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      05-16-2009, 02:20 PM   #1
lucid
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Limerock track report

A few forum members were at Limerock yesterday with their Ms. The weather cooperated and we had a good time. I had some registration issues, so my first session was a bit of a wash (distracted), and there was a lot of traffic, but things improved throughout the day.

This was my first time on the track with the Dinan springs and camber plates. My prior benchmark at Limerock was a PDA event, and things were moving much faster there (less of a skill/equipment spread among the cars on the track). Some qualitative observations instead:

1. The springs indeed feel a bit stiffer. How and if that translates to performance in the presence of some other variables that were different for the day is hard to judge as the stiffness difference is not severe. Putting in significantly stiffer springs would require messing with the dampers anyway, so as we all know, the next step is a quality coilover setup, which I don't plan to do on this car.

2. What is noticable is the effect of the additional negative camber. My fronts are currently at about -1.95 deg. This did make a big difference and reduced the understeer in the stock setup, which was kind of annoying. The car rotates much more freely now (I do have a 265/285 staggered setup) and the turn in is not as much of a struggle. The front tire temps were pretty even across both tires. So, this is a winner mod in my book.

3. The tires got pretty loose for the first time since they were mounted into the 3rd session. This was my 4th track day on them. I think this was the main limiting factor for me during the day (apart from myself!). They did not have the grip they had when they were fresh. I should note that they were not broken-in properly (long story which has something to do with the weather and my inability to drive with 3 sets of tires to the track earlier). It might also have to with me running slightly higher pressures this time.

4. As I mentioned in the other thread, HT10s scored my rotors badly (and faded) at the Glen, so I went with a slightly more aggressive pad, XP12s. Carbotech did not recommend changing compounds/brands without turning the rotors, but I thought the rotors were too worn to be turned, and just wanted to get one more day out of them, so I decided to try the XP12s. This probably does not result in optimum braking performance, but it worked out fine (I did bed the pads in off the track the day before though to make sure they were fine). XP12s kind of machined the rotors faces back to a more even surface and did well. They have high operating temps, but do seem aggressive on the rotors. I think I used about 40%-50% of them in 2 hours, but I haven't pulled them out yet, so can't say for sure.
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      05-16-2009, 02:36 PM   #2
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very nice. looks like you are getting a ton of track time lucid.
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      05-16-2009, 04:00 PM   #3
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great write up/video & fantastic driving...I'm still bummed that I couldn't attend...probably going to get my tint corrected next week
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      05-16-2009, 05:08 PM   #4
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Great job, Lucid. We need to meet up at a local track at a NASA/PDA event...it'd be nice to run with another E9XM. Your lines look good, car control is great...keep it up.
I'm jealous you had r-comps at LRP...great flowing track.
For comparo, my vid of last November with the car stock (except mufflers and Pagids/SRF)...

Fast times of day were low 1:04s.

What do we do differently?

Great job,
TomK
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      05-16-2009, 05:37 PM   #5
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Tom, I watched your videos several times a month ago to familarize myself with the track before my first drive there (had never been there), so they were a great help and I wasn't lost on the track then. Yesterday was my 3rd day at LRP. I will watch them again to see what we might be doing differently, but a few obvious questions:

1. Do you brake before the diving turn or just lift?
2. What is your braking point at the end of the straight?

It would be great to have you ride along in a PDA event and give me some advice! Will you be at NJMP Lightning in June?
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      05-16-2009, 08:30 PM   #6
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Wow, great driving.
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      05-16-2009, 09:27 PM   #7
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Just loved watching the video. You are so smooth. Thanks for posting!
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      05-16-2009, 09:40 PM   #8
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Car looked good out there. I am actually in your video, first time going through the downhill, red e46 flashers pulling in the pits. I was just under 1/2 tank and was getting major fuel starve issues through big bend so I just called it a day.
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      05-16-2009, 09:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
1. Do you brake before the diving turn or just lift?-slight lift coming down the hill, no brake prior to turn-in. At the bottom of the hill, when it flattens out, the car compresses on the suspension and gives you more grip than you'd think is available. It is at this point that you turn-in and roll on the throttle a bit to apex, then flatten it. Increase in exit speed is significant. My last session of that day, I only lifted there...the video I linked, you can hear the braking in the beginning of the session (pagids squeaking) but no brake later in the video after I passed my friend's Z06.

Where one can really make up time is the turn after the uphill, the right hander, really light on the brake there and slip'er through on the gas. Most drivers brake too much there and limit their speed down the hill...limiting their speed coming onto the straight....
Tires gave up (really cooked) late in the day and the car was sliding a bit more but very little braking going on here, really only before the hill and and the end of the straight...


2. What is your braking point at the end of the straight?
Here's where the re-pave messed me up...my markers were gone. After that day, and watching my tape, it looks like a smidge before "2". Progressively harder and then kick'er into BigBend. Here is another place where you'll catch many drivers. If you trail-brake there and get comfortable with the slip, it's like cheating.
I've yet to try the "inside" line there, though. The fastest laps I've ever seen...SpeedGT CTS-V and a few others have them hugging the inside of BigBend the whole way around. I don't know if it's the same now after the repave, though. I've always trailed it in to the outside and then kicked'er back in...worth a try next time.


It would be great to have you ride along in a PDA event and give me some advice! my pleasure...we'll have a blast.Will you be at NJMP Lightning in June?on the Sat and Sunday, yes, see you there!!!
Be good,
TomK
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      05-17-2009, 10:43 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
4. As I mentioned in the other thread, HT10s scored my rotors badly (and faded) at the Glen, so I went with a slightly more aggressive pad, XP12s. Carbotech did not recommend changing compounds/brands without turning the rotors, but I thought the rotors were too worn to be turned, and just wanted to get one more day out of them, so I decided to try the XP12s. This probably does not result in optimum braking performance, but it worked out fine (I did bed the pads in off the track the day before though to make sure they were fine). XP12s kind of machined the rotors faces back to a more even surface and did well. They have high operating temps, but do seem aggressive on the rotors. I think I used about 40%-50% of them in 2 hours, but I haven't pulled them out yet, so can't say for sure.

When you have time will you please post the ware results of your new pads. Thanks, and very nice video.

I am not familiar with LimeRock, however it looks like it is a 3rd/4th gear track.

vz
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      05-17-2009, 11:55 AM   #11
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Lucid,

Thanks for the video and I look forward to more information regarding the brake wear. Quick question... how/where did you mount your camera. I have one of the infamous I/O Port camera mounts, but without a roll bar or cage, it doesn't do much good. I'd like to take some in-car video at BeavErun and VIR. Thanks.

Dale
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      05-17-2009, 12:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monsta View Post
great write up/video & fantastic driving...I'm still bummed that I couldn't attend...probably going to get my tint corrected next week
We missed you Monsta. Gotta get things fixed ASAP!
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      05-17-2009, 12:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgdog View Post
Just loved watching the video. You are so smooth. Thanks for posting!
I guess I am OK, but I am not the smoothest driver I think. The first session in the morning was not all that smooth for me, but things got better. Also, things look much calmer/easier in these kinds of videos than they feel in person.
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      05-17-2009, 12:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drivrswntd View Post
Car looked good out there. I am actually in your video, first time going through the downhill, red e46 flashers pulling in the pits. I was just under 1/2 tank and was getting major fuel starve issues through big bend so I just called it a day.
I was wondering about what was going on with your car so early in the session. I am surprised you ran into issues with 1/2 tank?
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      05-17-2009, 02:57 PM   #15
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That was indeed a blast Lucid!!! Thanks for all your advice, insights, tools, .... can' t list it all. I really learned a lot, and I must say: what a car!!! It makes you think you are a good driver too quickly...

Although I will not be tracking as often as you, I look forward to seeing you soon again.

PS: so, is it a "ban" for Monsta?!?
PS2: I will send you the pics of the stoptech break kit as soon as you PM me your private email.
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      05-17-2009, 04:37 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ace996 View Post
slight lift coming down the hill, no brake prior to turn-in. At the bottom of the hill, when it flattens out, the car compresses on the suspension and gives you more grip than you'd think is available. It is at this point that you turn-in and roll on the throttle a bit to apex, then flatten it. Increase in exit speed is significant. My last session of that day, I only lifted there...the video I linked, you can hear the braking in the beginning of the session (pagids squeaking) but no brake later in the video after I passed my friend's Z06.
Interesting. I haven't considered lifting coming down the hill. I am usually on the throttle there, and then tap the brakes as the car settles down the hill before turn in. I'll try what you describe next time. I am not all that comfortable with the handling of the car at high speed turns. I do go WOT after the apex, but I suspect there is more grip/room than I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ace996 View Post
Here's where the re-pave messed me up...my markers were gone. After that day, and watching my tape, it looks like a smidge before "2". Progressively harder and then kick'er into BigBend. Here is another place where you'll catch many drivers. If you trail-brake there and get comfortable with the slip, it's like cheating.
I've yet to try the "inside" line there, though. The fastest laps I've ever seen...SpeedGT CTS-V and a few others have them hugging the inside of BigBend the whole way around. I don't know if it's the same now after the repave, though. I've always trailed it in to the outside and then kicked'er back in...worth a try next time.
So, that was actually kind of my contention with the instructor who rode with me during the first session. He wanted me to do the outside line. I thought he was asking me to go too wide, and another instructor was trying to show me more of the inside line the previous track day. This applies to the first turn in the esses as well--the left hander. I don't think going all that wide to ride the constant radius made me any faster. I actually think it made me slower, but no way to judge since I don't have a logger.

I'll PM you about the June event in a few weeks.
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      05-17-2009, 04:40 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by von_zoom View Post
When you have time will you please post the ware results of your new pads. Thanks, and very nice video.

I am not familiar with LimeRock, however it looks like it is a 3rd/4th gear track.

vz
Yes, it is a 3rd-4th gear track in this car.

When I pull the pads out later this week, I'll report their thickness.
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      05-17-2009, 04:42 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3V8Driver View Post
how/where did you mount your camera.
This works well. Some clubs are not allowing it if you have a passenger though. I mount it on the driver's seat and have it point it away from me.

http://www.cruisecam.com/
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      05-17-2009, 04:43 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTROIS View Post
That was indeed a blast Lucid!!! Thanks for all your advice, insights, tools, .... can' t list it all. I really learned a lot, and I must say: what a car!!! It makes you think you are a good driver too quickly...

Although I will not be tracking as often as you, I look forward to seeing you soon again.

PS: so, is it a "ban" for Monsta?!?
PS2: I will send you the pics of the stoptech break kit as soon as you PM me your private email.
I was great to meet you as well. PM just sent.

I think Monsta suffered enough, so we'll spare him the ban!
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      05-17-2009, 06:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
I was wondering about what was going on with your car so early in the session. I am surprised you ran into issues with 1/2 tank?
Yea I was just as shocked. I did some research and there is a $16 part I can get that was a oem baffle that bmw put on the e46 m but not the 330's so I am going to get that ordered and on before NHMS on June 6th. Wont really matter there though as there is no long sweeping rights. You going to that event?
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      05-17-2009, 07:07 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by drivrswntd View Post
Yea I was just as shocked. I did some research and there is a $16 part I can get that was a oem baffle that bmw put on the e46 m but not the 330's so I am going to get that ordered and on before NHMS on June 6th. Wont really matter there though as there is no long sweeping rights. You going to that event?
I'll be on travel then. I signed up for the July event though. Will you make that?
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      05-18-2009, 10:26 AM   #22
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Quote:
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I'll be on travel then. I signed up for the July event though. Will you make that?
Yup july 5th and 6th. I'll be there.
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