[zachar3]

What are the lease deals you guys are getting now on the 328 coupe, sedan and 335d? Also how much does the sport package and m sport throw the lease payment off?

[jopa489]

It completely depends on what you negotiate as the final purchase price.

Use this lease calculator with the current money factors and residual values to calculate the monthly payment.

[DaveL]

Every option jacks it up and up let alone those packages you mentioned but it is way too hard to pass on.

[zachar3]

Well is it a possibility that with the 2012 models coming out they might shave off the packages a little or be more flexible?

[jopa489]

Doubt it. Things will likely stay as they are until F30 rolls around next year.

[zachar3]

what point next year are they expected to come out?

[plokij]

some friendly advice would be to not lease a "luxury" car, unless you're doing it for tax purposes (i.e. company car) or just want a weekender with ultra low mileage.

1.) interest rates are still historically low
2.) the residual value is always inflated (you will always have negative equity)
3.) BMW does not allow sub-leasing (you remain liable using leasetrader, etc)
4.) you over-pay for normal wear & tear plus termination fees at lease end

plus, one of the selling points of leasing is to always drive the latest and greatest... this is blown out the window with the f30 due in the fall.

consider short-term finance of CPO/Used or think about long-term ownership of a new one tailored to your specs.

my recent experiences with leasing (in the new economy) have been lukewarm at best. it worked fine years ago and with non-luxury brands that could care less about wear & tear, sub-leasing, etc. and with luxury brands that were moving product faster than drug dealers, but times have changed and the lessee is now on the short end of the stick. dealers are looking to make a buck any way they can, and the hidden specifics of lease contracts allow them to nickel & dime the consumer to death. these cars are also a hassle on the books of the holding companies, so in a way the dealers are eating shit too.

explore the balloon option if low monthly payments are top priority. it's also always a good idea to consider a lower price point (at least just to say that you thought about a hyundai, lol).

[67R60]

Hello Plokij,

I respectfully have to argue your rational. Everyone has various reasons to lease/buy or? a car. I think leasing a BMW makes a lot of sense for people who like driving a new car every 3 to 4 years, people who drive 15K or less a year, people who don't mind a car payment.

Your points play both ways:

1.) interest rates are still historically low - Applies to leasing via a Money Factor
2.) the residual value is always inflated (you will always have negative equity) - Who cares? This actually reduces your montly payment!
3.) BMW does not allow sub-leasing (you remain liable using leasetrader, etc)
This is not true, there is a $500 fee to transfer your lease but you can't do it if your lease is up in 6 months or less.
4.) you over-pay for normal wear & tear plus termination fees at lease end.
If you beat up your car, yes you need to return within normal wear and tear guidelines. I find it very reasonable and was not charged for a few dents the size of a baseball

Bottom line, go with what is comfortable to you. If you buy or lease, it all ends up about the same.

[plokij]

i should maybe start a new thread on this topic...

well, i think that leases can be a good deal for a lot of folks, but i have been noticing that the number of applicable cases is getting smaller.

about the money factor - if you do the calculation, the mf tends to come out to at least 4-5% and in most cases 6-8%. that seems weak compared to 1.9% for a 36 month finance. the two rates are never linked. this is one "hidden" charge lessees don't usually think about and the leasing companies call it the "rent charge." it starts off being like half your monthly payment and then decreases over time to about a third per the actuarial method. i would think most people falsely assume the interest charge is low & constant.

the false residuals - yes, these do make the monthly payments very aggressive, but they also mislead the consumer. the figure doesn't represent anything in reality and leaves the door open for the dealer to make up the difference on the back end of the lease via fees of various sorts. also, one would have to pay tax twice to buyout the car - that's bogus. the high residuals may seem like they benefit the consumer at first, but they really don't. they serve to lock the lessee into the full term of the lease, even if commute time or life changes happen. if one has brand loyalty, this really doesn't apply (keeps leasing bmw's).

the only good incentives are the ones with 10k mile allowance and for cookie cutter examples - most people can't stick to this and want more than the example car, and if they can they better be sure they're situation doesn't change in the next 3 years. the price you pay for adding more miles later is more expensive than if you buy them upfront. seems like common sense, but it's just one more way to nickel & dime somebody.

i think it really hinges on brand loyalty. if you just want the latest model of a particular mfgr every 2.5 to 3 years, then leasing really can work out and be a tremendous deal. however, if you'd like to change brands, then you're most likely gonna get screwed because the leas programs are designed to hook people in at a low cost and then keep them coming back, or pay the consequence.

[anon10]

I'm not a big leasing supporter, but your posts are full of misinformation. The truth is that the net $ difference between leasing and buying a 3 series currently is minimal. This is true even if you decide to buy it out at the end of the lease.

Originally Posted by plokij

about the money factor - if you do the calculation, the mf tends to come out to at least 4-5% and in most cases 6-8%. that seems weak compared to 1.9% for a 36 month finance. the two rates are never linked. this is one "hidden" charge lessees don't usually think about and the leasing companies call it the "rent charge." it starts off being like half your monthly payment and then decreases over time to about a third per the actuarial method. i would think most people falsely assume the interest charge is low & constant.

The current MF of around .002 (and less) comes out to just under 5%, not 6-8%. And why would a lessee care how much goes to interest each month? They've already agreed to the payment amount and duration up front.

Originally Posted by plokij

the false residuals - yes, these do make the monthly payments very aggressive, but they also mislead the consumer. the figure doesn't represent anything in reality and leaves the door open for the dealer to make up the difference on the back end of the lease via fees of various sorts.

What are you talking about? It is a contract, the door is not open beyond what it says in the contract. The fees are in the contract, it is, what, a $350 disposal fee at the end of the contract if you don't buy your car or get a new one. If the residual is too high at the end, and you still want the car, you can attempt to negotiate with BMWFS.

Originally Posted by plokij

also, one would have to pay tax twice to buyout the car - that's bogus.

Again, not correct, at least in most states. For example, in California, and many other states, you only pay sales tax on the lease payments. So at lease end, you have not paid nearly as much sales tax as someone who bought the car outright. If you decide to buy the car at lease end you have to pay sales tax on the residual purchase price. Sure you will pay a little more tax if you end up buying at the end of the lease, because both the depreciation and interest components of the lease payment are subject to tax, but it amounts to only a few hundred dollars extra.

Originally Posted by plokij

the high residuals may seem like they benefit the consumer at first, but they really don't. they serve to lock the lessee into the full term of the lease, even if commute time or life changes happen.

And if you bought instead? You'd be stuck trying to sell it, and it is not that easy to sell a $35-40K car private party. Plus if you are willing to throw incentives at it you can find someone to take the lease from you.

Originally Posted by plokij

i think it really hinges on brand loyalty. if you just want the latest model of a particular mfgr every 2.5 to 3 years, then leasing really can work out and be a tremendous deal. however, if you'd like to change brands, then you're most likely gonna get screwed because the leas programs are designed to hook people in at a low cost and then keep them coming back, or pay the consequence.

Well not really. You can lease a BMW for three years and then move on to something else. Or you can decide you want to buy it out, either at the contract residual or attempt to negotiate it down.

[plokij]

misinformation? i have to strongly disagree.

most people will get the 6-8% mf because only those applicants with top tier credit, and of those folks only the ones who qualify for the loyalty incentives will be able to get the 5%. hmmm, loyalty incentive - hopefully you are starting to see my point. besides, this figure is ENTIRELY at the discretion of the dealership. so yeah, most people will be handling a 6-8% rent charge. even if they get the 5% that's still more than double the finance rate.

so why would anyone care about the rent charge and actuarial? well, compare it to the linear amortization of traditional finance. most of your payment knocks down principle - the same amount each month, whereas with a lease, you start off barely moving towards the residual in the contract. your account value inches downward even though your payments are constant. combine that with a small down payment and you are WAY upside down. this effectively locks people into the contract. they're in shackles. since you cannot sublease (apparently you can pay 600 bucks within the last 6 months of the term, but that's still 600 bones) you're really in a much worse position than if you financed at a low rate if you have to sell the car. terminating the lease with the holding company is another option i suppose, but that will cost even more.

here's what i mean about the back-end fees - if the residuals are artificially inflated, it's for a good reason. the holding company just doesn't give 2 to 3 thousand dollars away. so if a residual is 3 grand above what an actual value is for a given car, you can expect to pay pretty darn close to that at closing time, provided you don't stick with the same mfgr. even if you buy it out, you still are paying 2 to 3 grand over what the dealer would pay at auction for the same vehicle. but let's say you don;t buy it out - where are those fees coming from to allow the dealer to recoup the inflated residual? well, you would:
a) have to stay within your mileage restriction (i've seen people pay 2500 on this one alone)
b) turn in an immaculate car with no wear & tear (i've seen a small windshield crack quickly turn into a 1200 dollar windshield replacement fee)
c) make sure your tires have plenty of tread life left

albeit small, the 350 termination fee can add insult to injury. and don't try selling it to carmax, because the inflated residual will have once again have you paying the 2 to 3 grand difference between the actual value and the fake residual. i'm not saying this happens every time. but if you think about it, it probably does happen most of the time - people have lower monthly payments only to end up doing a lump sum at the end to cover "the exceptional lease offer"

yes, the tax is less for the lease. you are correct. my point is that if you buy it out, you have to pay tax again on a vehicle you've already had possession of. it just kinda sucks, but you are right, that shouldn't be a detractor from leasing.

honestly, i just saw a guy in a dealership a few nights ago get blasted with about 2500 bucks worth of termination costs on wear & tear. after completing a lease contract and walking away from the brand, that hurts. it's a penalty. those who stay with the brand get the discount. that's simply encouraging loyalty.

[GOLFFRR]

OP if you need any assistance feel free to shoot us an email. we have actually a bunch of clients in your area, mostly M cars but a couple 3 series. Ryan is very fluent with your states taxes, reg, leases, rates, etc.. when you email him just make sure you let him know your a forum member

[Andy@MORR]

Originally Posted by zachar3

What are the lease deals you guys are getting now on the 328 coupe, sedan and 335d? Also how much does the sport package and m sport throw the lease payment off?

Zachar, we just ordered 2 M3's from Ryan Amico @ Steve Thomas BMW, and we are located in Miami too. Everything went SUPER smooth, and we got a great deal.

We've bought cars from South BMW, Braman BMW, Lauderdale BMW, and Vista BMW - I'm not even going to get into it, because this might turn into a bash fest Let's just say those guys don't know how to treat a customer, and they know NOTHING about the cars they are selling.

Talk to Ryan, and tell him the guys from MORR Wheels sent you. His email is: ramico@stevethomasbmw.com

- Andy