[bhvrdr]

First it is true that these cars are no doubt very different cars but since they can be priced within 7K dollars of each other and both are fine European sport sedans it surely would be fun to take them all out for the day in the country roads of hilly Kentucky to gain impressions.

The day started out as a Saturday and we made contact with a friend at the local BMW dealership. He is the fiance of a medical student at our hospital and a pleasant and low pressure BMW salesman. Thanks to him for taking the time to provide both of these vehicles for a lengthy test drive.

Upon arrival at the dealership there were two bright red BMW 335i sedans parked next to each other and waiting for the drive. Their equipment levels were very pleasing as we had really wanted a chance to compare both the manual and the automatic transmission models.

Both models were equipped with the sport package, which is about the only option we can say that we would need no time at all to click the box at order time.

The 335i automatic transmission car was equipped with the paddle shifters which are the same very high quality metal shifters found on the SMG equipped e46 M3 cars that some may be familiar with. Each of the two paddle shifters allows both upshifting and downshifting by either clicking them from behind with your fingers to upshift or by clicking them from in front of the steering wheel with your thumbs to downshift. So, in chaotic tight track conditions, you need not remember or have to hunt for which paddle shifter is for up and downshifting but you just need to reach either of them for both functions. In addition to the paddle shifters, the automatic transmission car was also equipped with the iDrive. All other options were present that could be ordered leading to a price of almost 47K dollars in this car.

The manual transmission 335i was equipped with what we originally thought was pretty much how we would order such a car. It had no iDrive, had the sport package (as did the automatic car) and had the manual transmission and premium package. This vehicle was more moderately priced at approximately 43K dollars.

The Audi S4 was equipped with a manual transmission, convenience package, BOSE, and the telematics package. A similarly equipped Audi S4 would fetch approximately 51K in today's dollars. Of important note is that the Audi S4 used in this comparison weighs some 200lbs less than a standard Audi S4 due to deliberate weight reduction. It also packs some 40 more horsepower and 40 more foot pounds of torque than the stock 340hp/300tq S4 while being equipped with a Bilstein coilover suspension that can generate upwards of 1.0g or better in handling. Comparisons in handling and power were made considering these upgrades and with the knowledge of previous driving experience in non modified Audi S4 cars.

EXTERIOR COMPARISON:

Most have gotten used to the latest 3-series sedan design by now. Just as the 1986 Ford Taurus was introduced and even to some extent the B7 models of the Audi 8E chassis cars with the new fishmouth grille, it took us a bit to get used to. It no longer looks odd or all that shocking. That being said, the 335i sedan actually looks a little boring. The lines are nice in person however and the fit and finish was very nice. Still more preferable are the lines of even the older B6 model S4, but this is preference so we won't spend any more time on it. We did have a chance to compare the 335i coupe on the lot and much prefer these lines. It is far more aggressive of a look and the photographs of the 335i coupe do it no justice.

INTERIOR:

The comparison of the interiors of the 335i and the S4 was mixed. For example, the door panels of the 335i had a much more luxurious look to them as they uses perforations in the leather to let it "puff out" and really look like high quality leather is applied to the door panel. The Audi on the other hand uses a straight piece of vinyl looking leather all the way down and looks less luxury.

On the other hand, when it came to the dash board, the 335i uses a material that looks like it would feel like hard plastic. It actually doesn't feel like hard plastic. In fact if you touch it and play with it it actually feels wonderfully rubbery BUT the problem is that it really looks like cheaper plastic. The problem is in the deeper texture lines they molded into the 335i dashboard. It doesn't very well mimic real leather in their deep lines. The audi dashboard on the other hand has the texture of real leather and it provides a much more rich appearance. More preferable as well were the more smooth lines of the Audi dashboard as the front of it curves back to the windshield. The BMW has an odd bulge with a sharp angle in the top front of its dash that makes it looks more 1977 than 2007.

The automatic transmission 335i car was equipped with the iDrive with its central multifunction ball in the center console and the large flat screen in the dash. Unsure if this feature has gone through significant revision, but we had begun with a preconceived notion we would hate it and actually found it adequate to use. The major climate control buttons do retain separate control which is nice. The feel and ease of use of the central iDrive control "ball" was very smooth in operation and had a weighty metal feel to it that felt damped and expensive to the touch while using it. Although the Audi S4 in this comparison was not equipped with the Nav Plus unit, this driver owned a 2006 A4 with an identical unit and found it easier to use than the BMW iDrive controlled unit but with a smaller display and lacking points of interest on its Nav software.

Cupholders are a non issue in a sport sedan so there is no need to comment on them. Get an Oldsmobile if worried about cup holders.

As for the touch and placement of controls, both vehicles had quality feeling controls and both layouts were equally as nice. The BMW places the climate control a bit higher than the Audi so they don't go invisible when wearing sunglasses as the Audi ones do, not a huge issue.

One thing worth noting was the BMW sport seats that were in both 335i sedans. They offer absolutely incredible feel for small framed drivers. This is because the side bolster can be pneumatically adjusted to hug your torso to such an extent one might wonder if they are in a race seat. The Audi Recaros are similarly a fantastic seat but seem better suited to larger frame people who will feel the side bolsters hugging them at all times. Smaller framed folks will only feel the side bolsters when they slide over into them in turns. The Recaros feel a bit softer to the driver's rear end though and as many report, probably would make a better seat for cross country drives than the BMW sport seats that seem a bit more firm. Both seats are fantastic though and the look of the Recaro seats was top notch while the feel of the BMW sport seat was more...well...sporting to this driver.

Overall, we found even the dated Audi interior to look much better integrated and to flow better in design. It still appears Audi knows how to stay on top with regard to this benchmark, although BMW had some hints of attempting to strive ahead they fell short with overall integration.

PERFORMANCE/POWER:

It could be the lack of all wheel drive drivetrain loss or it could be that BMW really is underrating their 300hp motors as some independent dynos are showing but the 335i was fast, fast, fast. So was the modified 380hp/340tq Audi S4, but that was expected. What wasn't expected was just how brutal the 335i can accelerate from virtually any start point. From take-off the 335i will literally roast its tires throughout the entirety of first gear in the manually equipped car. Second gear isn't much friendlier. The automatic transmission car was less rude to the rear tires which may explain why many automatic transmission 335i cars are actually posting better acceleration times by real world drivers. The manual tranny car is definitely quicker but suffers a loss of traction when hammering it. More significant was the acceleration from 4th gear while cruising on a two lane country road. In this same spot pressing the accelerator of the S4 one became very aware as 80mph approached. When driving the 335i vehicles this driver looked down and saw an indicated 100mph before having the chance to even wonder if speeding. So quiet in the way it goes about its business you can get into a lot of trouble. The power delivery of both the Audi v8 and the BMW twin turbo'd I-6 is smooth and linear with no signs of holes. They both have ample torque and a great top end. Remarkable, was the virtual absence of turbo lag in the 335i. It was difficult finding ways to discuss differences in how these naturally aspirated motors and the turbocharged motors behaved as you probably wouldn't have been able to tell the 335i was receiving help from its snails if no one had told you.

The manual transmission mechanism of the Audi and the manual transmission mechanism of the BMW were both quality units that were easy to drive. Both shifters felt relatively smooth with the Audi unit feeling a bit more "oiled" or smooth but the BMW having slightly shorter throws and a slightly more precise feel. Both shifters were top notch to use and finding a favorite would likely come down to preference. The clutch on the BMW felt surprisingly light (not uncommon on a brand new car) and it had less travel than the Audi clutch. It was much easier to engage/disengage and provided less lurching between shifts. The nod goes to the BMW clutch.

With regards to the automatic transmission cars, the nod goes to the BMW. Although there was not an automatic transmission Audi S4 here today, this driver has logged hundreds of miles in them at one time or another. The BMW automatic transmission was lightning fast in its upshifts and downsifts. A recent publication posted that it can shift gears in 100 milliseconds or as fast as many automated manual transmissions, ala the Ferrari F1 tranny. This appears true. The Audi tiptronic automatic transmission is downright clumsy and slow compared to the BMW steptronic unit. And the large metal paddles of the BMW belong on a Ferrari whereas the smaller plastic paddles of the Audi belong on a Hyundai. So is the latest BMW automatic as good as the manual transmission equipped car? The answer is unfortunately no. Both the Audi and BMW automatic will still downshift for you if you put the pedal to the floor, a trait that prevents them being used in true track conditions. Similarly they will upshift for you if you hit the rev limiter. Another trait that is unacceptable for a true track driver. For those who are looking for the ease of an automatic but still want the performance of a manual transmission, the best option is still with the Audi DSG dual clutch automated manual transmission of their similar S-Tronic or with the BMW SMG transmission or their new DCT dual clutch mechanism. Interesting to note is that Audi has (at least in some cases) stepped away from their top of the line and highly acclaimed dual clutch units and moved into a less acclaimed single clutch unit in some of their new models while BMW is moving away from the slightly inferior single clutch units and towards the use of dual clutch units.

When it came to pure power and performance there was little question the 335i makes better use of its power and is ultimately a quicker car. It performed very similarly to the modified Audi S4 that was making 380hp and in some places even appeared a bit more powerful. A stock S4 will not have the juice to keep up. On the other hand, the ease of acceleration of the Quattro Audi due to added traction will probably make standing starts a better show for the Audi, as well as giving it the ability to power out of turns earlier.

HANDLING:

Herein lays some true differences in how these cars will perform, most significantly how they will perform at ten tenths or on the track. But first the similarities. Both vehicles handle similarly in normal daily driving to mildly spirited driving. Both quell sway extremely adequately and both appear to have similar response and control. But when the speeds ramp up and you are driving on a Kentucky country road that winds through mountains where you can look out your window and see no pavement and nothing but a hollow 50 feet below, the Audi inspires the most confidence. One trait important to note in which the Audi does not inspire confidence is when decelerating in decreasing radius turns. Both the S4 and RS4 are plagued by an odd oscillation, gyration (call it what you want) but it is a tendency for the rear end to become light, swing around slightly, then settle. It is a non linear, three step process rather than the smooth break away of the BMW rear end under the same conditions. Otherwise the Audi holds its course with much more confidence than the rear drive BMW.

Despite the handling advantage at ten tenths motoring of the Audi, one thing was notable in all driving situations which was the lack of precision in the steering compared to the BMW unit. The Audi is equipped with a speed sensitive steering unit that felt overly assisted at low speeds and occasionally lagged in its transition from firm and less assist at high speeds to soft and more assist at low speeds. The BMW unit remained tighter and more linear through all speeds of turns. It's often called telepathic in reviews and this experience supports those claims.

To sum up the handling characteristics of the 335i versus the S4, it appears the BMW is the more telepathic and fun to drive of the two. Much more satisfying to drive around town and for mild spirited mountain runs. However, if one was advised they had to purchase one of these cars for 40 to 50 grand and take it out on a track with no offer of reimbursement if they should crash one of them, then hands down the Audi would be the one to take. With the addition of an aftermarket swaybar or suspension upgrade the peculiar rear end gyration of the Audi can be eliminated and the Audi allows the worst drivers to appear as experts. Of course the downside is that the driving experience of the Audi can feel a bit more sterile and less connected. There is no clear winner in this category and will likely depend on the individual driver's preferences and needs.

RIDE:

The ride of both the Audi S4 and the 335i was surprisingly similar when comparing the sport suspension 335i to the Audi S4 that comes equipped with its standard sporting suspension. The Bilstein coilover equipped Audi with setting turned up to full stiff did offer more feedback from the road at the expense of an uncomfortable ride over pot holes and expansion joints. But when comparing a stock S4 to the sport package equipped 335i, both performed very similarly. Both vehicles had a taught firm ride but provided enough compliance and dampening to make them comfortable enough on broken roads. We did not have the opportunity to test a non sport suspension 335i and can't imagine any reason to. Either of the Audi or BMW would be worthy of a cross country road trip.

OVERALL:

It's difficult to pick any type of winner with such different vehicles that both provide such excellent driving experiences. What comes to mind is previous reviews comparing the e46 M3 to the Audi S4. This is because the new 335i shows performance traits so similar to that of the e46 M3...but in many ways it is better. This writer can recall the loud and brutal manner in which the M3 assaults all of the senses. The 335i provides similar thrust but without the racket. The Audi S4 has the fantastic burble of its V8 engine that the BMW can't compete with although the BMW does have a muted and smooth song that emanates from its straight six motor, more reminiscent of Lexus than BMW. The Audi handles the limits with confidence and makes the driver always want for more power all the while not realizing they are hitting triple digit speeds while the BMW feels more telepathic and integrated in its moves but is ready to throw you a blanket party at ten tenths if you make a mistake. Each of these cars is brilliant and each has a buyer. This writer can't find any other way than to say you simply should own them both. If you are forced to choose one...well...you'll probably want to at least make friends with some one who drives the other.

[HyperM3]

Always a pleasure to read a post from you. I hope you bring as much insight to e90post as you had in the past on Audizine.

[bhvrdr]

Thanks mate. I appreciate it. Incredible car you have.

cheers! Mike

[stressdoc]

I would not test drive a BMW with the summer performance rfts in winter conditions and expect to feel secure.

If you get a chance to try the 335 in warmer conditions with proper tires -- e.g., Michelin PS2s -- I expect you would notice a world of difference.

A Quaife LSD and Bilstein PSS9s are nice mods, but then you are getting into M3 territory.

Nice review!

[bhvrdr]

My apologies. The photos I included were of the same modeled vehicles but during winter. The driving conditions during the actual test was about 60 degrees and a fantastic day. We didnt have all the cameras there so didnt get a good shoot at the time.

An LSD would be great.

cheers! Mike

[purplewidow]

the paddle shifters are NOT the same on the 335 and the e46 m3's SMG!!! the smg is down left right up the 335 is down/up on both sides with deff SUCKS!!!!!!! but i am still getting them!!!
________
Lamborghini V10 History

[nycgolfer]

Great review. Very well written.

[bhvrdr]

Originally Posted by purplewidow

the paddle shifters are NOT the same on the 335 and the e46 m3's SMG!!! the smg is down left right up the 335 is down/up on both sides with deff SUCKS!!!!!!! but i am still getting them!!!

Thank you for the clarification. It has been 3 months since driving the M3 and they appeared the same. My mistake. I actually like the dual function shifters of the 335i quite a bit in case you have the wheel crossed you really only need to hit one shifter and not concentrate on which one it is. Has other people's experiences been different and found the up right and down left easier to use in these circumstances?

Thanks for the correction.

cheers! Mike

[M4TW]

Spot on!

Next, please review the 335xi v. the S4 to determine AWD supremacy.

[AndrewAZ]

Originally Posted by bhvrdr

Thank you for the clarification. It has been 3 months since driving the M3 and they appeared the same. My mistake. I actually like the dual function shifters of the 335i quite a bit in case you have the wheel crossed you really only need to hit one shifter and not concentrate on which one it is. Has other people's experiences been different and found the up right and down left easier to use in these circumstances?

Thanks for the correction.

cheers! Mike

Nope.. Having come from an M3 SMG the only time the paddles are useful is strait line acceleration and light turning. Making a simple left hand turn on the street I would always reach for the center stick to shift form 1st to 2nd gear. and having upshift and downshift on either side wont fix that problem at all..

Also the M3 uses cheap plastic paddles that over time with sun exposure tend to rot and develop cracks in them, I believe someone on the m3 forum had one of them break also.

Paddle shifters are over rated and mostly useless on the street, yes they are fun for a while but a few months or years down the road they become annoying. I once enjoyed SMGII but grew to hate it after spending almost an hour a day in traffic along with the mechanical problem I had with it of not engaging the gear properly. And 100ms is not even close to an F1 shift.. The SMGII would hit 80ms SMGIII has it down to the 60ms number and F1 has like 5-10ms shifts or less now.

[warden]

Originally Posted by bhvrdr

Thank you for the clarification. It has been 3 months since driving the M3 and they appeared the same. My mistake. I actually like the dual function shifters of the 335i quite a bit in case you have the wheel crossed you really only need to hit one shifter and not concentrate on which one it is. Has other people's experiences been different and found the up right and down left easier to use in these circumstances?

Thanks for the correction.

cheers! Mike

I have the manual 335i, but this is an excellent way to set up the paddles. I have owned a DSG car and it was very frustrating to deal with when the wheel was crossed.

Excellent review.

[Plan B]

Thanks for the excellent review...clearly written by an enthusiast and someone who knows a thing or two about driving!

[Brunotheboxer]

nice review and welcome to the forum

[Greeney]

What an amazing write up!

[Josh49]

Very nice and well written write-up..

[Insider]

Originally Posted by bhvrdr

Both the Audi and BMW automatic will still downshift for you if you put the pedal to the floor, a trait that prevents them being used in true track conditions.

The above statement is not accurate for the BMW. In manual mode, the auto will hold gears. For example, 5th gear full throttle at 1,500 rpm, no downshift. The key is to put the trans in DS mode, then hit the paddles which puts it in manual mode. Now you can give full throttle with no downshift. You can't hit the kickdown button at the very end of the throttle, though. Not hard to do as there is noticable resistance there, and you are at 100% power when you feel the resistance right before the kickdown button.

[DrewKo]

+1; I keep learning better ways to have the engine respond in my auto 335i coupe. I love the transmission and the shifting is spot on. When in DS, whether I'm shifting or the car is shifting, I have a good feel for when the shifts occur and how to have the car downshift up to 2 gears.

[S4to335]

Hey Mike..good to see you over here...so, did you decide what you are going to do yet? (this is Steve from AW)

[Saintor]

A manual Audi to an automatic BMW? Talk about a a bias.

[bhvrdr]

Originally Posted by Insider

The above statement is not accurate for the BMW. In manual mode, the auto will hold gears. For example, 5th gear full throttle at 1,500 rpm, no downshift. The key is to put the trans in DS mode, then hit the paddles which puts it in manual mode. Now you can give full throttle with no downshift. You can't hit the kickdown button at the very end of the throttle, though. Not hard to do as there is noticable resistance there, and you are at 100% power when you feel the resistance right before the kickdown button.

I did notice this and just didn't mention it. I am familiar with BMWs dating back to an older 525i I had 10 years ago. They all have a button below the throttle pedal. I'm sure there is a way to disable it and that is what I would have to do in order to consider it track worthy. Trying to keep your foot from depressing it all the way works fine on the street, but on the track you are going either full throttle or full brake and don't have the time to finesse trying not to stomp the pedal too hard. And it will upshift when it hits the limiter. This is unacceptable when coming up on a turn and not wanting to sacrifice another upshift before going into the braking zone. The audi does this as well. Good point to bring up though.

cheers! Mike

[bhvrdr]

Originally Posted by S4to335

Hey Mike..good to see you over here...so, did you decide what you are going to do yet? (this is Steve from AW)

Hiya there Steve. As you can tell it's a very tough call. I cant figure it out. I am tempted to wait for the M3 with the DCT but that could be late 2009 before it hits the states. I cant keep a car that long so I may do a 335i for a year until it comes out. I'm moving back to Florida in two months so the 335i is looking even nicer. I may do a dedicated A4 track car and the 335i as a daily driver.

cheers! Mike

[DrewKo]

I'm not sure if you mean that the 335i is not a good track car, but a 335i just won the 12 hours of Bathurst (with some modifications, including a LSD). So, perhaps with some slight modifications it would meet the issue you are addressing. Check it out http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55235