[carl_lazlo]

I have a 2007 e92 335i that is a little nutty in the snow. Although I have blizzacks on the car it still gets crazy when there is any snow on the ground. I have heard of people putting weight in the trunk of a RWD car to improve traction but does this really help?

I was thinking of going to the Depot and putting 5 x 50lbs bags of sand in the trunk for days that we get snow here in Jersey.

Will this extra 250 lbs help or am I wasting my time + money?

Thx!

[bronco]

a Dead Man's body in the trunck will improve traction...

[Trex]

5 x 50 might be a bit much. Put a 50 lb bag of sand back behind each rear wheel in the trunk. Try that and see how it works. Put the sand bags into heavy duty garbage bags ("Double Bag" theory). Carry a small coffee can and a garden trowel, too. The nice thing about sand is that if you're really stuck, you can open one of the bags ("Hey, smart idea to double bag it") and throw some sand fore and aft of a stuck/spinning tire.

Other tips for snow tire-d cars: keep the air pressure up. You get the maximum tread on the road surface with firm tire pressure. It is not the case that lower air pressure provides better traction with snow tires. And remember that tire pressure changes with temperature. Your tire pressure at 35 degrees will not be the same when it is 10 degrees. Also, watch how you park -snow tires are designed with thinner side walls, so be careful around curbs.

There is a lively discussion here and on other boards about how and when to use the DTC button in the snow. The only time I use it is when I'm really stuck in the snow and a little spin helps out (otherwise, the system detects wheels spin and won't allow the wheels to move at all).

[KEVIN88GT]

the more I read posts like these the more I realize that even good tired do little for a RWD car in foul weather...... I think that if I get a 335 coupe it will be the xi versionwhen it comes out in sept.

[Bimmerista]

Originally Posted by KEVIN88GT

the more I read posts like these the more I realize that even good tired do little for a RWD car in foul weather...... I think that if I get a 335 coupe it will be the xi versionwhen it comes out in sept.

Good tires actually do a lot for RWD (or FWD for that matter) cars, but there is only so much you can do when there is snow. There is no doubt that AWD has better traction ability in difficult snow conditions.

[xdrive]

Another reason to get the xi for people that live in snowy places.
Why are some people on this forum saying all you need are winter tires for RWD?
Seems like winter tires help, but not enough.
Good thing I have xdrive cuz weather in chicago is currently snowy and -1 degrees F!

FREEZING!

[Rover]

I've relied on good tires in Colorado to get my RWD 3 series through the snow. It is my only car. This is a snowy area. I drive 20k per year. It is my ski car too.

But this year...I did add 200 pounds or so in the trunk....as we've had a terrific amount of snow. This brings the wheel weight ratio over the drive wheels close to that of front wheel drive cars. All I can tell you...is that I have no problems getting around. That may have also been the case without the added weight. Some of that weight is a box of pea gravel...just in case.

As for the xi....a buddy has one. Better immediate traction...but like me he is limited to getting high centerred. IMHO...the xi has value..but with it you lose gas mileage...get added weight...and dry land handling is not like that of the RWD.

Just an fyi...a fellow I'm aware of... a knowledgable BMW employee, but not a sales guy...lives in the nearby mountains ...and is comfortable with a RWD bimmer as well.

[742]

Originally Posted by xdrive

...Why are some people on this forum saying all you need are winter tires for RWD?....

Because, unless you face some very serious hills that is all you need. I say this after 31 winters in the Northeast with jobs that I had to get too. Besides, as has been pointed out numerous times, AWD does nothing for your ability to stop and turn. Ask any body shop.

Winter driving does require a fine touch on the throttle, which is hard to do with an automatic and/or a high power engine. AWD does mitigate that problem.

[Lassaxi]

Originally Posted by xdrive

Another reason to get the xi for people that live in snowy places.
Why are some people on this forum saying all you need are winter tires for RWD?
Seems like winter tires help, but not enough.
Good thing I have xdrive cuz weather in chicago is currently snowy and -1 degrees F!

FREEZING!

Quite frankly, it seems to mostly come from people who have never been stuck before in a RWD car. Some people have never gotten stuck and don't worry about it. Others don't think getting stuck is that big a deal. I happen to think it is a big deal, and having experienced it many times, I won't buy anything other than an AWD car. In fact, I've actually grown to prefer the handling of AWD to RWD.

Make no mistake: winter tires do help. A lot. Especially when it comes to turning and stopping. But in truly poor conditions, sometimes nothing other that AWD (or really true 4WD) will keep you from having to walk home.

[shipill]

Originally Posted by carl_lazlo

I have a 2007 e92 335i that is a little nutty in the snow. Although I have blizzacks on the car it still gets crazy when there is any snow on the ground. I have heard of people putting weight in the trunk of a RWD car to improve traction but does this really help?

I was thinking of going to the Depot and putting 5 x 50lbs bags of sand in the trunk for days that we get snow here in Jersey.

Will this extra 250 lbs help or am I wasting my time + money?

Thx!

Buy a new tire chains ( made by plastic )

[F30Toad]

My E90 335i is the best snow driving rwd car I've ever owned. Besides my wifes SUV's and an S-10 blazer I had for 6-months, I have always driven rwd cars (24yrs of driving and 4 different 3 seires). It took a drift of snow that was high centering me to even think about getting stuck once I got the snows on. I got through none the less and have been driving around on snow for most of the time I've had the car here in Colorado. Don't blame the car, if you need awd or sandbags, it's not the cars fault.

[Majikthese42]

How old are your Blizzaks, and doesn't the sticky tread compound only go 1/2 way through?

http://www.bridgestonetire.com/winte...h.asp?id=facts

Volvos were all 2WD between the end of the last Ice Age and 1997, in fact they were all RWD until 1992 -- and still they managed to survive in Sweden with a lot more snow than New Jersey. So I am puzzled as to why you might be having problems.

[khafner]

I also live in snow country. We had a winter emergency today and most roads were closed. Three feet settled last nite. My e90 330i does great with snow tires x 4. Monday when I left work the snow was higher than the open door and I had to move it to close the door. Last week when driving home the snow was deep enough that it was coming over the hood. Speed more than 10-15 mph is not possible as you can't clean the window fast enough to drive. I even locked the brakes once and stopped as the window was plastered. By the time awd is needed there is no need to be on the road - you are not going anywhere anyways. I do keep a shovel in the trunk (a mountaineering one) but no sand. If I do put weight in the trunk I prefer kitty litter. If it spills it is easier to cleanup, sand gets into everything. A quick stop can break a bag. Yes I have gotten stuck, but not on public roads. Three times so far on my property. Once when I slid it off the driveway when trying to be a smartass and twice when I went thru the drift the snow plows left when entering my driveway - the snow covered the window and I had to stop to see. Now I back in, I can always see out the mirrors. That was in two - four feet of packed snow. My driveway is not your typical entrance. Its the outside of a 90 degree curve on a rural road and they really pile the snow up. AWD would not of helped me in those instances. I own two 4wd vehicles and yes they are parked. I'll take the fun and gas mileage and luxury of my rwd e90 all winter long. I had the 4wd vehicle as you can't get out of or into my driveway without snow tires on either rwd or fwd (when its plowed!). At the time I had gotten away from snow tires. Now we routinely go up and down a 50ft hill next to my house all winter.

[bavarian19]

Originally Posted by khafner

I also live in snow country. We had a winter emergency today and most roads were closed. Three feet settled last nite. My e90 330i does great with snow tires x 4. Monday when I left work the snow was higher than the open door and I had to move it to close the door. Last week when driving home the snow was deep enough that it was coming over the hood. Speed more than 10-15 mph is not possible as you can't clean the window fast enough to drive. I even locked the brakes once and stopped as the window was plastered. By the time awd is needed there is no need to be on the road - you are not going anywhere anyways. I do keep a shovel in the trunk (a mountaineering one) but no sand. If I do put weight in the trunk I prefer kitty litter. If it spills it is easier to cleanup, sand gets into everything. A quick stop can break a bag. Yes I have gotten stuck, but not on public roads. Three times so far on my property. Once when I slid it off the driveway when trying to be a smartass and twice when I went thru the drift the snow plows left when entering my driveway - the snow covered the window and I had to stop to see. Now I back in, I can always see out the mirrors. That was in two - four feet of packed snow. My driveway is not your typical entrance. Its the outside of a 90 degree curve on a rural road and they really pile the snow up. AWD would not of helped me in those instances. I own two 4wd vehicles and yes they are parked. I'll take the fun and gas mileage and luxury of my rwd e90 all winter long. I had the 4wd vehicle as you can't get out of or into my driveway without snow tires on either rwd or fwd (when its plowed!). At the time I had gotten away from snow tires. Now we routinely go up and down a 50ft hill next to my house all winter.

Please take money out of your checking account and invest in paragraphs... yikes...




Keep in mind... The problem is not always with the car. Many times it is the person behind the wheel. I drove a RWD car in NY growing up with all season tires and have never had a problem getting around. If the driver knows how to handle those conditions safely, getting around is not a problem.

[CirrusSR22]

You might want to consider putting some bundles of shingles in the back instead of sand bags. If you REALLY get stuck sometime, you can lay the shingles out like a sandpaper roadway.

[742]

Originally Posted by bavarian19

.... The problem is not always with the car. Many times it is the person behind the wheel.... I drove a RWD car in NY growing up with all season tires and have never had a problem getting around. If the driver knows how to handle those conditions safely, getting around is not a problem.

At the risk of thread creep, and with no reflection on the OP who seems to be having a specific issue, what you say is certainly true with regard to many of our fellow drivers.

We recently had our first snow of the season (it has been very dry). Out of all my 16 year old’s friends, and there seem to be at least 3,675, she is the only one who was taken driving. The only one. All I can think that either the parents are afraid of the stuff or oblivious to the need to develop some skills in it.

Maybe it should be a test. Anyone who looks on the floor and sees a “go pedal” and a “stop pedal” should not be allowed to drive in anything past light flurries.

[Lassaxi]

Originally Posted by E90Toad

My E90 335i is the best snow driving rwd car I've ever owned. Besides my wifes SUV's and an S-10 blazer I had for 6-months, I have always driven rwd cars (24yrs of driving and 4 different 3 seires). It took a drift of snow that was high centering me to even think about getting stuck once I got the snows on. I got through none the less and have been driving around on snow for most of the time I've had the car here in Colorado. Don't blame the car, if you need awd or sandbags, it's not the cars fault.

I don't quite know how to write what I'm about to write without it coming off as a bit rude, but please know that I mean absolutely no disrespect in any way. And, to the OP, I apologize for taking your thread off in this crazy tangent, but I promise this will be my last post on the subject.

I have no doubt that for most people, most of the time, RWD will do just fine in winter with snow tires. I have no idea what sort of conditions you or anyone else drives in, but I can say with absolute confidence that it is simply not true that good driving can make up for having 2 less driven wheels. I don't think it's blaming the car to simply point out that there are times and places where RWD (and probably even FWD for that matter) simply won't get the job done. I've been there.

The issue has very little to do with being high centered, and in fact, in my experience it more often arises on icy, hard packed roads than in deep snow. I didn't live in the snow belt growing up- I lived in the Hudson Valley of NY. We didn't get 4 ft. snow storms. 4-6 inches was a decent storm for us. But we got ice.

We had decent plowing, but relatively poor sanding/salting. And I lived at the top of a steep, hilly road. For years, my parents had RWD cars- MBs, BMWs, and even an old FWD Audi 5000 (unintended acceleration, anyone?). My neighbors had Volvos, Saabs, Toyotas, Buicks, etc. And, every winter, at least once or twice, we would all have to park our cars in a neat little line at the bottom of the hill and walk up in the freezing and blowing snow and ice. It didn't take much- you could go out for groceries before the snow started, and come back an hour later and be stuck. The issue wasn't high-centering, it was the lack of friction. You simply couldn't get up the hill unless you had AWD or 4WD (or chains- which were illegal, but some people used them anyway). Even then you still needed good winter tires.

The point I'm trying to make is simply the following (and this is directed broadly at folks who have made similar posts in the past, so please take no personal offense): It's great that some folks have had no trouble with RWD cars in the winter. But many of us have not been so fortunate, and the difference is not simply attributable to your being a better winter driver. You're right that a car is not to "blame" for getting stuck in the snow or ice, as the car is obviously not broken or damaged just because it gets stuck. But it is not fair to imply that if RWD has worked for you, it should be just fine for everyone else, and that where it doesn't, it's probably the driver's fault. That simply isn't true.

[bmargolis]

Originally Posted by carl_lazlo

I have a 2007 e92 335i that is a little nutty in the snow. Although I have blizzacks on the car it still gets crazy when there is any snow on the ground. I have heard of people putting weight in the trunk of a RWD car to improve traction but does this really help?

I was thinking of going to the Depot and putting 5 x 50lbs bags of sand in the trunk for days that we get snow here in Jersey.

Will this extra 250 lbs help or am I wasting my time + money?

Thx!

I drove 80 miles in the snow over the last week. I had NO PROBLEMS with my 335i with snow tires. That said, 100lb of weight will absolutely help traction as close to the rear wheels as possible.

[DocRoss]

I entice polar bears to carry the car with fresh smelt and an occasional cod. Works great!

[combatcarry]

Originally Posted by 742

... AWD does nothing for your ability to stop and turn. Ask any body shop...

AWD will help you turn. The powered front wheels will keep the front end straight and pull you thru the corner.

That being said... I'm still a fan of RWD. But, I have an old 4x4 to drive on extremely snowy days.

[FirstClass]

Originally Posted by khafner

By the time awd is needed there is no need to be on the road - you are not going anywhere anyways.

Entirely untrue. It can be icy enough that AWD will take you up hills you would slide down backwards with RWD and no snow on the ground. (Freezing rain)

Originally Posted by Lassaxi

In fact, I've actually grown to prefer the handling of AWD to RWD.

Nothing like AWD clawing it's way around an offramp in the wet.:rocks:

[DrDomer]

Originally Posted by Lassaxi

Quite frankly, it seems to mostly come from people who have never been stuck before in a RWD car. Some people have never gotten stuck and don't worry about it. Others don't think getting stuck is that big a deal. I happen to think it is a big deal, and having experienced it many times, I won't buy anything other than an AWD car. In fact, I've actually grown to prefer the handling of AWD to RWD.

Make no mistake: winter tires do help. A lot. Especially when it comes to turning and stopping. But in truly poor conditions, sometimes nothing other that AWD (or really true 4WD) will keep you from having to walk home.

I have driven rear wheeled drive cars most of my life. My first car was a 1986 Fiero GT 4 speed manual with all season tires. I lived in Iowa, and had many a winter of 12+ inches of snow that I made it through. I probably got stuck 2 or 3 times. The only time that car would bother me is going 60+mph on snowy highways (felt like a sled). Having cut my driving teeth in that car I can say the 335i coupe I have with winter tires is a piece of cake to drive in snow. We've had 6+ inches of snow here now, and the only way I think I could get stuck is bottoming out in a snow drift. Those of you that want a 335i for performance reasons are going to be disappointed come summertime if you have an AWD car. No specs are out, but I guarantee acceleration will be slower due to drivetrain loss in a 335xi vs 335i.