How will M3 compare to the new M1?

[Robert]

Can of worms, here we go! The new M car is lighter, similar weight to hp ratio, and affordable. Which will take the throne as the new BMW performance king? How will M3 owners receive the new M1? Speculate away and we will revisit to see who's the most insightful when the car is released.

[brava09]

probably trade-in my M3 for the new M1 if it's so good....although the inline six turbo engine would be hard to digest after a screaming V8.

[niif]

I think one M series will have to be dropped for the sake of marketing.

M1, M3 , M5, or M6...

They should at least change the name on one of them; otherwise, buyers will be too uncertain about which M really suits their individual needs.
Just a thought, but I digress

In addition to the performance specs,I guess we have to consider what BMW might also be thinking as far as the best approach for marketing:

-Make the M1 better than the M3 and have everyone flock to the model to invest in the new innovation, possibly losing LOTS of M3 sales?

OR

-Throttle the M1 beneath the M3 so that fanboys aren't upset, knowing that faithful 1er owners will buy the new car anyways?

OR

-Give them nearly the exact same performance so everybody is competing with each other.

I say Option 3 because auto corps. sure do love inter-company competition!
I sense a huge rivalry between M1 owners and M3 owners hehe

[BBK]

M3 owners will just have to upgrade to the new M3 when it comes out in a few years :-)

[BMW86]

The M1 will have the same dynamics as any other M car and i don't think it will be too far off the M3. The gap in size between the 3 and 5 series is bigger than the gap between the 1 and the 3 series. I can see many potential M3 buyers now looking at the M1 and many M3 owners trading in for the M1. Also, I think it will have a lot more appeal seeing as though the E82 1 series itself is very reminiscent of the E36 series. The E36 was where it all started and if the E82 M1 comes onto the market it will fill that void. I think the difference between the 135i and the M1 will be the same as the 335i and the M3.

Who knows the M1 could do to the M3 what the 135i did to the 335i. Basically the same car, definitely not as pretty (but sexier than the 135i), faster, lighter, and more nimble, oh and it costs less too

If the M1 ever comes out, I'd get it over an M3 any day.

[sunking420]

It will all depend on the size of car the buyer wants. Go over to the M3 site, and there's plenty there that think the 1 is too small. On the other hand, there's guys like me who think the 3 series has gotten too big over the years, and welcomed the 1. Different strokes for different folks, and BMW was smart enough to have different products for lots of different desires. An M1 and an M3 will be great for brand exposure to an unknowledgeable public and put BMW front and center. They didn't get to be the "Ultimate Driving Machine" by doing stupid things. The 1 and 3 owners can duke it out in a really silly comparison anyway.......

[Alext]

I dont really see the point of comparing a N54/5-equipped 1 series with the M3. In terms of straight line performance a solidly chipped 135 will smoke a M3 and with suspension & tire upgrades it will rival its handling. There is no doubt about this.

The main two drawcards of the M3 at this stage are simply passionate ones...ones from the heart and soul:

1. That beautiful NA V8 engine noise
2. The badass exterior design of the M3

If I were to swap from my 135i to the current M3 these would be the two main factors that would sway my decision. If I wanted to go fast in a straight line I would stick with the N54.

The only *other* two things I can think of that would sway a potential buyer like myself to the M3 would be a) the interior space and perceived extra luxury and b) the M-badge.

Just as an aside, in my country the M3 coupe would cost an extra approx US$65k above my 135i at todays exchange rate. Would you pay the extra for the above? In the States, well of course I would fork out the extra what US$15-20k(?) for a M3...and if the M1 narrows the gap even further this would serve as further justification to spring for the extra cash to go for the V8!

[investor27]

Originally Posted by Alext

I dont really see the point of comparing a N54/5-equipped 1 series with the M3. In terms of straight line performance a solidly chipped 135 will smoke a M3 and with suspension & tire upgrades it will rival its handling. There is no doubt about this.

The main two drawcards of the M3 at this stage are simply passionate ones...ones from the heart and soul:

1. That beautiful NA V8 engine noise
2. The badass exterior design of the M3

If I were to swap from my 135i to the current M3 these would be the two main factors that would sway my decision. If I wanted to go fast in a straight line I would stick with the N54.

The only *other* two things I can think of that would sway a potential buyer like myself to the M3 would be a) the interior space and perceived extra luxury and b) the M-badge.

Just as an aside, in my country the M3 coupe would cost an extra approx US$65k above my 135i at todays exchange rate. Would you pay the extra for the above? In the States, well of course I would fork out the extra what US$15-20k(?) for a M3...and if the M1 narrows the gap even further this would serve as further justification to spring for the extra cash to go for the V8!

Are there any problems with the M3? The 135i has numerous problems with the HPFP that couldn't be solved. I heard that the 335d diesel engine has the twin-turbo, but NO HPFP problems, so I know that there is no problem yet with the twin-turbos, but I don't know whether the 335d has direct injection or not. I always wanted the M3, but I have been waiting to see if there are any mass problems like the ones found in the 1-series. Thanks.

[and 1]

i think the m1 will get dirty looks from the purists (read: elitist m3 owners)

as for the car itself, bmw will probably make it just a little slower than the m3. otherwise, why would anyone spend the extra money on the m3 if it wasn't "better"? with such a large car fleet, you end up building a car to fit a specific target/niche, rather than just developing the car to be as good as it can be

[KingOfJericho]

The M3 owners on this site are some of the biggest 1-series haters. They'll continue to hate. They don't care about the performance... they think the design of our cars is ugly.

[sparoz]

When you think about it, it doesn't matter where the M3 sits compare to the M1.

If current M3 owners and 135i owners going to the M1 = more sales for BMW. M3 is towards the end of cycle and sales will slow down anyway and we know BMW like to get into the niches of niches. That's their current philosophy.

My thoughts are the performance would be very close, and picking M1 and M3 would be like picking between a 135i and 335i like someone said before.

As BBK has mentioned, all the M3 owners who switched to the M1 would go back to the M3 in a few years time.

[dbtk]

BMW can strip down some of the features on the 1 Series M and keep the M3 more luxurious and feature rich to be an alternative to base 911s. Meanwhile, maintain the power level to 350hp for the 1 and intro the new generation M3 with 450+ hp to come out shortly after the 1 M. Once the next M3 is upgraded, BMW can ramp up the power on the 1 M to 380-400hp. And also keep the pricing at least $15-20K apart.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by investor27

Are there any problems with the M3? The 135i has numerous problems with the HPFP that couldn't be solved. I heard that the 335d diesel engine has the twin-turbo, but NO HPFP problems, so I know that there is no problem yet with the twin-turbos, but I don't know whether the 335d has direct injection or not. I always wanted the M3, but I have been waiting to see if there are any mass problems like the ones found in the 1-series. Thanks.

Diesels are direct injected, and have been for years.

the diesel engines don't really share much technology with the gasoline engines.

[BrokenVert]

My current idea is why not cater the M1 to the crowd of M Coupe and vert owners who are essentially ostracised by BMW right now. Make the M1 a raw performance oriented monster and keep the luxery in the M3.

This way both car can occupy their own niche and not interfere with eachother.

[anthony @ eas]

I'm guessing BMW will do what Porsche did with the 911/Cayman. BMW will purposely omit features and performance from the M1 to keep it on the bottom of the M totem pole.

[BMW269]

So M1 a true sports car, M3 a more luxurious one. And what about M6? An even more luxurious on? An whats than about the M8 if any BMW 8 Series?

[Robert]

M1 referred in this thread points to the M model based on E82 chassis, completely unrelated to the original M1.

[ihyln]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

The M3 owners on this site are some of the biggest 1-series haters. They'll continue to hate. They don't care about the performance... they think the design of our cars is ugly.

I think your perception is wrong about that but that's my opinion. Even I think that the 1er is a fantastic car. Anyway, most of the vitriol comes from 335i owners really. Don't lump us in that category with them.

[francoamerican]

Originally Posted by Levi

So M1 a true sports car, M3 a more luxurious one. And what about M6? An even more luxurious on? An whats than about the M8 if any BMW 8 Series?

I think it pencils out pretty clearly:

M1: in a class of its own (which is always a good palce to be) but in the same niche as the M3 of yore. Needs to be competitive with a Cayman but have the benefit of being more stealthy and the convenience of a back seat. The value is achieved by BMW's using an existing platform to soup up rather than a purpose built chassis. The compromise is that it's a compact car under all of that. Will probably cannibalize some M3 sales but will probably provide enough gross margin and new interest as to offset those losses.

M3: Again, is really in a class of its own - the ultimate all-rounder which is more grown up than the M1, a touch softer, but manages to be good at everything. The value again is achieved by BMW's using an existing platform to soup up (and their brilliance.) The compromise is that it's a compact executive sized car under all of that (which for some a compromise)

M5: The ultimate "business person" enthusiast car. Many of my colleagues perceive this to be the end all be all. Shows you've got money and that you like your cars but that you still have room to carry senior executives in the back seat to lunch. Traditional rival to the classic german sedans. Weight is the compromise here.

M6: Would compete in the traditional GT segment. Raw engine size, speed and comfort. Looks need to trump substance in this class. I think the 6 series is all about image.

M8: Supercar like a 911 Turbo or R8 or GT-R.

As far as the fastest top speed I would expect the goal would be:

M8, M6, M5, M3 and M1.

As far as fastest around a short track we'll probably see M8, M3, M1, M6 then M5.

[HPFREAK]

Originally Posted by brava09

probably trade-in my M3 for the new M1 if it's so good....although the inline six turbo engine would be hard to digest after a screaming V8.

I know what you are saying. I came from blown 03 cobra that sounded insane but honestly that got old. I like the more subtle sound and with exhaust these cars dont sound bad at all. I just got tired of having a car that could wake the dead. The M3's do sound really great though.

[Project1]

Originally Posted by niif

I think one M series will have to be dropped for the sake of marketing.

M1, M3 , M5, or M6...

They should at least change the name on one of them; otherwise, buyers will be too uncertain about which M really suits their individual needs.
Just a thought, but I digress

In addition to the performance specs,I guess we have to consider what BMW might also be thinking as far as the best approach for marketing:

-Make the M1 better than the M3 and have everyone flock to the model to invest in the new innovation, possibly losing LOTS of M3 sales?

OR

-Throttle the M1 beneath the M3 so that fanboys aren't upset, knowing that faithful 1er owners will buy the new car anyways?

OR

-Give them nearly the exact same performance so everybody is competing with each other.

I say Option 3 because auto corps. sure do love inter-company competition!
I sense a huge rivalry between M1 owners and M3 owners hehe

I agree with the first part of this statement for sure...and you know what it should be? The M6...no need for that thing, at all. Make it go away and focus on the broader sales the small coupes are going to generate!

[Project1]

Originally Posted by anthony @ eas

I'm guessing BMW will do what Porsche did with the 911/Cayman. BMW will purposely omit features and performance from the M1 to keep it on the bottom of the M totem pole.

+10000 to that. I read an article on the 911-engine-swapped cayman, and it beat it's big brother into the ground! No wonder they didn't put turbos on that guy...woohoo!