[Snooky]

Guys n' gals

As you know I have sold my 335i and am getting an A4 Avant for the family car sometime in December. I am looking to P/X my wifes Honda FRV people carrier for a daily commuter for myself (happy to put a little money into the deal to get a nce fun little motor). I have looked at all sort of second hand motors and the values of small hot hatches are such that I am considering a brand new one with all the benefits of warranties etc - as I only keep cars 18 months/2 years it is easier to sell with some manufacturers warranty etc.

Right, I have been speaking to dealers this weekend about the following:

- RenaultSport Clio 200
- Seat Ibiza Cupra
- Alfa Mito 1.4T Veloce

All are in the £15k/£16k bracket new. The Clio is the drivers car of the bunch but is also the noisiest/least refined/most boy-racer (not too much of a problem as it will mostly be just me in it but I want my wife to drive it too and we have two little ones). The Mito is a fantastic looking car in my opinion (the miswah's preferred option) and the 155bhp feels quicker than it suggests on paper. The Ibiza is the most economical and has the (in my opinion) fantastic VAG DSG gearbox.

All three dealerships are offering the same money as trade-in for the Honda (within a couple of hundred quid anyway) and I would have to put £3k-£4k to land any of the above choices.

Anyone got any experience of any of the cars on the list (don't think the Ibiza Cura is launched until next week officially so I have not driven it)?

Any comments/thoughts appreciated!

John

[Rushall]

None of them! Get a used S2000 if it's essentially a fun run around for you.

[Em135eye]

Assuming it must be new?

Clio - brilliant to drive but dealers and quality are still DREADFUL. Avoid.
Cupra (from road tests) - quite good fun but the handling is a bit average.
Mito - mediocre handling, Alfa still build flaky cars but quite good fun.

I'd also look at:

Newish MX5 (or new if possible - the latest is very good again and Mazda are doing some amazing deals) - a mate of mine traded his in for an E46 M3 and missed it so much he flogged the M3 and got another one - huge amounts of fun (as was the last of the MR2s) and brilliant handling.
Corsa VXR - yes the image is dire but they are actually pretty quick and not badly made.
Fiat 500 Abarth - a bit flaky but fun to drive.
Mountune Fiesta - not that rapid but amazing handling.
Hang on for the Fiesta ST - might be a while.

[dxb335d]

Reading autocar review the mito drives like dog shite.

[Em135eye]

Snooky - The Times have a test today of the Cupra and your other two options are also theres - spooky!! They like the Clio best.

[Snooky]

Originally Posted by Rushall

None of them! Get a used S2000 if it's essentially a fun run around for you.

Hi Rushall - cracking car the S2000 but I do need a back seat for occasional ferrying of little ones.

Originally Posted by 335diesel

Assuming it must be new?

Clio - brilliant to drive but dealers and quality are still DREADFUL. Avoid.
Cupra (from road tests) - quite good fun but the handling is a bit average.
Mito - mediocre handling, Alfa still build flaky cars but quite good fun.

I'd also look at:

Newish MX5 (or new if possible - the latest is very good again and Mazda are doing some amazing deals) - a mate of mine traded his in for an E46 M3 and missed it so much he flogged the M3 and got another one - huge amounts of fun (as was the last of the MR2s) and brilliant handling.
Corsa VXR - yes the image is dire but they are actually pretty quick and not badly made.
Fiat 500 Abarth - a bit flaky but fun to drive.
Mountune Fiesta - not that rapid but amazing handling.
Hang on for the Fiesta ST - might be a while.

Dosen't have to be new at all 335Diesel - I have been looking at second hand ones (including the VXR) but they are very expensive and I would rather get a new car if we are talking £1k-£2k over a 2/3 year old one. I have considered all of the above - the Fiesta is very expensive for what you get (great looking motor and supposedly very good to drive too). I think the 500 Abarth is a bit too much for me with all the decals etc - they are cool inside though

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Reading autocar review the mito drives like dog shite.

I will look that out Carl - I took one for a spin yesterday and I quite liked it - I have owned an Alfa before and enjoyed it. It is difficult trying these cars as I am coming out of a 335!! Trying to be positive.

Originally Posted by 335diesel

Snooky - The Times have a test today of the Cupra and your other two options are also theres - spooky!! They like the Clio best.

Cool!! Will go and look that out now! Thanks! TBH I am not surprised that they have compared those three as that is the shortlist I arrived at after considering the options! - I have decided I want a small car as we are getting an A4 Avant which will be the main car. I will need to fit the little ones in - all three have isofix etc so that is cool. Ideally I would get a one year old one but the Ibiza and Clio are just out and there are no suitably specced Mito's available anywhere near me.

Appreciate all the comments folks - I'm away to find the articles referred to above!

J

[Andrew@DTUK]

Lots of engine problems with the Corsa VXR, pop over to VXRonline and search for "piston 4" - stay clear...

[dxb335d]

What bout low mileage clio 182.

[mikeysix]

the clio's a riot mate. would be my choice!

[Oli]

Clio - end of! What a fantastic little focus'd car, just a real hoot to drive, so confidence inspring, and will keep up will cars a lot more powerful/more money! Go for it, you wont regret it

[M3-FAST]

Originally Posted by Snooky

I have owned an Alfa before and enjoyed it. It is difficult trying these cars as I am coming out of a 335!! Trying to be positive.


J

Problem is the Mito isn't an Alfa from the ground up, it is essentially a Fiat Grande Punto with a different body on it!!

[Snooky]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

What bout low mileage clio 182.

Its a possibility Carl. Fancied the 197 but not many decent ones about up here and those that I have seen were expensive - I'd be better getting a new 200 tbh.

Originally Posted by ABYSSDTE

Lots of engine problems with the Corsa VXR, pop over to VXRonline and search for "piston 4" - stay clear...

Cheers ABYSS I had kinda ruled the VXR out on the grounds of it being a bit too boy-racer in image anyway.

Originally Posted by mikeysix

the clio's a riot mate. would be my choice!

Cheers Mikey!

Originally Posted by Oli

Clio - end of! What a fantastic little focus'd car, just a real hoot to drive, so confidence inspring, and will keep up will cars a lot more powerful/more money! Go for it, you wont regret it

Thanks Oli - I know you know your motors. This car will be used mainly as a commuter so not much opportunity for a hoon - I know from the feedback on here and elsewhere that the Clio is the best fast drive and I do like the look of it - I also really like the look of the Ibiza and I love the DSG box....

Originally Posted by M3-FAST

Problem is the Mito isn't an Alfa from the ground up, it is essentially a Fiat Grande Punto with a different body on it!!

Good point (and the same one that the SEAT dealer made to me this afty - and he has an adjoining FIAT franchise!!!).

Right, I think the Mito is out of the equation (unless I can get a really well-priced year-old one that saves me a few grand over the Clio/Cupra. The Seat dealer is very reluctant to do a decent discount so IF I go for a new one it is looking more likely to be the Clio. I will push the SEAT dealer and see if I get to a position where by I have a decision to make.

Cheers for the help!

[jjbirch]

maybe a powerfull golf could get in there, maybe tune up and some mods and it would be a good fun car to drive

[NFS]

Originally Posted by Snooky

Guys n' gals

As you know I have sold my 335i and am getting an A4 Avant for the family car sometime in December. I am looking to P/X my wifes Honda FRV people carrier for a daily commuter for myself (happy to put a little money into the deal to get a nce fun little motor). I have looked at all sort of second hand motors and the values of small hot hatches are such that I am considering a brand new one with all the benefits of warranties etc - as I only keep cars 18 months/2 years it is easier to sell with some manufacturers warranty etc.

Right, I have been speaking to dealers this weekend about the following:

- RenaultSport Clio 200
- Seat Ibiza Cupra
- Alfa Mito 1.4T Veloce

All are in the £15k/£16k bracket new. The Clio is the drivers car of the bunch but is also the noisiest/least refined/most boy-racer (not too much of a problem as it will mostly be just me in it but I want my wife to drive it too and we have two little ones). The Mito is a fantastic looking car in my opinion (the miswah's preferred option) and the 155bhp feels quicker than it suggests on paper. The Ibiza is the most economical and has the (in my opinion) fantastic VAG DSG gearbox.

All three dealerships are offering the same money as trade-in for the Honda (within a couple of hundred quid anyway) and I would have to put £3k-£4k to land any of the above choices.

Anyone got any experience of any of the cars on the list (don't think the Ibiza Cura is launched until next week officially so I have not driven it)?

Any comments/thoughts appreciated!

John

If this is purely for commuting how about downsizing further and getting a suzuki swift sport?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/dri...icle664487.ece

[Em135eye]

I had a Swift Sport as a courtesy car and it was very impressive - just thought it might be a bit slow?

I currently hate Alfas with an almost unholy passion. Apart from the stunning but flawed and horribly overpriced 8C, Alfa are churning out endless tarted up Vauxhalls that handle like a bowl of porridge, cost way too much yet the owners are convinced they are in something special. The Brera (think it's been replaced now) with 4x4 and a decent 3.2 V6 - 0-60 in over 7 seconds because it weighs a mildly insane 1800kgs for example!!

Add to that the fact that they are still very unreliable and I just cannot see a single reason for buying one apart from to try and look cool and for some misplaced loyalty to their heritage (which was once very good). Saab are similar too - rebadged tarted up Vauxhalls for 30% more.

[Walesy]

Clio, had a mid range model for a hire car and it was terrible, done approx 10k miles and was rattling and squeaking and the fit and finish was questionable. The dash and door cards were starting to go that shiny way, just very cheap and nasty I thought. The dealers are terrible to from what I have been told from people who own Renaults.


Alfa, hmmmmm, would stay away. Dealers are shocking and the build quality is iffy in my opinion. Basically the same floor pan as the Vauxhall agila and the same as a Panda aswell. Although, the electrics etc on a Vauxhall are a million times better.

Seat would be my choice, paint work isnt that great on them, very thin. But solid build quality and well finished in all areas (paint work questionable as said). Basically a Polo in a new dress isnt it.

[MOB]

I used to own a Clio 182 - one of the best cars I've ever been in if you fancy a mad thrash somewhere - they are awesome.

However the horrible seat position and unbelievably bad dealers meant I sold it after a couple of months.

I would say Fiesta ST Mountune - best allrounder?

[Snooky]

Originally Posted by jjbirch

maybe a powerfull golf could get in there, maybe tune up and some mods and it would be a good fun car to drive

JJ - I had a MKV GTi before the 335i and have had a look at both the GTi and the R32. Had a look at an R32 today actually on the way home from work! Having had a well specced one before I would want a well specced one again and they are pricey still - about the same 3 years old as a new version of the smaller hot hatches.

Originally Posted by NFS

If this is purely for commuting how about downsizing further and getting a suzuki swift sport?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/dri...icle664487.ece

NFS, I had thought about that and then clean forgot! That is a good review and I have just had a look and I could get a very nice one locally..... I bet its fun to drive albeit not quick. Definite maybe as I was looking to keep the cost of the second car down.

Originally Posted by 335diesel

I had a Swift Sport as a courtesy car and it was very impressive - just thought it might be a bit slow?

I currently hate Alfas with an almost unholy passion. Apart from the stunning but flawed and horribly overpriced 8C, Alfa are churning out endless tarted up Vauxhalls that handle like a bowl of porridge, cost way too much yet the owners are convinced they are in something special. The Brera (think it's been replaced now) with 4x4 and a decent 3.2 V6 - 0-60 in over 7 seconds because it weighs a mildly insane 1800kgs for example!!

Add to that the fact that they are still very unreliable and I just cannot see a single reason for buying one apart from to try and look cool and for some misplaced loyalty to their heritage (which was once very good). Saab are similar too - rebadged tarted up Vauxhalls for 30% more.

I love the look of the Alfas 335D but it is probably misplaced. The last one I had had a few electrical gremlins that I look back on fondly as 'character'. Annoyed the hell out of me at the time though!! I did consider a second hand Brera (as I like the look) but couldn't get over how slow/inefficient they are compared to BMW/VAG.

The Swift Sport is certainly not quick but was it a fun drive nonetheless? For the most part I will be pootling along on my commute at 40-50mph. The new Audi when it arrives is 211PS with 0-62 in 6.7 seconds which, although slow compared to the 335i, is plenty quick enough for me to have a fun drive.

Originally Posted by Walesy

Clio, had a mid range model for a hire car and it was terrible, done approx 10k miles and was rattling and squeaking and the fit and finish was questionable. The dash and door cards were starting to go that shiny way, just very cheap and nasty I thought. The dealers are terrible to from what I have been told from people who own Renaults.


Alfa, hmmmmm, would stay away. Dealers are shocking and the build quality is iffy in my opinion. Basically the same floor pan as the Vauxhall agila and the same as a Panda aswell. Although, the electrics etc on a Vauxhall are a million times better.

Seat would be my choice, paint work isnt that great on them, very thin. But solid build quality and well finished in all areas (paint work questionable as said). Basically a Polo in a new dress isnt it.

I must say the Renault dealer has not called me today as promised and the Alfa dealer has not emailed me as promised so not impressed with the dealers at all. The SEAT guy phoned me as promised but will not give me any real discount on the Ibiza Cupra so, if I went for a new one it would cost me £1,300 more than the Clio (which has a higher list price than the SEAT)...

Originally Posted by MOB

I used to own a Clio 182 - one of the best cars I've ever been in if you fancy a mad thrash somewhere - they are awesome.

However the horrible seat position and unbelievably bad dealers meant I sold it after a couple of months.

I would say Fiesta ST Mountune - best allrounder?

Good feedback MOB. Will have another look at the Fiesta Mountune.

[pjs]

civic type R ?

[beemerbird]

Civic R, yes good point. Bloke at work is getting one soon and appears from what he's said there's some decent deals to be had?

Otherwise the Fiesta imo.

[Walesy]

Gonna sound like a 'know it all' here but, my mate bought the latest Civic type R and a Tye S for his wife, had them 6 weeks and they were with Honda more than he had them, squeaks and rattles and other issues. Eventually he got his money back (after threating to take them to court and with lawyers backing him), but when he asked about the build quality lacking with Honda in there recent models (I had an 2005 accord prior to the BMW and it was shite, so I can relate). They told him it's all the recycled materials used now in the cabin interior. Plus there was a big thing a while ago on the net regarding very very poor paintwork with the Civic's.