5 versus the South Carolina byways outside BMW’s Spartanburg assembly plant (it also acts as a port of entry for German-built models such as the M6). Or maybe the fact that the M6 was driven solo, without comparison-test rivals to chisel out its faults. Whatever the case, the M6 convertible’s brakes are sharp and its ride motions restrained.

If I were BMW, I'd be pulling the C&D M5 test vehicle apart right now.

[ucla95]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

The Audi's interior is cheap. There is loads of plastic. Even the dash is plastic. The BMW's dash is leather if you have full leather. BMW's seats are more adjustable. The Audi interior is basically a spruced up cheapo interior.

I've spent about 10 minutes in the S7 (at an auto show) - and I'm pretty sure it was a leather dash just like an M5 (and you can also get an M5 with a plastic dash - so you can't say the M5 trumps the S6/7 in that regard). Plus the quilted seats were fantastic. BMWs seats are a touch more adjustable true.

Look I prefer the m5, but I think most unbiased reviewers would pick the Audi's interior and Nav technology over the M5.

[ucla95]

Originally Posted by SleepTight

If I were BMW, I'd be pulling the C&D M5 test vehicle apart right now.

+1000

Or we need the BMW insider (Scott...) on here to tell us that the tuning on the M6 is purposely different than on the M5 (which would be a problem for me).

[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by ucla95

I've spent about 10 minutes in the S7 (at an auto show) - and I'm pretty sure it was a leather dash just like an M5 (and you can also get an M5 with a plastic dash - so you can't say the M5 trumps the S6/7 in that regard). Plus the quilted seats were fantastic. BMWs seats are a touch more adjustable true.

Look I prefer the m5, but I think most unbiased reviewers would pick the Audi's interior and Nav technology over the M5.

I disagree with that. I drove a Lexus a year ago, so I consider myself objective when it comes to German brands, and BMWs interior quality eclipses Audi's by a large margin. Audi uses almost as much plastic as Acura.

[Fester]

Thanks for sharing...this's a ridiculous article though...no comparison with S6...M5 is a different league...

[ucla95]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

Audi uses almost as much plastic as Acura.

I agree on their mainline cars. But sit in a new S6/7 first and then let me know what you think. The S7 I sat in had a MUCH MUCH nicer interior than the A6/7.

[Subway35]

It looks like C&D has already deleted that M5,S6,E63 Comparison Review on their website(404 error to me).
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews

[hakaida442]

Originally Posted by ucla95

Hard to argue that the Audi's interior doesn't smoke the M5's. And their navi interface is much better (spent a lot of time with both). But still seems to me like I'd want the M5 or E63 over the S6/7 on a track and that's really what counts imho.

The 'bumpiness' comments do concern me however.

While sporty, none of these cars are cars that I would enjoy at the track.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by ucla95

I agree on their mainline cars. But sit in a new S6/7 first and then let me know what you think. The S7 I sat in had a MUCH MUCH nicer interior than the A6/7.

Not really.

I was expecting to think this. After spending 10 minutes in it at the auto show, I was completely underwhelmed.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by MERCSUk153

Come on just because the Audi win you guys say C&D is favouring Audi?
C&D editors own more BMW's than Audi's, and they have been favouring BMW for years but in those years you guys don't say BMW is paying C&D?
Look C&D just did a review of the entry level luxury cars and the 328i came first.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mw-328i-page-6

So what is C&D getting paid by article/car?

Most of you haven't even set eyes on a S6 and most likely none of you have even driven the new S6 yet but you guys all are already saying this is impossible and that C&D is biased.

Maybe it is you guys who haven't even driven one and saying impossible are the ones who are biased.



While the new 5er interior is really nice, but to say the S6 interior is cheapo is just you being biased.

Yeah, they did. But they are BMW romanticists.

They cannot stand where BMW is headed now, much like many on this and other BMW websites. And it shows. They are far from objective in their reviews. How do you explain that the M6 is so much "better" in ride and handling than the M5 in the same article? Oh yeah, it didn't have to finish last against an Audi.

Also, as posted above, I HAVE sat in an S6. Completely underwhelmed. Only real difference between it and an A6 is the seats, but there's still just as much plastic, etc.

Sorry you don't think I'm objective, but honestly, that's fine by me. I happen to think that the A6 is a fine car, and dynamically the equal to the F10. Same as the GS 350. But I don't want to drive either of them for a reason.