[skinrock]

Does anyone know how long this product has been listed:

http://www.bavariansoundwerks.com/pr...es--M3-06-E9X/

Just curious if it just got added, or if it's been collecting dust for the past 2 years. They are going with the "when it meets our expectations" instead of a release date approach, so no help there.

Been wanting to upgrade my system, and the BSW package looks nice, but adding an amp would seal the deal.

[Atorsesh]

A loonnnggg time.. Don't hold your breath.
Chances are they won't ever come out with one. The BSW speakers aren't designed to handle much more power than what the stock system puts out and almost any aftermarket amp is known to blow them.

[skinrock]

Glad to hear that. Back to the drawing board it is

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by liliceman13300

A loonnnggg time.. Don't hold your breath.
Chances are they won't ever come out with one. The BSW speakers aren't designed to handle much more power than what the stock system puts out and almost any aftermarket amp is known to blow them.

agree on that it will come out too late

disagree on the fact that the BSW can't handle more power
i'm powering then with 50w RMS and they sound very good
that is the limit stated by BSW on one of the threads

sure if you hook them up to a XD600/6 and give them 100w you will blow them
but i'm pretty sure no 4" speaker can handle 100w rms
at least none that i've seen

[ctuna]

focals , morels and rainbows . There are pictures of them they all have large magnets and voice coils . Bin Xiu of Simplicity in Sound told me they were actually happier and sounded better with around a 100 watts .

Since BSW doesn't state the ohmage I guess you could assume they were 2 ohms
but who knows they could be 4

I though there was a thread that said BSW could handle around 50 watts from them

[Imperator]

They're 2-ohm drivers and should be able to handle 90-100W of clean power. I'm planning to drive a set of BSWs on my Zapco DC360.

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by ctuna

focals , morels and rainbows . There are pictures of them they all have large magnets and voice coils . Bin Xiu of Simplicity in Sound told me they were actually happier and sounded better with around a 100 watts .

Since BSW doesn't state the ohmage I guess you could assume they were 2 ohms
but who knows they could be 4

I though there was a thread that said BSW could handle around 50 watts from them

the focals are 40-50w rms, 80-100w max
the rainbows are 60w rms, 80w max
morels say they can handle 100w rms and 300 max (i doubt the 100w rms)
i'd bet if you gave them 300w they'd blow up in less than a second
the XD600/6 puts out 100w rms
so unless you have the gain set very low
you'll blow your speakers
i don't think any 4" speaker can handle 100w rms for more than a few seconds
unless you want to see smoke

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by Imperator

They're 2-ohm drivers and should be able to handle 90-100W of clean power. I'm planning to drive a set of BSWs on my Zapco DC360.

BSW have said it's 50w
i'm pretty sure you'd blow them if you gave them 90-100

[1QuikWS6]

JL XD600/6 Specs:

Rated Power @ 12.5V Stereo

60W RMS x 6 @ 4 ohms
90W RMS x 6 @ 2 ohms

Rated Power @ 14.4V Stereo

75W RMS x 6 @ 4 ohms
100 RMS x 6 @ 2 ohms


BMW Hi-Fi System (E87, E90, E91, E92) Specs:

6 Channels
10 Loudspeakers

• 2 treble speakers, front 26mm (1")
• 2 mid range speakers, front 100mm (4")
• 2 bass speakers, underseat 217mm (8.5")
• 2 mid range speakers, rear 100mm (4")
• 2 treble speakers, rear 26mm (1")

Bandwidth: 40Hz to 20000 Hz
Max Acoustic pressure: 104 dB
Amplifier power:
2x40W @ 2 ohm (Subs)
4x25W @ 2 ohm (Mids)


BMW Top Hi-Fi System/Logic7 (E90) Specs:

9 Channels
13 Loudspeakers

• 1 mid range speaker, front middle 100mm (4")
• 2 treble speakers, front 26mm (1")
• 2 mid range speakers, front 100mm (4")
• 2 bass speakers, underseat 217mm (8.5")
• 2 mid range speakers, rear door 100mm (4")
• 2 mid range speakers, rear shelf 100mm (4")
• 2 treble speakers, rear shelf 26mm (1")

Bandwidth: 30Hz to 20000 Hz
Max Acoustic pressure: 110 dB
Amplifier power:
2x70W @ 4 ohm (Subs)
7x40W @ 2 ohm (Mids)


BMW Top Hi-Fi System/Logic7 (E92) Specs:

9 Channels
13 Loudspeakers

• 1 mid range speaker, front middle 100mm (4")
• 2 treble speakers, front 26mm (1")
• 2 mid range speakers, front (shallow) 100mm (4")
• 2 bass speakers, underseat 217mm (8.5")
• 2 mid range speakers, rear sail 100mm (4")
• 2 treble speakers, rear sail 26mm (1")
• 2 mid range speakers, rear shelf 100mm (4")

Bandwidth: 30Hz to 20000 Hz
Max Acoustic pressure: 110 dB
Amplifier power:
2x70W @ 4 ohm (Subs)
7x40W @ 2 ohm (Mids)


> I haven't found any threads where BSW reported ANY specs on their speakers. When I asked them directly, they refused to give out any ratings stating that 'they won't advertise specs so other companies can't copy their speakers'

As far as I'm concerned, that's simply a ridiculous statement. Apparently they have a very high opinion of their product - more so than Rainbow, Focal, Morel, etc. that actually post their ratings. How posting ratings will make it EZ for others to copy their design is waaay beyond me

If anyone actually cared about copying their design (and I doubt it), all they would have to do is buy a set of their speakers and reverse engineer them.

I certainly am not about to throw down $524 for a set of speakers, with no reported specs or actual test data, just because the mfg. states they are 'an upgrade/improvement over the factory speakers' - of course they would say that


> They also refused to sell the BSW Logic7 Upgrade Mid speakers seperately. But where there is a will, there is a way. I found (2) eBay sellers selling only the BSW mids, new in factory packaging for $59/pr - both Shallow & Deep versions. For that price, I picked up a set of both for my E92 just to see how they will sound with the XD600/6 amp as a cheaper PnP alternative to other PnP speakers available.

If BSW statements are tru as to their speakers being an upgrade over the Logic7 speakers, one would assume that they are rated at least the same as the factory speaker ratings as posted above. Depending on whether they are actually 2 or 4 ohm versions is still a ??


> Since XD600/6 is rated for either 2 or 4 ohm there is no problem either way. At any rate, if you are an audiophile that simply wants to upgrade their amp/speakers to realize a better/cleaner sound than what factory items afford - then you always have the option of either just keeping the gains down or adding in a processor. That way you could actively limit the power output to each individual speaker if you want.

So if tuned correctly, you prolly can get 2X the Power Handling out of the Mids without blowing the speakers:

• Mids would prolly blow due to mechanical excursion before electrical damage because they have no Hi-Pass crossover taking the Bass out (unless tuned with additional Processor)
  
• Subs made for low freq. and not correctly rated, would also be more susceptible to damage due to overpower due to mechanical excursion, unless tuned by Processor

I should have no problem with the subs as I have the SWS8ix 2ohm versions.


> However, if you're one of those people that like to just add an amp with hi power to speakers not rated for same, with that 'hey, look at me' attitude, and your system cranked to the max & distorted all to hell, so that everyone can hear you coming a couple blocks away (which BTW, most people think is assanine) - then speakers not rated to handle the power are most likely gonna have a short lifespan...

Soon as I get these BSW mids installed in my system (if it ever stops raining here), I can report back as to my opinion

[Technic]

I have powered both the Morel Hybrid Ovation II and the OEM Individual Audio speakers with more than 100W thru the OEM wires... no blow ups, no issues.

The problem is to try to make a 4" mid to be a sub or a heavy midbass driver. That will blow the mid with even 50W some day.

[1QuikWS6]

I have powered both the Morel Hybrid Ovation II and the OEM Individual Audio speakers with more than 100W thru the OEM wires... no blow ups, no issues.

Yup, gonna set the XD filters and gains accordingly for the BSW to enable them to operate safely and see how they sound.

If they are a no go, I'll be trying out a set of Individual's as per your advice next

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by 1QuikWS6

JL XD600/6 Specs:
Rated Power @ 14.4V Stereo

75W RMS x 6 @ 4 ohms
[B]100 RMS x 6 @ 2 ohms

BMW Hi-Fi System (E87, E90, E91, E92) Specs:Amplifier power:
2x40W @ 2 ohm (Subs)
4x25W @ 2 ohm (Mids)

BMW Top Hi-Fi System/Logic7 (E90) Specs:
2x70W @ 4 ohm (Subs)
7x40W @ 2 ohm (Mids)
...
So if tuned correctly, you prolly can get 2X the Power Handling out of the Mids without blowing the speakers:

JL audio specs are RMS
BMW specs are MAX
so a speaker that gets 40w max can't really handle 100W RMS
and the logic 7 mids are already crossover over at 150-175hz so unless you're crossing them over at 400 (and what speaker will play 150-400?)
they won't last long with 100w rms

i already have the BSW speakers
and while they do sound very good with the 50w RMS i'm giving them
i know they can't handle more
this is based on their manufacturers specs
and when i tried to bridge channels to give them 100w

i'm just trying to save you some money
but if you want to try, go ahead

[1QuikWS6]

i'm just trying to save you some money
but if you want to try, go ahead

I realize that

I would just like to actually hear the BSW with both my factory Hi-Fi amp and the JL amp.

My statement above about BSW was not a hit on the quality of their product - I was just fairly discouraged that they refused to give me any info or sell seperates - but hey, I guess it's their company, if they don't need the $$, that's all good...

Actually, after receiving the BSW from the eBay seller, the speakers look to be well made. They do use a larger magnet than factory, but some of that is due to the differences in the type of magnet used between the two variations.

[skinrock]

I agree about not releasing the specs. Any speaker manufacturer should at least release RMS handling so you know what you can power it with. 99% of the people don't need full T/S specs, but like you said, if someone wanted to reverse engineer it, they could just buy one.

What about the JBL MS-8? I read this thread: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...highlight=ms-8

But what I don't understand is running the rear door and rear deck speakers in parallel to channel 6 and 7. If they are 2 ohms, that would present a 1 ohm load to the amp. I thought it was only 2 ohm stable.

Other than that, it seems like a good starting point to which I can add a sub package later on.

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by 1QuikWS6

I realize that

I would just like to actually hear the BSW with both my factory Hi-Fi amp and the JL amp.

My statement above about BSW was not a hit on the quality of their product - I was just fairly discouraged that they refused to give me any info or sell seperates - but hey, I guess it's their company, if they don't need the $$, that's all good...

Actually, after receiving the BSW from the eBay seller, the speakers look to be well made. They do use a larger magnet than factory, but some of that is due to the differences in the type of magnet used between the two variations.

i understand
its good to hear them with both amps
i'm just saying take it easy on them

i've had them for a few months
i think they are better quaity than the logic 7 speakers
their tweeters are way better than the logic 7 tweeters
and compared to all the other aftermarket speakers
they are a piece of cake to install
no mounting adapters, no custom rings, no modifying the OEM grills etc
just take out old ones and drop these in

i know someone from BSW has told me they can go down to 60hz (obvioulsy not if you're giving them more than 50w)
and they can handle 50 w rms
i'm sticking to both of those
i'm using 80hz @ 24db and 50w rms

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by skinrock

I agree about not releasing the specs. Any speaker manufacturer should at least release RMS handling so you know what you can power it with. 99% of the people don't need full T/S specs, but like you said, if someone wanted to reverse engineer it, they could just buy one.

hey if it works for bose
they never say anything but the power limits of the speaker
no freq response etc

[skinrock]

Originally Posted by skinrock

What about the JBL MS-8? I read this thread: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...highlight=ms-8

But what I don't understand is running the rear door and rear deck speakers in parallel to channel 6 and 7. If they are 2 ohms, that would present a 1 ohm load to the amp. I thought it was only 2 ohm stable.

Other than that, it seems like a good starting point to which I can add a sub package later on.

Sorry for the bump, still trying to figure this part out.

[VP Electricity]

What does the size of the magnet mean again?

There is a difference between a speaker not yet having failed with an aftermarket amp putting out more power than the speaker was designed for, and that speaker having been designed to work, and last, with that amount of power.

I've run 4" speakers with 100W RMS. Why wouldn't they handle it? Most 4" and most 6.5" have the same voice coil diameter - why would the cone size have anything to do with the Pe rating?

JBL says run the rear and rear sides in SERIES. That is, Andy at JBL, the product manager of the MS-8, told me that in conversation in regards to the very first MS-8 we put into a 335.

[kaigoss69]

You can run them in series or in parallel, it doesn't matter. Andy W. actually told me the opposite, that is to run them in parallel, and that's how I have it hooked up.

It probably is a moot point, however, since the rear channels on the MS-8 (when using L7 and set to DRIVER, PASSENGER or FRONT) only operate at a fraction of the level of the fronts, so the internal amp channels would not be stressed much at all under normal use of the processor.

If you're not sure, or you're paranoid about damaging the MS-8, just hook them up in series and it'll work fine.

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

I've run 4" speakers with 100W RMS. Why wouldn't they handle it?

well none of the Focals or rainbows can, at least according to their factory spec
focals all say 50w or 40w RMS max
rainbows around 80W-120 max (not RMS)
those were the ones mentioned earlier in the thread
morel i don't know. i've never used them and never will.

not sure about voice coil diameter, but for as long as i remember, power specs on 6.5" speakers were higher than 5 1/4, which were in turn higher than the 4" speakers.

[StatenEye]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

What does the size of the magnet mean again?

There is a difference between a speaker not yet having failed with an aftermarket amp putting out more power than the speaker was designed for, and that speaker having been designed to work, and last, with that amount of power.

I've run 4" speakers with 100W RMS. Why wouldn't they handle it? Most 4" and most 6.5" have the same voice coil diameter - why would the cone size have anything to do with the Pe rating?

JBL says run the rear and rear sides in SERIES. That is, Andy at JBL, the product manager of the MS-8, told me that in conversation in regards to the very first MS-8 we put into a 335.

Please answer my email... it was sent from michael.medeiros@credit-suisse.com asking for a complete system for my e92 HIFI w/ tweeters. i also started a thread..

[kaigoss69]

Originally Posted by medeiro

Please answer my email... it was sent from michael.medeiros@credit-suisse.com asking for a complete system for my e92 HIFI w/ tweeters. i also started a thread..

Perhaps he saw the video in your sig and you got blacklisted....