[stratos_335]

Dear all,

I decided to dyno my car on a Mustang dynamo meter. My car is FBO + fully catless + meth 80-20 (pps system) + 7-19 "custom tuned" (check the trhed named "fun with ignition retard")

So... here are the results:




The car made 376 rwhp and 52.2 kgm rwtq (ignore the ft-lb, it's kgm). It's far from the 430-440 rwhp that some people get from a dynojet. This is a Mustang dyno so it is considered to be more strict than the dynojet and get power with the wheels on the car including their inertia.

Here is the datalog:





OK, before discussing the ignition advance which is terrible by the way, CAN dwb throttle is only 78%. Does it mean that the gas pedal was not hit on the floor? Or just a procede bug?


I have terrible ignition drops. I just logged the car and it hits 15.5 degrees of ignition retard which is perfect.

Methanol flow fluctuates between 11 and 16, not a solid 15 that I used to have. Is that an indication that the car was not WOT?

The car was dynoed at a tuner's dyno. This tuner has maybe the most powerful custom reflashes from all the cars I have raced. Those cars make 410-420 with meth on the same dyno.

After some discussion with the tuner he told me about the torque converter. If I understood it right, torque converter is a ROM inside the stock DME (an equation) that controls ignition, fuel trims and boost. If you introduce an amount of torque, then this equation changes the data coming out of the DME so the car makes less power. After a reflash, this ROM changes and handles power in a different way. Some cars make this power with just over 18 psi overboost and 15.5 psi constant. A car with this tune makes 30 whp more at 4800 rpm and 56 whp more at 6500 rpm.

Tuners please chime in.

Here is the video from the dyno:

So, except the throttle and poor ignition, what might be wrong with my car or the dyno?

[Apogee]

what was the correction factor on the dyno?

[stratos_335]

Originally Posted by Apogee

what was the correction factor on the dyno?

Honestly, I don't know but I can contact the owner tomorrow and find out

[Apogee]

Originally Posted by stratos_335

Honestly, I don't know but I can contact the owner tomorrow and find out

correction factors can seriously take away or add insane amounts of horsepower and TQ...look into it...FYI dynos are used as a tuning tool...don't get wrapped up in numbers, it's how the car performs what matters most

[boom]

Quit trying to figure something out that isnt there. Your timing is too high and continually being pulled. It's pretty impressive that you hit 376 on a mustang with that timing anyway. Pull a couple of degrees from 3k-5k and you'll have better top end results.

[jdbretz]

What size nozzle are you running for your meth injection? Also what was the ambient temperature during the test? Your IAT's seem a little high considering you're running meth unless it was really hot outside during the dyno. Your torque also seems low @ 377 lb/ft.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

78% is WOT

It looks your methanol needs some work and the boost is WAY too high.

Lower your boost and fix your methanol. You may not be running enough but what is apparent is you have some flow issues.

A little more information about all your modifications and details would help.

Edit- Your intake temps are way too high too which is another factor showing methanol problems and too much boost.

[cn555ic]

Although its showing flow on the Procede reader from your flow sensor it is really odd that the temps climbed up to 107 degrees on meth...It had to be something wrong with the flow sensor and if its the crappy Lebonte unit, take a hammer to it and order a new one from either SNow or Aquamist to work with your PPS.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by cn555ic

Although its showing flow on the Procede reader from your flow sensor it is really odd that the temps climbed up to 107 degrees on meth...It had to be something wrong with the flow sensor and if its the crappy Lebonte unit, take a hammer to it and order a new one from either SNow or Aquamist to work with your PPS.

IAT should not go up that much with proper meth flow.

Mike

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by stratos_335

Dear all,

I decided to dyno my car on a Mustang dynamo meter. My car is FBO + fully catless + meth 80-20 (pps system) + 7-19 "custom tuned" (check the trhed named "fun with ignition retard")

So... here are the results:




The car made 376 rwhp and 52.2 kgm rwtq (ignore the ft-lb, it's kgm). It's far from the 430-440 rwhp that some people get from a dynojet. This is a Mustang dyno so it is considered to be more strict than the dynojet and get power with the wheels on the car including their inertia.

Here is the datalog:





OK, before discussing the ignition advance which is terrible by the way, CAN dwb throttle is only 78%. Does it mean that the gas pedal was not hit on the floor? Or just a procede bug?


I have terrible ignition drops. I just logged the car and it hits 15.5 degrees of ignition retard which is perfect.

Methanol flow fluctuates between 11 and 16, not a solid 15 that I used to have. Is that an indication that the car was not WOT?

The car was dynoed at a tuner's dyno. This tuner has maybe the most powerful custom reflashes from all the cars I have raced. Those cars make 410-420 with meth on the same dyno.

After some discussion with the tuner he told me about the torque converter. If I understood it right, torque converter is a ROM inside the stock DME (an equation) that controls ignition, fuel trims and boost. If you introduce an amount of torque, then this equation changes the data coming out of the DME so the car makes less power. After a reflash, this ROM changes and handles power in a different way. Some cars make this power with just over 18 psi overboost and 15.5 psi constant. A car with this tune makes 30 whp more at 4800 rpm and 56 whp more at 6500 rpm.

Tuners please chime in.

Here is the video from the dyno:

So, except the throttle and poor ignition, what might be wrong with my car or the dyno?

Power is quite fine (equivalent to 420+whp on a dynojet). But like others said, your meth doesn't seem to be flowing sufficiently judging by the high IAT and ignition timing drop-outs. Fix that and you should be good to go. Also, for running maps with ignition advance (like the current aggressive v5 beta maps), we standardize PWM meth flow by using two 1.0mm nozzles at 100%DC. This equates to approx 900cc/min. And a PPS kit would need to spray a bit more to provide the same level of knock suppression (maybe 1200cc/min). Which means that you should consider using dual m7s. Or at least one m7 and one m5. Avoid the temptation to use a single M12 as it won't atomize/distribute well..

[stratos_335]

For those that asked

Injen intake, Forge intercooler, Vishnu procede rev. 3 7-19, Riss racing catless downpipes, vk-motorwerks oil cooler, fully catless 3" custom exhaust, vishnu pps meth kit

20C ambient temperature (68F), 80-20 meth mixture, M7 nozzle

Originally Posted by jdbretz

What size nozzle are you running for your meth injection? Also what was the ambient temperature during the test? Your IAT's seem a little high considering you're running meth unless it was really hot outside during the dyno. Your torque also seems low @ 377 lb/ft.

Check my post above. And units are kgm and not lb-ft as displayed.

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

78% is WOT

It looks your methanol needs some work and the boost is WAY too high.

Lower your boost and fix your methanol. You may not be running enough but what is apparent is you have some flow issues.

A little more information about all your modifications and details would help.

Edit- Your intake temps are way too high too which is another factor showing methanol problems and too much boost.

Originally Posted by cn555ic

Although its showing flow on the Procede reader from your flow sensor it is really odd that the temps climbed up to 107 degrees on meth...It had to be something wrong with the flow sensor and if its the crappy Lebonte unit, take a hammer to it and order a new one from either SNow or Aquamist to work with your PPS.

And yes we have a winner. Labonte failsafe was not working properly and now is dead. Check the following logs.

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

IAT should not go up that much with proper meth flow.

Mike

As you said Mike, meth was not flowing properly. I should have emptied my tank with tonights runs but meth level is at the middle of the tank

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Power is quite fine (equivalent to 420+whp on a dynojet). But like others said, your meth doesn't seem to be flowing sufficiently judging by the high IAT and ignition timing drop-outs. Fix that and you should be good to go. Also, for running maps with ignition advance (like the current aggressive v5 beta maps), we standardize PWM meth flow by using two 1.0mm nozzles at 100%DC. This equates to approx 900cc/min. And a PPS kit would need to spray a bit more to provide the same level of knock suppression (maybe 1200cc/min). Which means that you should consider using dual m7s. Or at least one m7 and one m5. Avoid the temptation to use a single M12 as it won't atomize/distribute well..

Shiv, I have purchased a 250 psi pump and a M10 nozzle. Wouldn't that be sufficient for my mods?


And here we are. I went for some logging tonight. Map 2, 19.2 psi and....



Meth started spraying and that was all. It raised to 2% and then the fail safe died. Maybe the pump died but fail safe seems to failed. Another Labonte failsafe fail here.

When I replace it I will go for another dyno there.


But nobody chimed in about the torque converter. I would like to comment what I initially posted.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by stratos_335

For those that asked

Injen intake, Forge intercooler, Vishnu procede rev. 3 7-19, Riss racing catless downpipes, vk-motorwerks oil cooler, fully catless 3" custom exhaust, vishnu pps meth kit

20C ambient temperature (68F), 80-20 meth mixture, M7 nozzle



Check my post above. And units are kgm and not lb-ft as displayed.





And yes we have a winner. Labonte failsafe was not working properly and now is dead. Check the following logs.



As you said Mike, meth was not flowing properly. I should have emptied my tank with tonights runs but meth level is at the middle of the tank



Shiv, I have purchased a 250 psi pump and a M10 nozzle. Wouldn't that be sufficient for my mods?


And here we are. I went for some logging tonight. Map 2, 19.2 psi and....



Meth started spraying and that was all. It raised to 2% and then the fail safe died. Maybe the pump died but fail safe seems to failed. Another Labonte failsafe fail here.

When I replace it I will go for another dyno there.


But nobody chimed in about the torque converter. I would like to comment what I initially posted.

The info provided (knock drop-outs, high IATs) suggest that methanol isn't even flowing. NOT that the failsafe is dead. First order of business would be physically activate the system and spray into a cup. By the looks of it, you might not be getting spray at all. Which would either suggest a line blockage, a flow solenoid that is not opening, or a faulty pump.

[enrita]

arent you even running map 4? Basically no failsafe?

[jdbretz]

Originally Posted by stratos_335

Check my post above. And units are kgm and not lb-ft as displayed.

52.2 kgm = 377.56332297 lb/ft of torque, so like I said, your torque seems low to me unless my conversion is off.

[stratos_335]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

The info provided (knock drop-outs, high IATs) suggest that methanol isn't even flowing. NOT that the failsafe is dead. First order of business would be physically activate the system and spray into a cup. By the looks of it, you might not be getting spray at all. Which would either suggest a line blockage, a flow solenoid that is not opening, or a faulty pump.

It's something that needs to be done.

Tonight I went out to my girlfriend. As I was going back home I had my map 1 engaged (15.5 psi) and I had left meth on. I felt a kick and hazard lights turned on. And yes meth was flowing. Changed to 4th gear, the car pulled crazy and then.... hazard lights turned off and car became slower. I didn't run out of meth, tank is at the middle. So, it looks like it is a failsafe problem

Originally Posted by enrita

arent you even running map 4? Basically no failsafe?

No, I don't use map 4. Car feels slower rather than with map 2.

[stratos_335]

Originally Posted by jdbretz

52.2 kgm = 377.56332297 lb/ft of torque, so like I said, your torque seems low to me unless my conversion is off.

Sorry, my mistake. My horsepower was 376-377 so I confused the torque with horsepower. It's my mistake, you were right with that

[chiefsotos]

Originally Posted by stratos_335

Dear all,
After some discussion with the tuner he told me about the torque converter. If I understood it right, torque converter is a ROM inside the stock DME (an equation) that controls ignition, fuel trims and boost. If you introduce an amount of torque, then this equation changes the data coming out of the DME so the car makes less power. After a reflash, this ROM changes and handles power in a different way. Some cars make this power with just over 18 psi overboost and 15.5 psi constant. A car with this tune makes 30 whp more at 4800 rpm and 56 whp more at 6500 rpm.

So if i understand correctly, some tunes like Procede or jb3 can't overpass the torque converter of the dme and although you raise the boost at 18psi you make less power??? (the same power that you have with this reflash at 15psi)
I am very curious if there is such a thing (torque converter) or it is another tuner trick to advertise his custom reflash.