[Wolfman]

Coming from the states, I am sometimes mystified that a city with the size of Hong Kong has only a single bmw dealer network operated by Malaysia's Sime Darby. I understand single dealer monopoly also applies to other marques such as with Mercedes (Zung Fu) and Toyota (Crown Motors). Yes, the market is relatively small in Hong Kong, but even in a comparable U.S city, there are at least several different bmw dealers. My question is, why is this the case? Surely having a monopoly over an auto marque is contrary to the free and open competition so beloved by the HK government? Or does the first registration tax render the market so small that having more than one dealer for a marque will render all dealership unprofitable? I don't know, what do you guys think? I personally think having more than one bmw dealer would be great, as it can increased the customer's bargaining power and lower prices, if only by a little.

[little_croco]

it is the issue of how big the size of the cake over here to be shared by how many people. still, cars are considered luxurious, not to mention european branded ones. your same question should be asked to the greater market up there, but still, for "some" reasons there is only one dealer for the whole nation.

in some ways, advantage from monopoly is the "supposed" better focused resources (don't argue if it is true by Sime Darby) for the day2/day3 after-sales which is supposed expenses to run the business.

[E93DT]

Taiwan is same. Saw a lot of complaints about thier service.

[Wolfman]

Thanks, interesting response. In the states, cars (mass market brands like Toyota and Honda) are not considered luxurious, as most middle and working class people have at least one of them. They are regarded as vital tool of transportation as you cannot get anywhere without a car (unless you live in New York, which has the subway).

Bmws are considered luxurious like in Hong Kong, but over there it is more accessible. You do not have to be mega-rich to own a bmw, over here I get the feeling that most people own a bmws purely as a status symbol. They do not know anything about driving pleasure or handling. I see those tai tai 太 太 (housewives with rich husbands-hope I got the term right-still learning Chinese) that barely knows how to drive own a 335i here, and I always find it funny. I was laughing the other day when I saw one of those tai tai driving the huge S-class up a pavement curb without realizing it (Many own BMWs to show off in the states too, but there are also more true bimmer fans).

Hong Kong does have a vastly superior public transportation compared to the joke it is back in the States. Taking the MTR here is a joy, clean and efficient. I think that's the reason why the car market is small here. However, by lazzie-faire market competition which Hong Kong supposedly cherish, bmw should have more then one dealer in the city. A lack of true compeition means customers cannot get the best deal. There are nice roads in HK which I enjoyed alot, shame the lack of more bmw dealers makes it less easy to get a bmw to experience it.

As for China, I think it comes down to corruption and lack of proper market mechanism. A single dealer for the whole of China? Imagine the profit. Who cares about customer service when people simply flock to you. Once you hit it up with right people (guanxi), then competition is locked out and the market is yours.

[little_croco]

haha... "co-incidentally" some of us complaint or avoid their wives/gf to drive their e9x merely because scratching their rims

that's right, HK is just a small place and well connected by public transport. also with the cost to maintain a car here, even "mass market" brands like Toyota are not considered as necessities, as long as they are "cars".

[Renus]

The main and ultimate point is, HK is too small in size, just a "dust" on the earth's map. Now have been too crowded here even the have taxation rate has applied on imported car, but still very crowded especially when on public holidays.

And most of the family can only park 1 car in your car park, not like US, u can park more than 1 and even more, that's why your so-called C9 driving their husband's S class or 7.

I think you should take Japan as the compare object but no HK, it's quite weird to take HK for comparison, right?

[Wolfman]

I was making a U.S city comparison to Hong Kong, so I don't think it's weird. A U.S city of similiar population has more dealers then you have in Hong Kong. We are subjected to poorer service and higher price because of the lack of bmw dealer competition. True, our market is very small and perhaps not sustainable for more then 2 or 3 bmw dealer, but the point is that there should at least be a chance for other potential dealers to compete, this will ensure better price and service. Maybe we will end up with a monopoly anyway, but the chance of competitors arriving should at least keep the present dealer on their toes and ensure a certain standard of service. At any rate, It's better then the current system where a single dealer is appointed for the whole city. And as for those tai tai/C9, no offence, but some of them are truly lousy drivers. Don't they have chauffeurs to drive them around? If they can afford an S class or 7 series with the tax (1 million+ in total), then they can afford a chauffeur. Business or professional women on the other hand, are far better and decent drivers. Maybe because they drive the cars they earned with their own cash, so they treat it better.

[little_croco]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

I was making a U.S city comparison to Hong Kong, so I don't think it's weird in anyway. A U.S city of similiar population has more dealers then you have in Hong Kong. We are subjected to poorer service and higher price because of the lack of bmw dealer competition. And as for those tai tai/C9, no offence, but some of them are truly lousy drivers. Don't they have chauffeurs to drive them around? If they can afford an S class or 7 series with the tax (1 million+ in total), then they can afford a chauffeur. Career women on the hand, are far better and decent drivers. Maybe because they drive the cars they earned with their own cash, so they treat it better.

Hey Wolfman, I like your point

For chauffeurs, there are not that many nowadays, partly because we consider ourselves better educated (yes or no ) to become a chauffeurs, and perhaps jobs like that (e.g. secretary ladies mostly became administrators or being sacked) are more or less extincted due to economy... hahaha...

[Suri_]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

I was making a U.S city comparison to Hong Kong, so I don't think it's weird. A U.S city of similiar population has more dealers then you have in Hong Kong. We are subjected to poorer service and higher price because of the lack of bmw dealer competition. True, our market is very small and perhaps not sustainable for more then 2 or 3 bmw dealer, but the point is that there should at least be a chance for other potential dealers to compete, this will ensure better price and service. Maybe we will end up with a monopoly anyway, but the chance of competitors arriving should at least keep the present dealer on their toes and ensure a certain standard of service. At any rate, It's better then the current system where a single dealer is appointed for the whole city. And as for those tai tai/C9, no offence, but some of them are truly lousy drivers. Don't they have chauffeurs to drive them around? If they can afford an S class or 7 series with the tax (1 million+ in total), then they can afford a chauffeur. Business or professional women on the other hand, are far better and decent drivers. Maybe because they drive the cars they earned with their own cash, so they treat it better.

C9
C9 are all stick their chest to the steering wheel and drive 50 on a 100 road.
They park messy in front of the school and wait for their children,showing up who's S-class is better.
And,No offend too,coz I will be a C9 someday,I guess

[Wolfman]

Haha, suri, that's so true. To be fair, as I said, there are quite a number of good female drivers here (you included, assuming you are female?) but it's those C9s I have to watch out for.

This raises an interesting point, I'm sure you guys have been to the bmw dealer at Wan Chai and Hunghom, have you notice any difference with the Mercedes in CWB and the Audi dealer at admirality? Do BMW emphasis more on the driving experience then Mercedes and Audi? Or do they just sell solely on luxury and brand image like the other two German marques and Lexus? If they focus solely on luxury, then you know that the market do not care much about the performance and handling of bmws. Now I know there are many bimmer fans in HK, after all, there is this forum. But, how many of us comprise bmw's market in HK? How much larger are the "show off tai tai" market segment? To what extent does BMW hk target them as their main customers as oppose to us? I know where I came from, BMW is very strong in emphasizng their driving focus as the ultimate driving machine, because a large segement of the market go for BMWs because of it's sporty nature.

[Suri_]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Haha, suri, that's so true. To be fair, as I said, there are quite a number of good female drivers here (you included, assuming you are female?) but it's those C9s I have to watch out for.

This raises an interesting point, I'm sure you guys have been to the bmw dealer at Wan Chai and Hunghom, have you notice any difference with the Mercedes in CWB and the Audi dealer at admirality? Do BMW emphasis more on the driving experience then Mercedes and Audi? Or do they just sell solely on luxury and brand image like the other two German marques and Lexus? If they focus solely on luxury, then you know that the market do not care much about the performance and handling of bmws. Now I know there are many bimmer fans in HK, after all, there is this forum. But, how many of us comprise bmw's market in HK? How much larger are the "show off tai tai" market segment? To what extent does BMW hk target them as their main customers as oppose to us? I know where I came from, BMW is very strong in emphasizng their driving focus as the ultimate driving machine, because a large segement of the market go for BMWs because of it's sporty nature.

The market in Hong Kong is for ''luxury fans'' forsho.That's why you can see 120i all around in HK.I'm not saying 120i is not good,it's just...you know,If a person really enjoy driving,he/she wont pick 120i indeed
I can see ppl in BMW showrooms and road shows are all caring about the outlook,''Am I looking good when I sit inside?'',not everyone really care about the machine BMW really got.
But the thing is,Mercedes got a ton of fans like this too,A150...
and those S-Class C9s we talked about.
When the 1series out,I was like...errr,why?BMW is now collecting Honda Jazz's fans!?But as in business,that's good!even Jazz's owner might start thinking about to join the BMW family.
We can stick the reason why we get BMW and why we like it,just have to ingore the huge group of Show off ppl...

and yes,Im female

[Renus]

and yes,Im shemale, hehehehe, I can see that

Originally Posted by Suri_

The market in Hong Kong is for ''luxury fans'' forsho.That's why you can see 120i all around in HK.I'm not saying 120i is not good,it's just...you know,If a person really enjoy driving,he/she wont pick 120i indeed
I can see ppl in BMW showrooms and road shows are all caring about the outlook,''Am I looking good when I sit inside?'',not everyone really care about the machine BMW really got.
But the thing is,Mercedes got a ton of fans like this too,A150...
and those S-Class C9s we talked about.
When the 1series out,I was like...errr,why?BMW is now collecting Honda Jazz's fans!?But as in business,that's good!even Jazz's owner might start thinking about to join the BMW family.
We can stick the reason why we get BMW and why we like it,just have to ingore the huge group of Show off ppl...

and yes,Im shemale

[N52B30]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Coming from the states, I am sometimes mystified that a city with the size of Hong Kong has only a single bmw dealer network operated by Malaysia's Sime Darby. I understand single dealer monopoly also applies to other marques such as with Mercedes (Zung Fu) and Toyota (Crown Motors). Yes, the market is relatively small in Hong Kong, but even in a comparable U.S city, there are at least several different bmw dealers. My question is, why is this the case? Surely having a monopoly over an auto marque is contrary to the free and open competition so beloved by the HK government? Or does the first registration tax render the market so small that having more than one dealer for a marque will render all dealership unprofitable? I don't know, what do you guys think? I personally think having more than one bmw dealer would be great, as it can increased the customer's bargaining power and lower prices, if only by a little.

+1 Totally agree... it's a different experience buying a BMW in Australia/USA/Canada when you try to get the best possible deal (below RRP/MSRP) from different dealerships...

[94WK15]

HK is one of the cities with the most luxury cars.

Ppl in HK knows how to earn money and knows how to spend their money.

I believe HK can fit multiples dealerships but if prices were too competitive, our congested roads will only get worse.

Public transport in HK is wonderful, but taking public transport and driving can never be compared.

[Wolfman]

@94KW15

You are correct on the number of luxury cars in Hong Kong. Per capita, it has one of the highest no. of luxury cars I've seen. People here know how to flaunt their wealth and that's good in the sense that you get to see in person many high end marques like Aston Martin you will otherwise be hard-pressed to find.

Also, I agree HK people know how to earn money. They are extremely smart and know where the opportunities are. BUT, as to whether all of them know how to spend money, well that's very questionable in terms of cars. Buying a car to show off and buying a car to enjoy the driving experience are two diffferent matter (Yes, you can buy both for prestige and driving pleasure, but except for the guys and girls in this forum, that's hard to find in HK). For example, I see countless Ferrrai and Lambos in Hong Kong. It's good for me as I get to see those cars in person, but I really wonder how much their owners get to actually experience it's true potential. More often I see them stuck in traffic on Nathan Road in Kowloon or Henessey Road in CWB. Not much point to owning a Ferrari then, since there is not even a race track in the city. They just tell me they own a Ferrari to show off and probably know very little about the marque's history and performance.

Also, given the narrow and congested roads, I often wondered what point there is to owning those huge S-class or X6s I see in HK (Now I do like the X6 alot, but not very fuel-efficient for daily commute). It's utterly impractical, it just says "look at me, see how much money I have". They also however displayed their lack of true car appreciation. Personally, if they have $$$ and know cars, they should have gone for a M3 instead, it has the combination of practicality for daily driving as well as the performance to destroy those despised red minibuses. If they want refinment as well as driveability, nothing beats a Bmw sedan/estate.

Finally, yes, having more dealerships may only add to the congestion. But, Hong Kong is a free market after all, isn't that what our great HK gov't like to proclaim? If people want to buy more cars then no one should stop them. It's the market that make the decisions. It's demand and supply. Maybe HK is not such a free market after all with the dealership cartels you see here. On a postive note, the restrictions does show perhaps HK care about other things beside money. Protection of the environment through restriction of car use is no doubt beneficial for everyone. This stereotype of Hongkongers knowing nothing besides money is totally wrong.

[94WK15]

@Wolfman.

I agree not everyone knows how to spend their money wisely.

Ferraris and Lambos although you cant use its full potentials in HK some ppl may just enjoy the sound, the luxury inside and the short commute from point A to point B. But obviously there are some ppl who make the purchase to show off they can afford an expensive car. Even an M3 you can't use the full potential in HK.

To some ppl cars are like a hobby, it's like how some ppl purchase watches... those who can afford it purchase cars. I’ve noticed how some members here change their cars pretty often too.

My dream car in HK is a turbo. It's retarded since I won't be able to floor it but I guess every guy dreams is to have a luxury car once in a lifetime.

With regards to an S class, my family has one. You buy an S class not because you want to drive it, it's because you can be driven in it. They are really comfy cars to sit in. And obviously because it's safe on the free way when you are going 100+km.

M3 is a car to drive not to be driven in. S and M3 shouldn't be compared S and 7 is a different story.

We need a track in HK!!

[Wolfman]

Absolutely we need a track in HK, it's such a hassle to go over to Zhuhai.

As for the S class and M3, you are correct they belong to different categories and I wasn't making a direct comparison. It's just I see those big luxobarges on the narrow streets here and getting all the dents and chips from getting scratch on the narrow roads and I think is it really necessary to get such a big car? I think the E class or better, the 5 series, with comfort and performance, will do fine. And I just can't get away from the feeling that some of those big cars help with the owner's ego, no matter how impractical it is for HK.

If they know and like cars, the m3 is the best for hk. It's the car to get, you go buy groceries and hit the gas with it, you can't do that with the Ferrari. Yes, you can't hit full throttle, but it's also more practical and you can crush those red minibus who even tailgate you.

So you are not retarded to want a turbo, it gives you great torque and the latest generation of bmws with the twin turbocharger eliminates turbo lag.

[94WK15]

M3 is still a sedan.
It's like Z4 and M3. I don't think you get the same feeling.
I can't say since I haven't driven either of them.
But the close to ground feel I'd expect would be different.

But yes.. M3 is a great overall vechicle just like the C63 comparing sedan to sedan.
M3 coupe beats the C63 sedan.

E and S.. a little different but I won't go into the details.
Some ppl purchase S not because of the ego reason. We've owned the E and the S. E isn't as comfortable. We use our S to travel frequently to China. So I guess the story is a little different for us.

Hope they come out with a DCT for the turbo.

[Wolfman]

Well, if you do make regular cross-border trips, then maybe the S-class is better, the road quality on the mainland is not that great and the S-class's size gives you protection in the event of an accident, which is not that rare given how those mainlanders drive up there. But for HK, I think it's too big for the roads, unlesss you drive mostly on the highways. But oh well, whatever suits you. The S class and 7 series does have style, no question about it.

I've test-driven the E89 z4, it's really nice with a solid feel in the corners but I would still prefer the M3 through. I think the whole sedan difference is oversold. Considering the practical driving conditions in HK, the m3 is the best sporty car to get if you want performance and handling. It's not just for weekend driving.

You see, if we had more bmw dealerships, maybe we could have a cheaper M3 here! You never get to see a m3 in the showrooms here!

[94WK15]

Yes. The M3 is very practical for driving in HK.
If there were more bmw dealerships -> more m3 on the street -> more cars -> more traffic.
Haha I am for cheaper m3s but I'm against more cars.
They should give us bmw owners a bmw discount!!
Or bring in the 335d those should be fun to drive.

[whiteboard]

Hi there, I am new to this post and I havent logged on to browse the forum for quite sometimes, not very often to find a pretty long post like this but not discussing car related topic. Anyways just a few comments overall:

1) I think the mkt in HK is so competitive that if there is room for profit making, people will definitely step in and share the cake, who wont?. Since people in HK value a lot on reputation, under the high operating cost in HK and size of the cake, there is very hard to have to second dealer to me. There are a few big import car dealer in HK, for example the one for MB, they can offer some discount on new cars with more options compare to the dealer (Zung Fu) but still how many people will buy from them? People even talk about resell value long before they have really purchase.

2) I dont think more dealers will create more traffic congestion, no matter how many dealers around, it wont affect the number of cars you own. It still will be the same. You may argue, more competition will give you better in terms of pricing. But I guess room will be small, let say 5-10% discount ... will you consider to change your mind and buy a M3?

3) Cars always are a luxury product no matter where you are in the world or what culture you belong to. I dont see any sense of show-off by owning a BM or MB, even a Porsche or Ferrari. Chinese culture especially the HKese always believe European car is better than Japanese car, in some way I agree in terms of reputation, performance and the overall settings. Also not to mention nowadays the Japanese cars are not cheap too. Cars not like handbags, watches or clothing that you can own a lot at the same time, in normal circumstances, people will only own 2 or 3 cars max (of course besides those billionaire) at the same time, so why not go the best one which you can afford and enjoy the most.

4) This point very sensitive, really no offense ... I found it very funny when people said whether the potential of the car can be fully utilized. I guess no one can really bring out the full potential of their cars unless they put it on the track, even if u are on the track, you may not have the skills to carry out the full potential. So why bother to care about the utilization? For example, who dont want to have a bigger house in HK? Does it mean if I live in a 2k sq ft apartment rite now, should consider to move to 1k sq ft just to fully utilize the flat? Or lets think it this way, maybe the buyer is way too rich and would like to fully utilize his wallet a bit ... Just joking.

[Renus]

Yes, ppls is looking for quality of life nowaday, just like what "whiteboard" has said, u can't utilize even 1K sqt flat if u living only yourself, same story can be applied on M3 too. If I have a M3, I am not owning with flauting purpose but at least to fulfill my personal satisfaction. I can drive a M3 for usual daily use, or I can race it on street once I want to do so, but STILL, I can't fully utilize it's potential, am I right??

The best to compare the similar market with HK that's can be Singapore but not NY, small island and scarce roads & spaces, but crowded with ppls and cars.