[EnI]

BMW plans to sell diesel-powered cars in US- report

by Reuters

LONDON, July 19 (Reuters) - German premium carmaker BMW (BMWG.DE: Quote, Profile, Research) intends to start selling diesel-powered cars in the United States within two years, using a urea-based additive to meet emissions standards, the Financial Times newspaper reported on Wednesday.

"Urea will take another two years but then diesel is really clean and can be sold in all 50 states," the paper quoted BMW sales and marketing head Michael Ganal as saying at the British Internatonal Motor Show.

"The U.S. is more open to diesel than two or three years ago."

Other carmakers, including DaimlerChrysler (DCXGn.DE: Quote, Profile, Research) and Volkswagen (VOWG.DE: Quote, Profile, Research), already sell diesel cars in the U.S. market, where diesel has never been as popular as in Europe despite its fuel efficiency and durability.

No one from BMW was immediately available for comment.


Remember my comment from March?

Originally Posted by GregA

Even with lower sulphur diesel the NOx emissions from diesel engines will be still too high to meet 2007 emission standards.

If the BMW Group is to enter the American market with a diesel product, it will be with one that offers a truly sustainable solution to meet emission standards.

BMW were impressed by Mercedes-Benz's BlueTec (SCR - selective catalytic reduction) system.

BMW sees SCR technology as a THE technology how to reduce NOx emissions - together with particle filter. However, this is a new technology, and it needs time to be fully developed.

The SCR system involves introducing urea into the exhaust gases from the engine to react with oxides of nitrogen (NOx).

Such urea injection system is a cost effective alternative to other NOx limiters (like VW's NOx storage catalyst).

The only question is whether drivers will be able to consider urea in a similar fashion like engine oil or transmission fluid. There will be an emphasis on the consumers to ensure their urea supply is maintained all the time. E.g. Mercedes' system holds the urea in a replaceable canister, from where it is injected into the exhaust system.

MB will launched the system in late 2006.

However BMW want to see how the consumers will react to this particulary MB's system - will they be willing to carry the burden to maintain the urea supply all the time (e.g. the driver will have to add the urea supply to special container under the hood or in the boot from time to time).

When the technology is excepted (MB's BlueTec is first attmpt), BMW will offer diesel models with SCR technology very soon. BMW have already started the development of their own SCR. The only question is how to implement urea supply system to keep maintainance & supplying as simplier & infrequent as possible.

SCR tech in detail:
http://www4.mercedes-benz.com/specia...x_nocom_en.htm

[Paul330d]

Congrats! Once you've tried 'em, you'll never go back to gas

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by Paul330d

Congrats! Once you've tried 'em, you'll never go back to gas

IF there is a 335d manual, I 'm going to buy one.

But there won't...

REVS are very important in my book

[stressdoc]

What is the reason why the 335d is steptronic-only?

Anyway, this is good news for BMW. I think it will be popular with the X5/3, and eventually in the sedans for both urban and long-distance commuters.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

What is the reason why the 335d is steptronic-only?
.

The ENORMOUS torque output at almost idle(600?Nm @ 1800RPM) won't be such a good idea for a clutch operated normal transmission.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Robin Hood

The ENORMOUS torque output at almost idle(600?Nm @ 1800RPM) won't be such a good idea for a clutch operated normal transmission.

But clutches to handle such torqu do exist, so hopefully they will bring a manual if/when it comes to the US. Realistically though, the diesels will probably only come to US as entry models initially (325d?). This is how other companies do it currently (DCX, VW -- Touareg excepted). Later they may add the 335d.

[Bimmerista]

I would buy diesel X5 or X3 if the price is not stratospheric (like the Tuareg V10TDI).

Unlike europe, diesel prices here are not subsidized (no tax breaks) and there are less taxes on regular gas, so the at-the-pump difference in price will remain negligeable. As a result the extra MPG will be the main selling point and I don't think that the market here will permit a premium to be charged for the diesels unlike in Europe. VW in Canada broke their back with the Tuareg-they sold very, very few of them, despite the actual impressive performance of the engine itself.

To sell diesels as a performance engine will take time (to have the market here accept that) despite the R10 successes.

[Paul330d]

Originally Posted by Robin Hood

The ENORMOUS torque output at almost idle(600?Nm @ 1800RPM) won't be such a good idea for a clutch operated normal transmission.

Exactly. That's why I got the auto on my 330d - even 500Nm is a bugger to change smoothly with a MT.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by GregA

"Urea will take another two years but then diesel is really clean and can be sold in all 50 states," the paper quoted BMW sales and marketing head Michael Ganal as saying at the British Internatonal Motor Show.

I heard the EPA hadn't made it's decision on Urea technology. Reason being that the car owner is req'd to periodically(sp?) replenish the Urea supply, and EPA wasn't thrilled with the idea.

[whippersnapper]

I thought it was bad form to quote yourself?

At any rate, I don't see many americans being interested in diesels

[noflash]

We all knew they were coming. We all don't care about urea.

[voltron1011]

Americans will love diesels as soon as word spreads about them. Americans love TORQUE, however they hate Ford F-350 diesel trucks that are loud and obnoxious, and give diesels a bad reputation. I think the word will spread over time and they will become very popular, especially when they find out the performance/economy ratio.

[voltron1011]

I'll take a 330d and get the wife the X3 3.0d.

[stressdoc]

I think the PR value of being able to advertise BMWs as Green will be huge. Like the hybrids, they will bring in a whole new clientele that previously would never have considered buying a Bimmer. BMW ads will highlight 3 series that get >40mpg, and SUVs > 30mpg. And then the 335d monster. It will help them avoid the manufacturer gas mileage penalty taxes they have been paying. All kinds of good reasons to bring a few over, even if they initially sell at a loss.

[Bimmerista]

I don't buy the green argument for North America for now- diesels are not seen as green here because of the image of the black-smoke belching trucks we all have.

It's the gas mileage and (eventually-after a strong marketing campaign) performance arguments that will convince buyers. Now I am not talking about us enthusiasts, but the other buyers out there.

The enviro green image has been captured to a greater degree by the hybrids, as well as the all electric all hydrogen etc. market. And yes Toyoda and Honda have more of this image now than the diesels will be able to bring to BMW in the short-term.

In the longer term as people become educated about diesels and how clean they will run, things will change.

[oilbelcher]

Originally Posted by Socom

I heard the EPA hadn't made it's decision on Urea technology. Reason being that the car owner is req'd to periodically(sp?) replenish the Urea supply, and EPA wasn't thrilled with the idea.

I say F*** the EPA. I'm sick of their limitations and love for power over the people. If its good for Europe, then why not in the US...:mad:

[oilbelcher]

Originally Posted by Bimmerista

I don't buy the green argument for North America for now- diesels are not seen as green here because of the image of the black-smoke belching trucks we all have.

It's the gas mileage and (eventually-after a strong marketing campaign) performance agruments that will convince buyers. Now I am not talking about us enthusiasts, but the other buyers out there.

The enviro green imae has been captured to a greater degree by the hybids, all electric all hydro etc. market. And yes Toyda and Honda have more of this image now than the diesles will be able to bring to BMW in the short-term.

In the longer term as people become educated about diesels and how clean they will run, things will change.

The people in the US can't become educated about diesels if the EPA won't allow us to try them.

[voltron1011]

BMW may need to put a little marketing lingo into it like Mercedes is doing with Blutech. Merc's adds really don't mention that Blutech is diesel; but they do mention high powered, ultra efficiant engines that are cabable of almost 40 mpgs.

[voltron1011]

I thought they had found a way around the Urea replenshment, by having the computer reduce the horsepower to the car, thus forcing the owner to take it in for service for Urea refill.

[noflash]

Even with urea and particle filters the diesels will never be Low Emissions Vehicles, i.e., "Green".

BMW can still be green with upcomming hybrids though.

[Bimmerista]

Quite right - I can't wait for diesels to come over here, since this hybrid crap is getting on my nerves as well. But there is an uphill marketing campaign we must recognise that the Germans (BMW, Audi, MB) have to do for the general public.

As well, let us not forget that the EPA is in fact right on this one-diesels in Europe until recently have been spewing particles in the atmosphere that are proven carginogens. The tighter particle emission standards in Europe, which will come into force soon, will force manufacturers to implement filters which remove these impurities (previously offered by the high-end manufacturers ar options on their cars in Europe). The EPA did not want to permit the sale of diesels which did not respect the new particle emission norms.

I agree with this.

[akhbhaat]

Modern diesels, while significantly better than their old smoke belching predecessors, are still overrated. They still have all the old limitations (greasy fuel, smell, rattling, smoking etc) - they're just not as obvious or distracting as before. People who are enamored with the sound or feel of a naturally aspirated gas engine (i.e. the qualities BMW's straight sixes are typically cited for) will NOT like diesels! There's a reason why people still buy so many gasoline powered cars in Europe despite the obvious practical advantages of diesel.

I do think there's a market for them in the US today, and will be an even bigger market as time goes on, because gas prices will almost certainly continue to be an issue. Of course, as previously mentioned, there are no subsidies for diesel fuel in the US - in some cases, you will pay at least as much (or more) for a gallon of diesel as you do for a gallon of unleaded. Subsequently, the fuel economy argument won't be as strong as it would be otherwise. Furthermore, people expecting Jetta TDI-like fuel economy out of a performance diesel like the 330d/335d are going to be disappointed.

In any case, gasoline engines should continue to reign supreme in the US for the foreseeable future.