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      09-13-2010, 08:00 PM   #1
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1///M Reality Check

I think we have to pull back a bit and think about what the car is going to be like irrespective of our initial wish list.

At the end of the day, we know the 135i is a very capable car to start off with and power was never an issue, and make lag less and the power and torque even more usable will make it better.

What it lacked was a good track, suspension, and lack of LSD. We know BMW is going to achieve that.

Even if there's no CF hood, although I seems to think it's confirmed now, Scott has mentioned numerous times that making it light is important so we should expect a car that should have similar weight to the 135i.

It is disappointing with the colour choice and no DCT, but at the end of the day this car will fly compare to the 135i, and probably more enjoyable than the current M3.

Sometimes, we will just have to sit back and look at the facts that, it is still shaping to be one of the hottest car in the BMW lineup.

I personally would like to have my luxury with the car, as that is how I remembered the M3. A great DD that you can have great fun with. Seriously if we want a strip down version, I think it should be a separate line the M3 GTR where they will charge more, but warrant track use.

So, that's my 2 cents, and we should look forward to another piece coming off at Paris.
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      09-13-2010, 08:19 PM   #2
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Are you trying to talk yourself into buying one? If so just do it!
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      09-14-2010, 12:31 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparoz View Post
At the end of the day, we know the 135i is a very capable car to start off with and power was never an issue, and make lag less and the power and torque even more usable will make it better.

What it lacked was a good track, suspension, and lack of LSD. We know BMW is going to achieve that.
Exactly. The fact that it looks friggin awesome is just icing on the cake.
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      09-14-2010, 12:41 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparoz View Post
I think we have to pull back a bit and think about what the car is going to be like irrespective of our initial wish list.

At the end of the day, we know the 135i is a very capable car to start off with and power was never an issue, and make lag less and the power and torque even more usable will make it better.

What it lacked was a good track, suspension, and lack of LSD. We know BMW is going to achieve that.

Even if there's no CF hood, although I seems to think it's confirmed now, Scott has mentioned numerous times that making it light is important so we should expect a car that should have similar weight to the 135i.

It is disappointing with the colour choice and no DCT, but at the end of the day this car will fly compare to the 135i, and probably more enjoyable than the current M3.

Sometimes, we will just have to sit back and look at the facts that, it is still shaping to be one of the hottest car in the BMW lineup.

I personally would like to have my luxury with the car, as that is how I remembered the M3. A great DD that you can have great fun with. Seriously if we want a strip down version, I think it should be a separate line the M3 GTR where they will charge more, but warrant track use.

So, that's my 2 cents, and we should look forward to another piece coming off at Paris.
If this 1M produces only around 350hp, then it'll be really interesting to see it up against the 335is.
How much more performance will it have compared to that?
Your opinion, and why?

As far as luxury, our 1's aren't luxury cars. There's nothing more "luxury" in our 1's than what's inside a VW GTI with leather.

BMW may be a luxury brand, but the 1 and even the 3 are "near luxury" cars, especially when you compare then to what Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, and Cadillac put inside their cars, which compete with the 3 series price point.
I'm talking about "luxury" and what that is, with no comparison to anything related to driving performance.
I'm talking about heated and cooled seats, electric adjustable steering wheels, high end audio systems, leather quality, cabin functionality, electronics, interiior design and functionality, data screens-multi color, etc...

Our 1 has the "luxury" of a GTI, which is not a luxury vehicle. It's not even more "luxury" than a 370Z.
In that regard we're not even close to a TL, IS350, G37, CTS.

BTW, that doesn't bother me. I didn't get a 135i for it luxury or lack thereof. I bought it for it's performance.
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      09-14-2010, 02:15 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
It's not even more "luxury" than a 370Z.
I have to disagree with that. The 1er interior is much nicer than the 370z, plastic dashes aside.
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      09-14-2010, 02:53 AM   #6
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Here is your reality check, I think Advevo said it best...

The car is ///M pure says segler. ///M pure lets see ///M pure hmmmm...

E30 M3 ///M pure
E36 M3 ///M pure
E46 M3 ///M pure
M3 CSL ///M 300% pure
E92 M3 ///M pure
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      09-14-2010, 04:49 AM   #7
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When I said luxuries, I meant the convenient luxuries. I do miss a few things from the 3 like the better quality finish and the windscreen glaze. I do have to say the 'quality' of the 1 is definitely better than Golf, and the Lexus for that matter.

And if you want pure luxury in terms of quality and leather etc - look no further than a LR. S class quality even in a disco.
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      09-14-2010, 07:38 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
Here is your reality check, I think Advevo said it best...

The car is ///M pure says segler. ///M pure lets see ///M pure hmmmm...

E30 M3 ///M pure
E36 M3 ///M pure
E46 M3 ///M pure
M3 CSL ///M 300% pure
E92 M3 ///M pure
You might want to rethink the E36 one.

T
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      09-14-2010, 07:53 AM   #9
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In my opinion the 1M will live up to the hype of what a typical M car should be. The engine in the 135i is worthy of being an M engine in it's own right which is what made it such an appealing package. Take the 135i and add the typical M features - LSD, wider fenders, wider tyres, aggressive body kit, more power, quad exhaust etc etc - what else could we ask for? Sure for those of us who already have modified 135i's the jump might seem unnecessary but the reality is the 1M will be a much better car straight out of the box than the 135i. BMW are making cars like the 1M that we want to buy and I'm glad they are.

The 135i has been the range-topper in the 1 series line-up so I don't see why so many people are being so critical of a better, faster, lighter, more powerful 1 series car. I don't remember BMW ever failing with an M car. In my opinion, it's their bread and butter and what they are known for.

I know there are people complaining that the 1M is just using leftover bits from the M3 parts bin but who really cares if it's going to work? If they do it and pull it off then good on them. I think this car is going to be a complete beast and I really can't wait to see one in the flesh
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      09-14-2010, 11:11 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mangler View Post
You might want to rethink the E36 one.

T
But only rethink the US version ... the European version is pure ///M
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      09-14-2010, 11:49 AM   #11
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Ahhh, you are driving one is see. Yep, thats a keeper!

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Originally Posted by Madozu View Post
But only rethink the US version ... the European version is pure ///M
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      09-14-2010, 12:22 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
Ahhh, you are driving one is see. Yep, thats a keeper!
... the Euro version has 316hp@7400/260lbft@3200 compared to the US version which has 240hp@6000/240lbft@3800. Still big fun to drive despite the age.

Dampers and springs are more on the soft side ... but that was easy to change
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      09-14-2010, 02:27 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
Here is your reality check, I think Advevo said it best...

The car is ///M pure says segler. ///M pure lets see ///M pure hmmmm...

E30 M3 ///M pure
E36 M3 ///M pure
E46 M3 ///M pure
M3 CSL ///M 300% pure
E92 M3 ///M pure
You might want to rethink that
E30 M3 ///M 300% pure (last one produce in the M gmbh)
E36 M3 ///M pure 150% (euro)
Z3 M ///M pure 165% (euro)
E46 M3 ///M pure 165%
Z4 M ///M pure 175%
M3 CSL ///M pure 250%
E92 M3 ///M pure 100%
Serie 1 M ///M pure 50%
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      09-14-2010, 03:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MinusS50 View Post
You might want to rethink that
E30 M3 ///M 300% pure (last one produce in the M gmbh)
E36 M3 ///M pure 150% (euro)
Z3 M ///M pure 165% (euro)
E46 M3 ///M pure 165%
Z4 M ///M pure 175%
M3 CSL ///M pure 250%
E92 M3 ///M pure 100%
Serie 1 M ///M pure 50%
E36 M3 150% and E92 100%.... maybe you should turn those figures around and i think the 1M will be better than just 50% , for the rest your right
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      09-14-2010, 07:32 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
Here is your reality check, I think Advevo said it best...

The car is ///M pure says segler. ///M pure lets see ///M pure hmmmm...

E30 M3 ///M pure
E36 M3 ///M pure
E46 M3 ///M pure
M3 CSL ///M 300% pure
E92 M3 ///M pure


E30 M3 ///M 100% pure
E36 M3 ///M 70% pure
E46 M3 ///M 60% pure
M3 CSL ///M 80% pure
E92 M3 ///M 50% pure
1M ///M 80%(?) pure

You see the trend?
As you add more junk the car.. it's less pure.
Say NO to DCT and
more weight = less pure
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      09-14-2010, 07:55 PM   #16
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I don't know why so much emphasis is being placed on what is pure and how much purer a particular M car is over another. In my opinion it's really lame.

I doubt very few of us who have driven this entire line up of M cars extensively:
E30 M3
E36 M3
Z3 M
E46 M3
Z4 M
M3 CSL
E92 M3
Series 1M

Even if you have all of these cars in your stable unless you are talking hard numbers - horsepower, track times, acceleration times etc the "pureness" is all very subjective and will differ from one person to the next anyway. It seems like having a classic M car entitles you to some kind of bragging rights but why is this relevant anymore? I think you have more to brag about if you own a brand new M3 over an M3 from 20 years ago.

Why are we putting down a brand new 1 series M car that came out in 2011 and comparing it to an M car from the last century and saying although it exceeds it in every way it is not pure and therefore not as good?

The reality is the 1M needs to be compared to what is available today which includes all the new M cars in BMW's lineup and what's realistically available 2nd hand. To say I'm going to buy an E46 M3 over the new 1M because it is more "pure" is absurd to me. Everything progressively gets better, advancements are constantly being made and a great deal of R&D goes into these new cars. If being "purer" means having less features and gadgets but going around the track a lot slower then you have all lost me.

Now comparing the M3 to the M3 GTS is a whole new story. IMHO that is pure. Same goes for E46 M3 vs E46 M3 CSL!!

Last edited by BMW86; 09-14-2010 at 08:01 PM..
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      09-14-2010, 08:15 PM   #17
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Everything progressively gets better, advancements are constantly being made and a great deal of R&D goes into these new cars.
So you would claim that sports cars by the mid 70's were more advanced than those in the previous decades?

You statement is generally true, unless you introduce artificial parameters into the formula for creating sports cars. By the mid 70's hysteria over fuel prices, gas mileage, and safety had managed to set back the advancement of "the sports car" enormously. These artificial parameters should sound familiar to todays state of the industry.
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      09-14-2010, 08:18 PM   #18
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I have to disagree with that. The 1er interior is much nicer than the 370z, plastic dashes aside.
Fair enough. It's your opinion.
But, explain what's more "luxury" in the 1 than the 370Z?

From my experience the Z has all the "luxury" items our 1's have.
Some would even say the overall interior style is nicer in the Z.
Of course that is just personal taste.
But, what's more "luxury" in the 1?
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      09-14-2010, 08:23 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by sparoz View Post
When I said luxuries, I meant the convenient luxuries. I do miss a few things from the 3 like the better quality finish and the windscreen glaze. I do have to say the 'quality' of the 1 is definitely better than Golf, and the Lexus for that matter.

And if you want pure luxury in terms of quality and leather etc - look no further than a LR. S class quality even in a disco.
But, it's not I that wants pure luxury. I was addressing your point, that you want the 1M as a sporty "luxury" vehicle.
So I ask, what's so luxury about it?

Also, I said the GTI, which has a higher level of "luxury" items compared to the Golf. I too am speaking of the convenience luxury items.
The GTI has leather, heated seats, GPS, etc...
For it's price point the interior materials are excellent, as nice as anything in my 135i.
I didn't feel that the previous gen GTI was any less nice inside than my 1. And the new GTI is nicer yet.
The 1 series is simply not a "luxury" vehicle, and the 3 has competition that offers more convenience luxury items, like the items I listed.

The thing I'm getting at is, what is "luxury" in the 1, in the first place?

Last edited by RPM90; 09-14-2010 at 08:31 PM..
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      09-15-2010, 01:22 AM   #20
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I'll be comparing it to my Z4MC. If it can end up being as much fun to drive (or more) with a back seat, and a turbo (read: readily tunable) motor, I'll ED one.

If it's not as fun to drive, I'll pass.

"Pure" is very subjective, especially given we are not talking about a purpose built sportscar. Even the Z4MC, which was far and away the most purpose-built sports car BMW had sold in North America in a LONG time (if not ever) is not a Lotus Elise competitor. BMWs are called the "Ultimate Driving Machine"s because they are a complete package for the driver. I think my Z4 MC is quite pure when looked at this way, because it's very comfortable, it has a lot of cargo space for its size, it gets fantastic fuel economy for a car in its class, and it has lots of luxury features, but it also has a very well tuned tight suspension, good brakes, excellent cornering ability, good road feel, and an engine that's a joy to use.

Is it more pure than the E46 M3? It's lighter, it handles better, it goes faster, it stops better, it's faster around a track, and it's much more fun to drive. However, the M3 is more quintessential BMW. It depends on how you define pure.
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      09-15-2010, 01:30 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by E82tt6 View Post
I'll be comparing it to my Z4MC. If it can end up being as much fun to drive (or more) with a back seat, and a turbo (read: readily tunable) motor, I'll ED one.

If it's not as fun to drive, I'll pass.

"Pure" is very subjective, especially given we are not talking about a purpose built sportscar. Even the Z4MC, which was far and away the most purpose-built sports car BMW had sold in North America in a LONG time (if not ever) is not a Lotus Elise competitor. BMWs are called the "Ultimate Driving Machine"s because they are a complete package for the driver. I think my Z4 MC is quite pure when looked at this way, because it's very comfortable, it has a lot of cargo space for its size, it gets fantastic fuel economy for a car in its class, and it has lots of luxury features, but it also has a very well tuned tight suspension, good brakes, excellent cornering ability, good road feel, and an engine that's a joy to use.

Is it more pure than the E46 M3? It's lighter, it handles better, it goes faster, it stops better, it's faster around a track, and it's much more fun to drive. However, the M3 is more quintessential BMW. It depends on how you define pure.
Agreed. I loved my Z4M Coupe which I owned for a year and a half, and now I love my E46 M3 Coupe just as much. Neither is a better car, just different with each having some advantages over the other. I think the only reason I may prefer the M3 is once you give up the flexibility of the M3 and are committed to a pure 2 seater, I personally expect an even more focused and lighter weight product. For the 2 seater ethoes it is Porsche that has the best options, even if you are taking about on the cheap like my '75 gutted 911.

Last edited by HBspeed; 09-15-2010 at 01:37 AM..
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      09-15-2010, 01:44 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HBspeed View Post
So you would claim that sports cars by the mid 70's were more advanced than those in the previous decades?

You statement is generally true, unless you introduce artificial parameters into the formula for creating sports cars. By the mid 70's hysteria over fuel prices, gas mileage, and safety had managed to set back the advancement of "the sports car" enormously. These artificial parameters should sound familiar to todays state of the industry.
I know what you're saying.

Here's another thought, try and be open-minded and imagine if the E92 M3 somehow transported back in time to the days of the E30 M3. Which one would everyone pick? It's very obvious. It's not even a real question. You could imagine the looks on those peoples faces from that era if they saw an E92 M3 cruising around town. It would be hailed a supercar!!

The M cars have all been great in their own era and still have a place in the market today which is generally reflected in their value and price in todays market. I think it's almost offensive to think that such older generation M cars are being compared to the M cars being offered today... The latest and current M3 is a masterpiece and I expect it's successor to be even better.

I know certain cars have a soft spot in our hearts but imagine yourself in any scenario, on the race-track, driving around town, commuting home from work... E36 M3 or E92 M3? Which one? Anyone that goes for the former clearly has a soft spot for this car and holds sentimental value for it. I'm in no way putting down any of the former cars, just showing great respect for the advancements and improvements that have been made. If it wasn't for the past, we wouldn't be at where we are today. BMW have been at the top of the game with the M cars for some time now and every M has been a hit in it's own era.

The 1M is going to take the 135i to a whole new level and will be worthy of the M badge IMHO.
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