[SpeedOften]

What's the difference between the Ground control, the Vorshlag and say the staged KMAC sets sold by Turner?


I autocross my car about twice a month from March until November. What I'm looking for is a set of camber plates so that I can adjust camber with minimal tooling. I currently have H&R sport springs on oem sport struts / dampeners along with TR motor sport wheels in 18x9 with Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star specs all around. I have rolled my front fenders however where the front bumper meets the fender I am experiencing some rubbing on large bumps or dips in the road. This is going to get worse until I change out the oem struts / dampeners of which I plan to do early next month for a set of Koni Yellow's. I'd like to get the camber plates as well to tune in some negative camber.

I also daily drive my car to and from work on the oem sport wheels so whatever camber plates I buy need to be strong enough to handle that beating from the not so great roads around Norfolk, VA...

Looking at the HP autoworks listing for the Vorshlag plates, they give two options for Koni's in the "strut type" pull down menu, so I'm a little confused about that as well: http://hpashop.com/product.sc?produc...categoryId=175

The Turner / KMAC sets: http://www.turnermotorsport.com/c-64...er-plates.aspx

and the Bimmerworld Ground Control sets: http://store.bimmerworld.com/ground-...tes-p1543.aspx

And Thank you for the help!

[tibra1]

Without a doubt go w HP Autowerks and the Vorschlags..The Vorschlags are proven..and Harold is one of THE most knowledegable suspension guys I have spoken to..

You can check out my review..I purchased my entire suspension from Harold at HPA.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=586764

[Chowbow]

I have static Dinan plates, but they only give you a small amount of increased negative camber and it increases your stackup height by about a 1/4". Works great for me though as there are no moving parts and really nothing to wear out or break or cause noises.

[Syndicategt]

Originally Posted by tibra1

Without a doubt go w HP Autowerks and the Vorschlags..The Vorschlags are proven..and Harold is one of THE most knowledegable suspension guys I have spoken to..

+1

[mike-y]

Ground control has a street camber plate and a race plate. The street ones retain a rubber bushing to help isolate noise/vibration/harshness, while the other does not. Something to consider if it's your daily driver.

some camber plates may also lower the car more than stock because of the way the top mount is designed, so you might want to check on that as well, since you aren't running coilovers.

[sn0pea]

How much negative chamber are you getting by just throwing on H&R springs? Without camber plates?

[TurboBimmer]

Originally Posted by sn0pea

How much negative chamber are you getting by just throwing on H&R springs? Without camber plates?

Changing springs will not affect camber on the front at all.

[GaryS]

Can anyone comment on the TC Kline camber plates? I remember someone said they're the easiest to adjust between track and street settings. Is there any downside compared to Vorschlag?

[sn0pea]

Originally Posted by Autobahn335i

Changing springs will not affect camber on the front at all.

....... Wow I'm confused now. So you're saying lowering your car does not cause negative chamber? That's totally against everything I've learned

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by GaryS

Can anyone comment on the TC Kline camber plates? I remember someone said they're the easiest to adjust between track and street settings. Is there any downside compared to Vorschlag?

As far as adjustment goes both are about the same - loosen the 3 nuts and start adjuting.

The downside to the TCK plates is that it must be used with a TCK/Koni coilover set up.

[mike-y]

Originally Posted by sn0pea

....... Wow I'm confused now. So you're saying lowering your car does not cause negative chamber? That's totally against everything I've learned

it depends on the suspension design. most front strut suspensions gain very little camber when lowered.. the bmw rear end WILL gain camber when lowered though.

front a-arm suspensions (like on my honda, miatas, S2000s) will gain camber when lowered.

[SpeedOften]

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

As far as adjustment goes both are about the same - loosen the 3 nuts and start adjuting.

The downside to the TCK plates is that it must be used with a TCK/Koni coilover set up.

On your site, Is this what the difference is betweeen the two "Koni" options under the strut type option: Koni Tapered vs TCK/Koni?

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by SpeedOften

On your site, Is this what the difference is betweeen the two "Koni" options under the strut type option: Koni Tapered vs TCK/Koni?

They are the same.

[SpeedOften]

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

They are the same.

Thanks!

Also, b/c I autocross, I'm also starting to consider coilovers, but I'm not sure if coilovers would bump me out of STU class (SCCA rules). Do the springs in the rear for a coilover setup sit in the oem spring perches or do they surround the strut like they do in front?

The SCCA Solo Street Touring suspension modification paragraph:

Ride height may only be altered by suspension adjustments, the use of spacing blocks, leaf spring shackles, torsion bar levers, or change or modification of springs or coil spring perches. This does not allow the use of spacers that alter suspension geometry, such as those between the hub carrier and lower suspension arm. Springs must be of the same type as the original (coil, leaf, torsion bar, etc.) and except as noted herein, must use the original spring attachment points. This permits multiple springs, as long as they use the original mount locations. Coil spring perches originally attached to struts or shock absorber bodies may be changed or altered, and their position may be adjustable. Spacers are allowed above or below the spring. Suspension bump stops may be altered or removed.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by SpeedOften

Thanks!

Also, b/c I autocross, I'm also starting to consider coilovers, but I'm not sure if coilovers would bump me out of STU class (SCCA rules). Do the springs in the rear for a coilover setup sit in the oem spring perches or do they surround the strut like they do in front?

The SCCA Solo Street Touring suspension modification paragraph:

The rear springs are not a coil over the damper set up, it sits between the chassis and lower control arm.

[LOLrance]

Harold,

What are the benefits of GC plates using completely solid, separate bearings for the spring and strut versus "traditional" camber plates that use single bearings to support the load?

[2jzbmw]

Wondering if anyone has run or know anything about the SPC performance camber plates???

I am running the Eibach R2's up front and was missing part of the SPC kit originally so I didnt install the camber plates, however got the missing plates now and wondering if there is any feedback on these camber kits???

[sn0pea]

Originally Posted by mike-y

it depends on the suspension design. most front strut suspensions gain very little camber when lowered.. the bmw rear end WILL gain camber when lowered though.

front a-arm suspensions (like on my honda, miatas, S2000s) will gain camber when lowered.

So can those vorshlag plates be put on the back shocks? I ordered knoi shocks and H&R springs not knowing I'd need camber plates to reduce the camber in the back.

[SpeedOften]

Originally Posted by sn0pea

So can those vorshlag plates be put on the back shocks? I ordered knoi shocks and H&R springs not knowing I'd need camber plates to reduce the camber in the back.

You would use camber bolts in teh rear.. plates only go in the front..

[sn0pea]

Originally Posted by SpeedOften

You would use camber bolts in teh rear.. plates only go in the front..

AhA! life is starting to make sense now!

[mike-y]

Originally Posted by sn0pea

AhA! life is starting to make sense now!

yeah, the Bmw has 2 very different suspension designs when you compare front to rear, so things you do up front don't usually apply to the rear and vice versa.

[TheJacka]

Originally Posted by l4wr3nc3

Harold,

What are the benefits of GC plates using completely solid, separate bearings for the spring and strut versus "traditional" camber plates that use single bearings to support the load?

+1 Would like to know as well.