[cpa3]

My CA just informed me I would not be able to take advantage of the $1,500 Holiday Credit or the 0.9% financing if I order a vehicle. He indicated these incentives are only available on cars currently in inventory. Is he right about this?

I am leaning towards ordering a 328i xDrive car with 16” rims (205/55-16) instead of the 17” rims (225/45-17) that are currently part of the Value package. I am looking for the best possible ride quality. With the smaller rims, I think I would end up with about 10 or 11% more sidewall, which should help. I would appreciate feedback on this one way or another.

As of today, I am leaning towards the following color and options - Black Sapphire Metallic, Beige Interior, Auto, Premium, Value, iDrive/Nav, HK, Sat, fold down rear seats, heated steering wheel, 16” rims (not sure if it is even possible to order a car with 16” rims) and the alarm system.

After thinking about it for a while, the HPFP issue has pushed me towards a 328i xDrive. It's a trade-off, the throttle lag issue and the poor 0-20 performance on one hand vs. the risks associated with an unexpected failure of the HPFP on the 335i? Too bad the 335d is not available with all-wheel drive.

Thanks.

[Legion5]

Originally Posted by cpa3

My CA just informed me I would not be able to take advantage of the $1,500 Holiday Credit or the 0.9% financing if I order a vehicle. He indicated these incentives are only available on cars currently in inventory. Is he right about this?

I am leaning towards ordering a 328i xDrive car with 16” rims (205/55-16) instead of the 17” rims (225/45-17) that are currently part of the Value package. I am looking for the best possible ride quality. With the smaller rims, I think I would end up with about 10 or 11% more sidewall, which should help. I would appreciate feedback on this one way or another.

As of today, I am leaning towards the following color and options - Black Sapphire Metallic, Beige Interior, Auto, Premium, Value, iDrive/Nav, HK, Sat, fold down rear seats, heated steering wheel, 16” rims (not sure if it is even possible to order a car with 16” rims) and the alarm system.

After thinking about it for a while, the HPFP issue has pushed me towards a 328i xDrive. It's a trade-off, the throttle lag issue and the poor 0-20 performance on one hand vs. the risks associated with an unexpected failure of the HPFP on the 335i? Too bad the 335d is not available with all-wheel drive.

Thanks.

You seem to be making your buying decision based on a bit of poorly conceived thinking. Starting with comfort, have you actually driven the 2011 3 series? It has adjusted suspension tuning and everyone I know thinks the ride is comfortable. Even if you do want exceptional comfort, you're not going to get it from 16" wheels. The ultimate comfort will be gained from 17" wheels with aftermarket tires, specifically Continental DWS DW or Michelin PS2s among others. All of the most comfortable tires won't fit on 16" wheels for the 3 series. Furthermore if you oversize the tire diamiter even on 18" wheels you can have a ride that's ridiculously comfortable without making the car look visually unattractive.

Oversized 18" tires:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....omCompare1=yes

^The above tires will fit in the wheel wells fine and your spedomiter will also read more accuratly seeing as it's set 3mph under it will be .9 mph under with these. I honestly couldn't imagine anyone being disatisfied with a setup like this. You can go down an inch and up a profile but that would be overkill for the vast majority of the population.

Taking the HPFP issue as a serious buying consideration is also delusional. While on the road you have a constant chance of being involved in a fender bender that incapacitates your car for a week or more. Over the life of the car the HPFP issue statistically is on a much lower magnitude than getting into a fender bender and having to go to the body shop, yet the effect on your life is identical. If you really care about these effects, shop for a Volvo with lane and brake assist. Chances are in fact that you won't even experience the HPFP issue, as far as I can tell at most about 1:8 cars have symptomes, meaning 7 in 8 don't (mine doesn't and it has 50k miles) and the majority of HPFP issues aren't horror stories, and that's before they redesigned the pump, which seems to very substantially reduce faliures.

Hope that clears up some misconceptions.

Good choices on the options though.

[.:bHd:.]

Definitely bullshiting you and trying to push their inventory. You can even lock the holiday credit by placing an application and ordering a car.

[GreenThree]

Welcome! See my sig. Ordered a couple weeks ago. Your CA is giving you a snow job. If they have a car in stock that is similar to your specs - this could be an opportunity to get a great deal - because they do want to move inventory. If not, order your car and take advantage of the 1500 holiday credit. I did.

If you have not already test driven the 2011 328xi, I highly recommend doing so. The car drives smooth and has excellent ride quality. You will always feel the RFT's in a BMW though. (You could always switch to non Run Flat Tires)

16" wheels do not belong on a sports sedan IMO! Its nice that the 17s are now part of the ZVP (Value Package).

In terms of the "lag" you are referring to: Put the auto in "DS" mode. Voila! No more lag. The 328xi has more than ample power and is fast enough for me. Reliability was certainly taken into consideration when I made my purchase. GL - let us know how it goes

[stressdoc]

Tires will make a huge difference for ride quality. Just get non-rfts and never look back.

[cb1111]

Originally Posted by Legion5

Even if you do want exceptional comfort, you're not going to get it from 16" wheels. The ultimate comfort will be gained from 17" wheels with aftermarket tires, specifically Continental DWS DW or Michelin PS2s among others. All of the most comfortable tires won't fit on 16" wheels for the 3 series. Furthermore if you oversize the tire diamiter even on 18" wheels you can have a ride that's ridiculously comfortable without making the car look visually unattractive....

Say WHAT?

Of course ride comfort increases as the sidewall size increases and the equivalent tire in a 16" will be more "cushy" than the same tire on a 17" wheel.

That said, the best compromise between apprearance, comfort and handling is a 17" wheel. Much larger and ride confort and handling suffer.

Changing the overall diameter of a tire is not only a poor idea in general but may also lead to warranty woes - one of the few things that will allow the manufacturer to void the entire warranty for odometer tampering.

Originally Posted by Legion5

Taking the HPFP issue as a serious buying consideration is also delusional. While on the road you have a constant chance of being involved in a fender bender that incapacitates your car for a week or more. Over the life of the car the HPFP issue statistically is on a much lower magnitude than getting into a fender bender and having to go to the body shop, yet the effect on your life is identical. If you really care about these effects, shop for a Volvo with lane and brake assist. Chances are in fact that you won't even experience the HPFP issue, as far as I can tell at most about 1:8 cars have symptomes, meaning 7 in 8 don't (mine doesn't and it has 50k miles) and the majority of HPFP issues aren't horror stories, and that's before they redesigned the pump, which seems to very substantially reduce faliures.

Hope that clears up some misconceptions.

Good choices on the options though.

Yes, let's clear up a few misconceptions. I'm not sure where you got your "statistics" but you're full of hot air.

I've had two HPFP replacements in my year of 335 ownership and I've had no accidents but my car has been in the shop for a total of three months.

Most people with HPFP issues have not have an accident.

The HPFP is a real consideration. I'm not sure if it should stop someone from buying the 335, but it should be a factor in the decision making process.

[hipnotic]

+1

[Legion5]

Originally Posted by cb1111

Say WHAT?

Of course ride comfort increases as the sidewall size increases and the equivalent tire in a 16" will be more "cushy" than the same tire on a 17" wheel.

Sidewall isn't the only factor in how comfortable a tire is, the technology that goes into enhancing tire comfort is as important if not more so than the size of the sidewall. To restate what I said, the tires with the most advanced comfort technology do not come in sizes which fit 16" 3 series rims and give the apropriate outer circumfrence.

That said, the best compromise between apprearance, comfort and handling is a 17" wheel. Much larger and ride confort and handling suffer.

Changing the overall diameter of a tire is not only a poor idea in general but may also lead to warranty woes - one of the few things that will allow the manufacturer to void the entire warranty for odometer tampering.

That's absurd. Any change to the car beyond OEM would be a poor idea in general based on the standards you just outlined. There is no measurable or conceivable downside to having slightly larger tires excluding imperceptible performance differences to acceleration etc. No dealer in their right mind would consider that odomiter tampering, that would just be a monstrous thing to do considering the difference is so small. Even if they did consider it tampering the odomiter with the tires I listed would fall within legal accuracy requirements meaning that a dealer denying warranty coverage under your scenario would be legally wrong, in addition to being monstrous. Like I said the whole consideration is absurd.

Yes, let's clear up a few misconceptions. I'm not sure where you got your "statistics" but you're full of hot air.

I've had two HPFP replacements in my year of 335 ownership and I've had no accidents but my car has been in the shop for a total of three months.

Most people with HPFP issues have not have an accident.

The HPFP is a real consideration. I'm not sure if it should stop someone from buying the 335, but it should be a factor in the decision making process.

The HPFP is glass of water poured into the ocean compared to the typical woes of owning a car. Just because you had an extremely severe case of HPFP and no other issues doesn't mean the majority of cars are just like yours. I've spent a whole bunch of time dealing with dozens of issues with the 3 series. This is the 2nd 335i I've dealt with too. No HPFP faliures.

[jk335stl]

I too had the HPFP issue at 60,000+ miles and car ran in safe mode with loss of power very noticeable. Took it into dealer and was replaced in two days. Found out it had failed previous owner at 12,000 miles. Car back to running great.

[mike-y]

Originally Posted by Legion5

To restate what I said, the tires with the most advanced comfort technology do not come in sizes which fit 16" 3 series rims and give the apropriate outer circumfrence.

Can you please elaborate on the technology you are talking about, and exactly which tires come with this technology?

I'd like to read up on this.

[cb1111]

Originally Posted by mike-y

Can you please elaborate on the technology you are talking about, and exactly which tires come with this technology?

I'd like to read up on this.

Yeah - me too.

Methinks that poster is speaking out of an orifice other than his mouth but I'm interested in this technology that is only available in 17" and larger tires.

[Legion5]

Originally Posted by mike-y

Can you please elaborate on the technology you are talking about, and exactly which tires come with this technology?

I'd like to read up on this.

The specifics of tire technology are often closely guarded secrets. However, I've worked helping to design production supercars. One of the projects I managed was specifically choosing tires.

To make a long story tires which cater to the low profile sports car market have had significant R&D into improving their comfort. I've headed research which has tested literally every single tire available on the passenger car market as of 2007 in multiple profiles and the top tires oriented at low profile could deliver the same comfort as typical tires with at least 50% more sidewall. The top performers in comfort technology simply aren't sold in sizes like 225/50/16.

[bbbuzzy]

^ What are you smokin? Seriously! Also, your "statistics" don't exist. Show your source for the 1 in 8 HPFP failure rate. Why do you bother to make this SH&t up?

[Legion5]

Originally Posted by bbbuzzy

^ What are you smokin? Seriously! Also, your "statistics" don't exist. Show your source for the 1 in 8 HPFP failure rate. Why do you bother to make this SH&t up?

I'm done talking. You obviously know what's up. I'll just go back to smoking.

If anyone wants to discuss how I gathered statistics on the HPFP symptom rate. PM me.

[ninesixtwo]

A fleet/internet sales guy I was working with told me I would have to take delivery before the end of the $1500/0.9% incentive. Which makes sense given financing through BMW Financial Services happens afterward and separately from ordering and delivering the car. That could totally be wrong of course. In the end it didn't really matter for me so I wasn't that keen on figuring it out.

The configurator on the BMW USA website allows you to delete the Value Package and I don't see why you can't get your car that way. I think the 16" wheels actually look pretty good though I ultimately prefer the 17" and 225/45 tires on the Value Package wheels. Personally I wouldn't oversize tires etc. I have to say even though I am set on getting same-size Michelin PS2s and a Continental inflator I think the runflats are fine. I am still mulling over finding a set of take-off BMW wheels with stock Bridgestones and going with that for the convenience in the case of a flat. I actually can't say from experience that it would really be more convenient but I feel like they would work out fine too. If I were to change the suspension on my car though it is probably a different story.

edit: screw iDrive :]

[cpa3]

Originally Posted by Legion5

You seem to be making your buying decision based on a bit of poorly conceived thinking. Starting with comfort, have you actually driven the 2011 3 series? It has adjusted suspension tuning and everyone I know thinks the ride is comfortable. Even if you do want exceptional comfort, you're not going to get it from 16" wheels. The ultimate comfort will be gained from 17" wheels with aftermarket tires, specifically Continental DWS DW or Michelin PS2s among others. All of the most comfortable tires won't fit on 16" wheels for the 3 series. Furthermore if you oversize the tire diamiter even on 18" wheels you can have a ride that's ridiculously comfortable without making the car look visually unattractive.

Oversized 18" tires:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....omCompare1=yes

^The above tires will fit in the wheel wells fine and your spedomiter will also read more accuratly seeing as it's set 3mph under it will be .9 mph under with these. I honestly couldn't imagine anyone being disatisfied with a setup like this. You can go down an inch and up a profile but that would be overkill for the vast majority of the population.

Taking the HPFP issue as a serious buying consideration is also delusional. While on the road you have a constant chance of being involved in a fender bender that incapacitates your car for a week or more. Over the life of the car the HPFP issue statistically is on a much lower magnitude than getting into a fender bender and having to go to the body shop, yet the effect on your life is identical. If you really care about these effects, shop for a Volvo with lane and brake assist. Chances are in fact that you won't even experience the HPFP issue, as far as I can tell at most about 1:8 cars have symptomes, meaning 7 in 8 don't (mine doesn't and it has 50k miles) and the majority of HPFP issues aren't horror stories, and that's before they redesigned the pump, which seems to very substantially reduce faliures.

Hope that clears up some misconceptions.

Good choices on the options though.

I have test driven the 328i AWD several times. On two of those occasions (loaners for extended test drives), the car had 16" rims. Since I plan on using the all season RFT's throughout the year, I was wondering if a car with 16" rims (instead of 17" rims) will typically result in a cushier ride. That was my perception during the test drives. I don't know very much about tires and wheels - I haven’t shopped for a new car in 16 years and tires and wheels were not something I thought about for even 1 second when I purchased my ES300. I didn’t realize there could be such a difference of opinion on this issue. I just thought the additional sidewall would inevitably result in a more comfortable ride, especially with RFT tires. I am going to have to do a little more research on this issue.

As far as the HPFP issue is concerned, I am concerned the pump could fail without warning on a highway or on a left turn with oncoming traffic. I realize the risk of this happening is small because long cranks typically (but not always) precede the limp mode. I have no idea how easy it is to control a car which goes into limp mode in heavy traffic. The recent Nightline piece did not paint a pretty picture. I have gone back and forth over the 335i vs. 328i decision numerous times during the last 2-3 months. I suppose I am more risk averse than most people. I prefer risk averse to delusional.

[cpa3]

Originally Posted by .:bHd:.

Definitely bullshiting you and trying to push their inventory. You can even lock the holiday credit by placing an application and ordering a car.

Thanks, I went to a different dealership today and the CA I spoke to told me I could take advantage of the 0.9% financing and the $1,500 Holiday cash if I ordered a car by January 3rd.

[cpa3]

Originally Posted by cb1111

Of course ride comfort increases as the sidewall size increases and the equivalent tire in a 16" will be more "cushy" than the same tire on a 17" wheel.

That said, the best compromise between appearance, comfort and handling is a 17" wheel. Much larger and ride comfort and handling suffer.

Thanks for the feedback.