BMW 1-Series Forum (F20) 135i - 1Addicts.com > Second Generation 1 Series Forum > 2012 BMW 1-Series Sporthatch (F20) Discussion > 2012 a four banger??
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      05-31-2010, 05:35 AM   #1
MarcusDubya77
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2012 a four banger??

Is there any truth that the 2012 135i is going to be four cylinders??
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      06-01-2010, 01:19 AM   #2
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most likely a possibility...
They're sayin the M3 will move down to 6cylinders + turbo so yeah.

What you needa realise is that EU emissions guidelines are only getting tougher..
So the car companies are essentially being forced to become more fuel efficient..

Look at Ferrari
Why do you think they're suddenly looking into an electric ferrari option
Cause they're forced to... and it's even public knowledge that they know that & don't really care much for the topic either
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      06-01-2010, 07:01 AM   #3
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It would have to be rebranded as a 125, hard to get a 3 litre 4 cyl.
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      06-01-2010, 09:19 AM   #4
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Well, that's just crap. I have 25K invested into a prepurchase military program in the hopes that I can get a 135i w/ straight 6 plus turbos, not a 4 cylinder. How can this be?? When is the last run for the current model??
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      06-01-2010, 11:44 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcusDubya77 View Post
Well, that's just crap. I have 25K invested into a prepurchase military program in the hopes that I can get a 135i w/ straight 6 plus turbos, not a 4 cylinder. How can this be?? When is the last run for the current model??
You're already too late to get turbos, as the N55 only has a single, dual vane turbo.

There have been 3.0l turbo four cylinders in the past, various versions of the Porsche 968 come to mind.
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      06-01-2010, 09:43 PM   #6
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yeah but will the output be the same, and will it cause a dramatic increase in price?
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      06-01-2010, 10:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcusDubya77 View Post
yeah but will the output be the same, and will it cause a dramatic increase in price?
bro...

Volkswagen R32 3.2L Engine..
Superseded by
Volkswgaen Golf R .. 2L Turbo Engine, More Power

Seriously, don't underestimate advances in engine technology


re: price, cheaper if anything
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      06-01-2010, 10:47 PM   #8
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That was an NA 6 that went to a turbo four...Now were are talking about a turbo 6 going to a turbo 4?? Sounds pretty odd.
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      06-02-2010, 10:25 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcusDubya77 View Post
That was an NA 6 that went to a turbo four...Now were are talking about a turbo 6 going to a turbo 4?? Sounds pretty odd.
I think there are too many unknowns about the direction for the next 1er, much less the next 135i specifically. However, if some of the rumors about lighter weight prove to be true, it's quite possible that a turbo four could be more than comparable.

If the current 135i is 3,400 pounds (1540 Kg) and makes 300 hp (225 KW) (understated as it might be), then if the next car comes in at 3,100 pounds (1,400 Kg), you would get the same power to weight with about 275 hp (200 KW) and torque, numbers that Audi/VW, Subaru, Mitsubishi and Mazda already come near or surpass with four banger turbos. Let's not forget that BMW has made 1,100+ hp (800+ KW) four cylinder turbos for F1, I think they know a thing or two about four cylinders, take a look at the shape of their headquarters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_Headquarters

As the owner of a lighter BMW than the 135i, I'd much rather have a lighter car with similar power to weight than a heavier car with the same power to weight.
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      06-02-2010, 10:50 AM   #10
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I would like to agree, but it would be hard to sell the same car with the amenities that were offered before at a lower weight even with a I4 FI. This would be a total reversal on BMW's current platform. 75-100 lbs lost in weight from 2 cylinders being removed still doesn't really solve the question of how you re-engage the loss of torque and hp or increase the current figures unless you slap on a larger turbo....Alcohol induced answer!
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      06-02-2010, 11:32 AM   #11
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The current 1er is sort of a mix of E9x 3er chassis, with decontented suspension. Many of the lighter aluminum parts were replaced with heavier, and cheaper steel parts. Rumors point to the next 1er getting its own chassis, freeing up the ability for it to be significantly lighter than the current chassis.

The US spec Subie STi makes the same power (at different rpm) with a single turbo, 2.5l four as the N54 twin turbo I6, so there's no reason to think that it can't be done. You're correct that it would likely require either a larger turbo, direct injection or both, but it's certainly possible. You could also eject nearly 100 pounds (of rolling mass) just be dumping the standard run flats.
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      06-02-2010, 12:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
You're already too late to get turbos, as the N55 only has a single, dual vane turbo.

There have been 3.0l turbo four cylinders in the past, various versions of the Porsche 968 come to mind.
I believe the Porsche 3.0L I4 was NA, not turbo. I think it also was the largest displacement I4 produced/sold ever in a "high-volume" OEM vehicle.
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      06-02-2010, 12:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
The current 1er is sort of a mix of E9x 3er chassis, with decontented suspension. Many of the lighter aluminum parts were replaced with heavier, and cheaper steel parts. Rumors point to the next 1er getting its own chassis, freeing up the ability for it to be significantly lighter than the current chassis.

The US spec Subie STi makes the same power (at different rpm) with a single turbo, 2.5l four as the N54 twin turbo I6, so there's no reason to think that it can't be done. You're correct that it would likely require either a larger turbo, direct injection or both, but it's certainly possible. You could also eject nearly 100 pounds (of rolling mass) just be dumping the standard run flats.
I heard they were still going to offer the I6 turbo, but drop the base I6 and replace with a turbo I4 with around 250bhp. Of course, at this point it could all be conjecture, but future EPA mileage laws in the US and emission laws in Europe point to smaller engines/better fuel economy.
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      06-02-2010, 12:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
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I believe the Porsche 3.0L I4 was NA, not turbo. I think it also was the largest displacement I4 produced/sold ever in a "high-volume" OEM vehicle.
Euro Turbo S and Turbo RS versions existed in limited numbers, but most were naturally aspirated, including all US road versions.
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      06-02-2010, 12:27 PM   #15
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Euro Turbo S and Turbo RS versions existed in limited numbers, but most were naturally aspirated, including all US road versions.
Oh yeah, didn't think about any Euro only versions.
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      06-08-2010, 07:45 AM   #16
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scott 27 has written that the next-gen M1 will have a turbo 4 which i'm guessing will have 2ltrs. displacement; if that's true then i don't see how a lesser model(135?) could have a 3ltr. turbo! granted, the M would be lighter and revvier etc., but it seems inconceivable to me that the M would have such a "grunt" deficit relative to a lesser model. so that leads to the conclusion that all 1ers will have 4(or fewer) cylinders.

Last edited by hector; 06-09-2010 at 06:54 AM..
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      06-08-2010, 07:00 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hector View Post
scott 27 has written that the next-gen M1 will have a turbo 4 which i'm guessing will have 2ltrs. displacement; if that's true i don't see how a lesser model(135?) could have a 3ltr. turbo! granted, the M would be lighter and revvier etc., but it seems inconceivable to me that the M would have such a "grunt" deficit relative to a lesser model. so that leads to the conclusion that all 1ers will have 4(or fewer) cylinders.
Where is that on the forums? I haven't read that at all.
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      06-08-2010, 09:41 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hector View Post
scott 27 has written that the next-gen M1 will have a turbo 4 which i'm guessing will have 2ltrs. displacement; if that's true i don't see how a lesser model(135?) could have a 3ltr. turbo! granted, the M would be lighter and revvier etc., but it seems inconceivable to me that the M would have such a "grunt" deficit relative to a lesser model. so that leads to the conclusion that all 1ers will have 4(or fewer) cylinders.
I would say definently only if BMW hadn't done exactly what you mentioned up there with the E30 M3. It was a 4 banger even tho there was a 2.5 L I6 available.

I remember hearing that all F2x will be for bangers tho
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      06-09-2010, 06:50 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcusDubya77 View Post
Where is that on the forums? I haven't read that at all.
i read it on **************s.com but i forget exactly where; you'd have to search scott's posts.
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      06-09-2010, 06:54 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
I would say definently only if BMW hadn't done exactly what you mentioned up there with the E30 M3. It was a 4 banger even tho there was a 2.5 L I6 available...
good point; i actually was aware of that example but as i recall the difference in displacement was only 0.2ltrs. (2.3 vs 2.5); 2.0 vs. 3.0 however, seems untenable to me.
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      06-09-2010, 08:51 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hector View Post
good point; i actually was aware of that example but as i recall the difference in displacement was only 0.2ltrs. (2.3 vs 2.5); 2.0 vs. 3.0 however, seems untenable to me.
Mitsubishi, Subaru (non-US STI) and other cars have managed right around 300 hp and 300 ft/lb of torque with two liter fours. Of course I got 7 mpg on a tank of gas in an STI (US 2.5l) once, so it's not like going to a four will necessarily improve mileage numbers.
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      06-12-2010, 09:59 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Of course I got 7 mpg on a tank of gas in an STI (US 2.5l) once, so it's not like going to a four will necessarily improve mileage numbers.
The difference in efficiency on a displacement or cylinder basis is going to be negligible. The specific fuel consumption (pounds of fuel per HP produced) is roughly the same engine to engine. It is more a function of having to use that HP. The more you use, the more fuel you have to burn from any engine. Nothing is free.
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