[RPM90]

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...guna_seca/#top

The Boss 302 has proven impressive, and created much talk and comparison to the 1M, deserved or not.
Now, GM has jumped in and is giving Ford some competition with the
Camaro ZL1.
The ZL1 beats the 302 on this track in this test.
And, given the comments about how great the suspension is in the new ZL1, it seems the Camaro ZL1 is also the better daily driver.
Good job GM.

The Camaro is much too big for my tastes, and the Boss 302 seems to dedicated for the track and not every day driving.
But, it's hard to ignore the very impressive track performance of both of these American sports cars.

For my tastes, I'm very interested in trying the new Cadillac ATS, which is pointed directly at the new 3 series.
And I'm really interested in trying the ATS coupe, which could be here in about a year.
My 135i is due to be replaced this summer, but BMW has dropped the ball on a 1 series coupe replacement with no word on what it will be nor on when it will be available for the North American market.
I'm amazed at how much it seems BMW doesn't care about a 1 series replacement given how well the model has sold in N. America.

[JHOOPS2]

This is a terrible comparison. The ZL1 is in the same market at the GT500, especially the upcoming 2013 GT500.

[robertm]

Agreed totally stupid. They are definitely not supposed to be head to head cars. Would be like comparing the 335is to the AMG C class. The comaro is $8000 more expensive. That's a huge amount of money at that price point.

Plus as you stated Mustang already has a head to head car, its called the GT500 and has a supercharged 550 hp engine. Oh and it also lists for $8000 less than the Comaro..

[mPlasticDesign]

Originally Posted by RPM90

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...guna_seca/#top

The Boss 302 has proven impressive, and created much talk and comparison to the 1M, deserved or not.
Now, GM has jumped in and is giving Ford some competition with the
Camaro ZL1.
The ZL1 beats the 302 on this track in this test.
And, given the comments about how great the suspension is in the new ZL1, it seems the Camaro ZL1 is also the better daily driver.
Good job GM.

The Camaro is much too big for my tastes, and the Boss 302 seems to dedicated for the track and not every day driving.
But, it's hard to ignore the very impressive track performance of both of these American sports cars.

For my tastes, I'm very interested in trying the new Cadillac ATS, which is pointed directly at the new 3 series.
And I'm really interested in trying the ATS coupe, which could be here in about a year.
My 135i is due to be replaced this summer, but BMW has dropped the ball on a 1 series coupe replacement with no word on what it will be nor on when it will be available for the North American market.
I'm amazed at how much it seems BMW doesn't care about a 1 series replacement given how well the model has sold in N. America.

First off, the only people who keeping drawing this comparison between the 302Boss and the 1M is 135 owners. Hmmm, wonder why?

Second, where did you get the idea that the 1 series "sold so well in NA"?

Lastly, why did you post this in the 1M section? Mods please move or delete.

[JHOOPS2]

The ZL1 weighs 4,100 lbs

/Thread

[Amnizu]

Meh, Motor trend the same people who chose the R32 over the STi and Evo because it had more cargo space.

[JimmyT]

Putting all foolishness aside, based solely on acceleration and handling, the ZL1 Camaro has the potential to be a fantastic car. If you read the implied messages, the BOSS 302 out handles the GT 500, so the comparison is valid for a track weapon.
The takeaway for us, it the new M3/M4 will come to the game being a more balanced car, able to perform on the street and track, and offer a level of quality and refinement that a muscle car can't match. I own a 135i with DCT and will accept that either of these cars will clean my clock at the track with a semi-competent driver.

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by JimmyT

Putting all foolishness aside, based solely on acceleration and handling, the ZL1 Camaro has the potential to be a fantastic car. If you read the implied messages, the BOSS 302 out handles the GT 500, so the comparison is valid for a track weapon.

Well this is one of the most useless comparisons I've ever seen. Actually, no comparison is really "useless", but this one is because readers (obviously) come to draw incorrect conclusions.

You don't know the BOSS beats the GT500 around the track because there's no data for it yet. The ZL-1 and the '13 Shelby are DIRECT and ABSOLUTE competitors. The BOSS doesn't have one from GM AFAIK. The GT500 has 100 more HP than what it had last year and what are described as significant improvements in handling to a car that wasn't too far behind the BOSS already, so I wouldn't at all be surprised if it is faster around the track than the BOSS. I expect it to be. Seeing as how the ZL-1's direct competitor on all fronts will be the Shelby, it really surprises me they'd do this test. Seems to me like they're just trolling, stirring the pot of hatred that is GM vs Ford fanboys. Bandwidth generation is all it is, for the wrong reasons.

I can't wait until MT's next comparo... Refrigerator versus lawnmower. Makes me all giddy inside.

EDIT: I'm not trying to take anything away from the ZL1, I think it's a great car and kudos to GM for making it so good.... Now if they could just do something about that visibility issue and the Fisher Price dash layout.... I'm also a bit underwhelmed by its EPA numbers, I've always been impressed with GM's ability to squeeze ridiculous efficiency out of these small blocks.... I guess you can only ask for so much though when you're pumping out 580HP from 6.2L.

[BIMMERGUY91]

The Boss and ZL1 are not even comparable.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Mr.Metak2you

First off, the only people who keeping drawing this comparison between the 302Boss and the 1M is 135 owners. Hmmm, wonder why?

Second, where did you get the idea that the 1 series "sold so well in NA"?

Lastly, why did you post this in the 1M section? Mods please move or delete.

Let me clear this up for you.
I posted that link because it was an interesting article on a GM product that did well against the 302.
There was a recent thread on the 302, where a lot of 1M owners chimed in with all sorts of comments.
You claim that 135i owners draw this comparison. Ok, if you say so, but that has nothing to do with me, nor is it the reason why I posted the information.

I posted in the 1M section and in the 1 series general section, again, strictly for the interest that the ZL1 is also a RWD coupe just like our 1's and the Mustang. It's that benign. So no need to try and read anything into my post.

I posted this simply as information and nothing more.
Your response shows that you need to pull your panties our of your crusty nether region. Yuck.

Oh, and yes the 1 series has sold well for BMW.
In fact, at one point the demand was so much higher than what BMW expected that they had to increase production to satisfy demand.
That's where I got it, and why I say the 1 series sells well.
Why though?
Do you have information that the 1 series didn't or isn't selling well?
Remember, a big reason why the 1M was created is due to the success of the 1 series.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by BIMMERGUY91

The Boss and ZL1 are not even comparable.

Of course not, it's not like they are both based on modern "pony" cars.
They aren't both RWD, front engine V8's.
They aren't coupes.
They don't have a decades long rivalry.

Naw, they have nothing in common.

[JimmyT]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

Well this is one of the most useless comparisons I've ever seen. Actually, no comparison is really "useless", but this one is because readers (obviously) come to draw incorrect conclusions.

You don't know the BOSS beats the GT500 around the track because there's no data for it yet. The ZL-1 and the '13 Shelby are DIRECT and ABSOLUTE competitors. The BOSS doesn't have one from GM AFAIK. The GT500 has 100 more HP than what it had last year and what are described as significant improvements in handling to a car that wasn't too far behind the BOSS already, so I wouldn't at all be surprised if it is faster around the track than the BOSS. I expect it to be. Seeing as how the ZL-1's direct competitor on all fronts will be the Shelby, it really surprises me they'd do this test. Seems to me like they're just trolling, stirring the pot of hatred that is GM vs Ford fanboys. Bandwidth generation is all it is, for the wrong reasons.

I can't wait until MT's next comparo... Refrigerator versus lawnmower. Makes me all giddy inside.

EDIT: I'm not trying to take anything away from the ZL1, I think it's a great car and kudos to GM for making it so good.... Now if they could just do something about that visibility issue and the Fisher Price dash layout.... I'm also a bit underwhelmed by its EPA numbers, I've always been impressed with GM's ability to squeeze ridiculous efficiency out of these small blocks.... I guess you can only ask for so much though when you're pumping out 580HP from 6.2L.

Please read the FEB 2012 C&D lighting lap article for comparisons of BOSS 302 and 2011 Shelby GT 500. On that track, with it's long straights and tight corners, the BOSS out ran all iterations of the GT 500 that have been built to date. SO until the 650 HP snake comes out of the skunk works and into the light, the BOSS 302 IS the best handling Mustang. /rant

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by JimmyT

Please read the FEB 2012 C&D lighting lap article for comparisons of BOSS 302 and 2011 Shelby GT 500. On that track, with it's long straights and tight corners, the BOSS out ran all iterations of the GT 500 that have been built to date. SO until the 650 HP snake comes out of the skunk works and into the light, the BOSS 302 IS the best handling Mustang. /rant

So this comparison makes sense to you, eh? The '13 Shelby is right around the corner, literally probably just a couple months away for the press.... The ZL1 and Shelby are direct competition, aimed directly at each other, and even mention each other when their reps speak publicly about them.

Whatever floats your boat I guess. IMO they knew all this didn't make sense, but enjoyed the fact that they would generate bandwidth with such a comparison. Of course people are going to be pissed, it's a dumb comparison from the get-go.

Like I said, refrigerator versus lawnmower in the next issue. Followed by A3 2.0T versus M3. If you liked this comparison, those ones will also make perfect sense to you.

[BIMMERGUY91]

The zl1 is a supercharged v8 that weighs 4100 lbs and the boss 302 is a stripped out racecar basically ...

[Q4P]

This is exactly why I don't read mainstream car magazines.

[ptack]

Who has the better mullet?

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by ptack

Who has the better mullet?

What sucks is mullets are now able to hang with and beat the track-bred Bimmers at the tracks....

On that note, my buddy cut off his mullet the other day and felt lost without it. It was a hockey mullet though. Does that count?

But on a serious note, between Camaro and Mustang lovers, I think the Maro guys have had the better mullets historically. It's been pretty close though. IMHO of course.

[az34]

Originally Posted by CAPSGOD

Isn't the new GT500 supposed to have 650 horsepower? Wonder how that will compare.

Corvette ZR1 is waiting patiently to crush the upcoming GT500 !

[kyleb350]

Originally Posted by az34

Corvette ZR1 is waiting patiently to crush the upcoming GT500 !

It's better to compare the Camaro...
Camaro ZL1 - $55k
GT500 - $60k

Corvette ZR1 - $111k

[az34]

Originally Posted by kyleb350

It's better to compare the Camaro...
Camaro ZL1 - $55k
GT500 - $60k

Corvette ZR1 - $111k

where did get that price? the 650hp mustang is not even on the market yet. If you are right i'll take two!

[kyleb350]

Originally Posted by az34

where did get that price? the 650hp mustang is not even on the market yet. If you are right i'll take two!

Googled a couple sites that estimate it around this. The current Shelby starts at $48,810. I can't imagine they'd raise the price THAT much.

[san~man]

10K markup is usually the "norm" on Shelby stuff.