[epiphone3]

Fleet... I need your help.

I spent a bunch of time looking at the part numbers and diagrams comparing my Canadian 2006 323i 174hp 2.5 liter engine and ancilliaries to those of the 2006 Euro-spec 325i 218hp 2.5 liter engine.

The only difference I can find is in the lubrication system. The Euro spec 325i has the heat exchanger that bolts to the Oil Filter housing and the Canadian 323i does not.

I know the programming in the computer is different.

Is there anything else different? The intake manifold is the same part number, as are the two "adjusters" found in the intake manifold system and the wiring harness on both cars have the same part number as well. Both cars have the same intake and exhaust cams and valves as far as I can tell as well. In looking at the US 325i vs. US 330i, the intake manifolds are different part numbers.

What is making the Euro 325i make 218 hp compared to my 174 hp? Is it only programming?

[tctic]

Originally Posted by epiphone3

Fleet... I need your help.

I spent a bunch of time looking at the part numbers and diagrams comparing my Canadian 2006 323i 174hp 2.5 liter engine and ancilliaries to those of the 2006 Euro-spec 325i 218hp 2.5 liter engine.

The only difference I can find is in the lubrication system. The Euro spec 325i has the heat exchanger that bolts to the Oil Filter housing and the Canadian 323i does not.

I know the programming in the computer is different.

Is there anything else different? The intake manifold is the same part number, as are the two "adjusters" found in the intake manifold system and the wiring harness on both cars have the same part number as well. Both cars have the same intake and exhaust cams and valves as far as I can tell as well. In looking at the US 325i vs. US 330i, the intake manifolds are different part numbers.

What is making the Euro 325i make 218 hp compared to my 174 hp? Is it only programming?

Are you sure the intake manifold is the same? Because I am pretty sure the Euro 325i has the 3 stage intake and the Canadian 323i only has the 1 stage intake manifold. It's probably detuned the same way as the 325i is detuned in North America from the 330i

[THE JEDI]

Bet it's a more restrictive intake system.....

[E90Fleet]

Yes, it seems they gave the 2006 Canadian 323i the 3 stage intake, while the Euro 323i doesnt have it

So it seems its just down to the programming

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by tctic

Are you sure the intake manifold is the same? Because I am pretty sure the Euro 325i has the 3 stage intake and the Canadian 323i only has the 1 stage intake manifold. It's probably detuned the same way as the 325i is detuned in North America from the 330i

I thought exactly the same thing as you!

However, if you look at the Canadian 323i and the EURO 325i, the part numbers for the intake manifolds are the same!

The only difference I found between the two under the hood was the oil filter assembly for the Euro 325 has the heat exchanger and the Canadian 323i does not.

Seems like it is just programming!

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by E90Fleet

Yes, it seems they gave the 2006 Canadian 323i the 3 stage intake, while the Euro 323i doesnt have it

So it seems its just down to the programming

Thanks for the reply, Fleet!

I am going to try and do more digging on this and see if someone knows if what we are thinking is correct.

If it is, potentially all I need is a re-flash to have a Euro 325i

[epiphone3]

There is one other difference.

The air intake box on the 323i and Euro 325i are different. I highly doubt this is contributing much of the power difference!

[epiphone3]

...

[///Matt]

You also probably have more emissions equipment...

[epiphone3]

I guess there would be some extra stuff in that department too... I don't know that it would remove much juice though.

Does anybody know of a European tuner that I can talk to to see if they can load Euro 325i software into my 323i?

[tctic]

Never knew the 323i has the 3 stage intake manifold. Maybe that's why the 323i that I drove (both 2006 and 2007) revs more freely compared to my 325i.

Actually I just checked bmw.ca. It says the 323i and the 328i has a "Steplessly Variable Intake". Is that different from the 3 stage intake the the 330i has?

[aspiring335]

Sounds like more evidence that the 323i really is a great car. Sports package, manual transmission, bluetooth and figuring out how to program it to 218hp -- and about $5k less than an equivalent 328i.

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by aspiring335

Sounds like more evidence that the 323i really is a great car. Sports package, manual transmission, bluetooth and figuring out how to program it to 218hp -- and about $5k less than an equivalent 328i.

It is absolutely a brilliant car and you are right, it does seem to rev really freely! I am the biggest BMW fan but always felt that the previous 3-series entry models (E46 320i, for example) were a bit watered down. The 323i is not and leaves me fully satisfied! Mine has Sport Package and Premium packages, by the way.

I am researching to see if it is true that all I need is software to get it up to the power of the Euro 325i. If it is, then I will be stoked... I am happy with my 174hp, but 218hp would be even better.

Anyone else uncover more about this?

[epiphone3]

...

[epiphone3]

I found a difference finally.

The exhaust systems are different.... the exhaust manifolds have different part numbers and the Canadian 323i runs a second set of catalysts downstream of the ones that are on the header whereas the Euro 325i runs straight pipes from the headers.

I assume that this would make up only a few horsepower difference between the two cars so I assume the rest is from the ECU.

Any thoughts any one?

[tctic]

I am also interested in the intake manifold that the 2007 E9x models uses. In the bmw Canada website, it is states that both 2007 323i/328i sports a "Steplessly variable intake" is used. Is that different from the 3 stage and 1 stage intake manifold used in the 2006 330i and 325i respectively?

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by tctic

I am also interested in the intake manifold that the 2007 E9x models uses. In the bmw Canada website, it is states that both 2007 323i/328i sports a "Steplessly variable intake" is used. Is that different from the 3 stage and 1 stage intake manifold used in the 2006 330i and 325i respectively?

not sure what the difference is between the "steplessly variable intake" and the 3 stage intake is...

I think that the 325i actually has a 2 stage intake rather than 1 stage. That is to say, there is one change in the intake, so the US 325i should have a low stage and a high stage and hence two stages. The 330i should have a low, medium, and high stage which means there are 3 stages and two changes.

As a note as well, I just took my 323i out and floored it in 2nd and 3rd gears and I am pretty sure it does have a 3 stage intake. There is a definate change in engine performance at 3100 rpm with the pedal floored and there is another change in performance that happens around 4300 rpm. This would indicate a low-med-high arrangement which is 3 stages.

I am still working on finding out if I can get Euro 325i software in my car to unleash the true potential of this 2.5 liter engine!

[tctic]

Originally Posted by epiphone3

not sure what the difference is between the "steplessly variable intake" and the 3 stage intake is...

I think that the 325i actually has a 2 stage intake rather than 1 stage. That is to say, there is one change in the intake, so the US 325i should have a low stage and a high stage and hence two stages. The 330i should have a low, medium, and high stage which means there are 3 stages and two changes.

As a note as well, I just took my 323i out and floored it in 2nd and 3rd gears and I am pretty sure it does have a 3 stage intake. There is a definate change in engine performance at 3100 rpm with the pedal floored and there is another change in performance that happens around 4300 rpm. This would indicate a low-med-high arrangement which is 3 stages.

I am still working on finding out if I can get Euro 325i software in my car to unleash the true potential of this 2.5 liter engine!

I am pretty sure I remember the US 325i has the one stage intake manifold and the Euro has the 3 stage intake manifold. But I believe the E46 325i had the 2 stage intake.

[E90Fleet]

Originally Posted by epiphone3

not sure what the difference is between the "steplessly variable intake" and the 3 stage intake is...

I think that the 325i actually has a 2 stage intake rather than 1 stage. That is to say, there is one change in the intake, so the US 325i should have a low stage and a high stage and hence two stages. The 330i should have a low, medium, and high stage which means there are 3 stages and two changes.

USA 325i had a 1 Stage intake ( no internal flaps )
Euro 323i has a 2 stage intake ( 1 internal flap )
Euro 325i has a 3 stage intake ( 2 internal flaps )
USA 330i had a 3 stage intake ( 2 internal flaps )

No for the fun part

USA "normal" 328i with N52KP engine has a 1 stage intake ( No internal flaps)
USA SULEV 328i with N51 engine has a 3 stage intake ( 2 internal flaps )
This is to help the lower compression SULEV engine to create the same power as the "normal" or ULEV one

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by E90Fleet

USA 325i had a 1 Stage intake ( no internal flaps )
Euro 323i has a 2 stage intake ( 1 internal flap )
Euro 325i has a 3 stage intake ( 2 internal flaps )
USA 330i had a 3 stage intake ( 2 internal flaps )

No for the fun part

USA "normal" 328i with N52KP engine has a 1 stage intake ( No internal flaps)
USA SULEV 328i with N51 engine has a 3 stage intake ( 2 internal flaps )
This is to help the lower compression SULEV engine to create the same power as the "normal" or ULEV one

and the Canadian 323i has 2 internal flaps, Fleet? This should be right since the part number appears to be the same as the Euro 325i.

[E90Fleet]

Originally Posted by epiphone3

and the Canadian 323i has 2 internal flaps, Fleet? This should be right since the part number appears to be the same as the Euro 325i.

Yes

[epiphone3]

ok... sounds like I may have found someone to load the Euro 325i software into my Canadian 323i.... anybody want to help me be the guinea pig?