missing injector o-rings = new cylinder head?

NoQuarter · 05-24-2012, 08:27 PM

All 6 six injectors were installed by a dealer without the o-rings.

What does the damage to the cylinder head look like when this happens and what sort of diagnosis routine would a tech follow to declare the cylinder head should be replaced or not?

E90SoFlo · 05-24-2012, 08:31 PM

I would take it back to the dealer and tell them you want a new motor.

Ilma · 05-24-2012, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoQuarter

All 6 six injectors were installed by a dealer without the o-rings.

What does the damage to the cylinder head look like when this happens and what sort of diagnosis routine would a tech follow to declare the cylinder head should be replaced or not?

Do you mean the "decoupling elements" or the rubber o-rings that go on the tip of the injector?

Pretty sure the rubber ones are the ones that seal.

NoQuarter · 05-24-2012, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilma

Do you mean the "decoupling elements" or the rubber o-rings that go on the tip of the injector?

Pretty sure the rubber ones are the ones that seal.

not sure because I didn't get to see it. My dealer said all six were installed missing something and therefore the cylinder head needed to be replaced. The dealer that made the mistake wants to look at it of course and I suspect will declare the cylinder head is fine. I am just wanting to understand more about what a tech would look at to make a decision either way.

MilehighM3 · 05-24-2012, 11:06 PM

Soot or exhaust residue around the injector. Probably the decoupling elements that were missing since the car wouldn't run long without the injector teflon seals that seal them to the head. The decoupling elements work like shock absorbers since the injectors are in the cylinder- direct injection ad allow the injector to move. If they are missing, the injectors move too much and an wear the cylinder head around the injectors. Then you have a compression leak around the injectors and misfires as a result. If the head is worn in the injector bores, there is nothing that can be done to fix it short of head replacement. Bum deal, but at least it's not out of your pocket. It's a good time for them to clean the valves when they have to swap them to the new head!

NoQuarter · 05-25-2012, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmw135er

Soot or exhaust residue around the injector. Probably the decoupling elements that were missing since the car wouldn't run long without the injector teflon seals that seal them to the head. The decoupling elements work like shock absorbers since the injectors are in the cylinder- direct injection ad allow the injector to move. If they are missing, the injectors move too much and an wear the cylinder head around the injectors. Then you have a compression leak around the injectors and misfires as a result. If the head is worn in the injector bores, there is nothing that can be done to fix it short of head replacement. Bum deal, but at least it's not out of your pocket. It's a good time for them to clean the valves when they have to swap them to the new head!

A possible remedy that was mentioned was sending the head to have a sleeve installed in the injector bore. Sounds much like what is done when a spark plug hole is stripped. What do you think of that?

07_335i_AW · 05-25-2012, 08:00 AM

Same thing happened to me with one injector installed by a dealer. It caused misfiring about 6 months after replacement and after about a year it got really bad/annoying to drive. When I took to another dealer they said the previous dealer installed the injector incorrectly forgetting some retaining clip.

NoQuarter · 05-25-2012, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 07_335i_AW

Same thing happened to me with one injector installed by a dealer. It caused misfiring about 6 months after replacement and after about a year it got really bad/annoying to drive. When I took to another dealer they said the previous dealer installed the injector incorrectly forgetting some retaining clip.

Do you recall the remedy? Did they just replace the clip or was there concern over damage to the head?

JamesM3M5 · 05-25-2012, 03:55 PM

Wow, that sucks! The dealer would be better off with just replacing the whole head. Trying to get a sleeve machined for however many injectors were affected, then reamed to size, etc, sounds like a recipe for disappointment to me. I'd only attempt it if I had to pay out of pocket and it were my own mistake on maybe one injector.

NoQuarter · 05-25-2012, 04:57 PM

Got word from our regional BMW rep that there is no "repair the head" option. If it is damaged it must be replaced.

I'm getting the impression the BMW rep is all over this and will ensure this is properly resolved.

Ilma · 05-25-2012, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoQuarter

Got word from our regional BMW rep that there is no "repair the head" option. If it is damaged it must be replaced.

I'm getting the impression the BMW rep is all over this and will ensure this is properly resolved.

That's good to hear!

What symptoms did you notice drivng the car?

NoQuarter · 05-26-2012, 06:28 PM

That's good to hear!

What symptoms did you notice drivng the car?[/QUOTE]
Just the cylinder 3 misfire like any other. Only I couldn't remedy without trying a new injector and I am under CPO so I just mentioned the problem when I went in for our battery cable recall.

Turns out it wasn't missing o-rings but the decoupling element that was mentioned a few posts back.

NoQuarter · 06-07-2012, 11:51 AM

This is how things turned out:

Both dealers really impressed me with their commitment to determine the extent of any damage to the cylinder head as well as BMW. The dealer responsible for the problem sent a driver with a loaner Mercedes 3 hours to pick up my car, took it to their shop and inspected and photographed areas of concern with the district BMW rep onsite to look at the problem first hand.

Everyone is satisfied there is no cylinder head damage. They installed 6 new injectors (properly of course) and tested the car over a period of multiple sessions and brought it back to me on day 3.

As far as the performance of the car, all I can say is that I am completely blown away at how fantastic the car feels! I thought it was great before (until my misfire problems) but I had no idea what I was missing out on. I have run a Procede before and this car feels to me like it is on map1 and a Procede isn't even installed.

Cost to me: $0 and couple days in a Mercedes!

The Mercedes by the way, a 2012 C300, was fantastically quite and smooth on the road but the performance was underwhelming.

05-24-2012, 08:27 PM	#1
NoQuarter Captain 166 Rep 906 Posts Drives: 2008 535xi / 2011 Z4 35Is Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Indiana iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 BMW X2 [0.00] 2008 535xi [0.00] 2011 Z4 35is [0.00]	missing injector o-rings = new cylinder head? All 6 six injectors were installed by a dealer without the o-rings. What does the damage to the cylinder head look like when this happens and what sort of diagnosis routine would a tech follow to declare the cylinder head should be replaced or not?
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05-24-2012, 08:31 PM	#2
E90SoFlo Banned 196 Rep 2,669 Posts Drives: E90 335i Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Naples, FL iTrader: (9)	I would take it back to the dealer and tell them you want a new motor.
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05-24-2012, 11:06 PM	#5
MilehighM3 Brigadier General 915 Rep 3,456 Posts Drives: Harrop E90 M3 Join Date: May 2011 Location: Colorado Springs iTrader: (14) Garage List 2009 E90 M3 [6.50]	Soot or exhaust residue around the injector. Probably the decoupling elements that were missing since the car wouldn't run long without the injector teflon seals that seal them to the head. The decoupling elements work like shock absorbers since the injectors are in the cylinder- direct injection ad allow the injector to move. If they are missing, the injectors move too much and an wear the cylinder head around the injectors. Then you have a compression leak around the injectors and misfires as a result. If the head is worn in the injector bores, there is nothing that can be done to fix it short of head replacement. Bum deal, but at least it's not out of your pocket. It's a good time for them to clean the valves when they have to swap them to the new head!
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05-25-2012, 08:00 AM	#7
07_335i_AW Captain 31 Rep 635 Posts Drives: 2007 335i Coupe Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: North Las Vegas iTrader: (3)	Same thing happened to me with one injector installed by a dealer. It caused misfiring about 6 months after replacement and after about a year it got really bad/annoying to drive. When I took to another dealer they said the previous dealer installed the injector incorrectly forgetting some retaining clip. __________________ [19" VORTEX TUNING LM's] [*JB4][BMS DCI] [CYBA INTAKE SCOOPS] [M3 REP FRONT BUMPER] [H&R SPORT W/ KONI YELLOWS] [MATTE BLACK GRILLES][VRSF DOWNPIPES][GLOSS BLACK VINYL ROOL][LIP SPOILER*] http://www.facebook.com/thelastdetailnv
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05-25-2012, 03:55 PM	#9
JamesM3M5 Some dude 92 Rep 1,780 Posts Drives: E92 335i Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Northern VA iTrader: (0)	Wow, that sucks! The dealer would be better off with just replacing the whole head. Trying to get a sleeve machined for however many injectors were affected, then reamed to size, etc, sounds like a recipe for disappointment to me. I'd only attempt it if I had to pay out of pocket and it were my own mistake on maybe one injector. __________________ RRT E92 335i/6MT with stuff and things
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05-25-2012, 04:57 PM	#10
NoQuarter Captain 166 Rep 906 Posts Drives: 2008 535xi / 2011 Z4 35Is Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Indiana iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 BMW X2 [0.00] 2008 535xi [0.00] 2011 Z4 35is [0.00]	Got word from our regional BMW rep that there is no "repair the head" option. If it is damaged it must be replaced. I'm getting the impression the BMW rep is all over this and will ensure this is properly resolved.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-26-2012, 06:28 PM	#12
NoQuarter Captain 166 Rep 906 Posts Drives: 2008 535xi / 2011 Z4 35Is Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Indiana iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 BMW X2 [0.00] 2008 535xi [0.00] 2011 Z4 35is [0.00]	That's good to hear! What symptoms did you notice drivng the car?[/QUOTE] Just the cylinder 3 misfire like any other. Only I couldn't remedy without trying a new injector and I am under CPO so I just mentioned the problem when I went in for our battery cable recall. Turns out it wasn't missing o-rings but the decoupling element that was mentioned a few posts back.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-07-2012, 11:51 AM	#13
NoQuarter Captain 166 Rep 906 Posts Drives: 2008 535xi / 2011 Z4 35Is Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Indiana iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 BMW X2 [0.00] 2008 535xi [0.00] 2011 Z4 35is [0.00]	This is how things turned out: Both dealers really impressed me with their commitment to determine the extent of any damage to the cylinder head as well as BMW. The dealer responsible for the problem sent a driver with a loaner Mercedes 3 hours to pick up my car, took it to their shop and inspected and photographed areas of concern with the district BMW rep onsite to look at the problem first hand. Everyone is satisfied there is no cylinder head damage. They installed 6 new injectors (properly of course) and tested the car over a period of multiple sessions and brought it back to me on day 3. As far as the performance of the car, all I can say is that I am completely blown away at how fantastic the car feels! I thought it was great before (until my misfire problems) but I had no idea what I was missing out on. I have run a Procede before and this car feels to me like it is on map1 and a Procede isn't even installed. Cost to me: $0 and couple days in a Mercedes! The Mercedes by the way, a 2012 C300, was fantastically quite and smooth on the road but the performance was underwhelming.
	Appreciate 0 Quote