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      02-23-2009, 06:30 PM   #1
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Fabspeed Header

http://www.fabspeed.com/BMW.html

Okay- so headers have been talked to death lately but I like the idea of a high quality header that does not break the bank so how about this? My neighbor has a full fabspeed exhaust on his 997 and it sounds great. If not this one then, which one. It seems like agency power is no different than JVT except in price (not that JVT is bad by the way...just trying to figure out what middle of the road is).
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      02-23-2009, 06:37 PM   #2
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That looks pretty nice... made out of 304 as well.
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      02-24-2009, 06:22 PM   #3
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Yeah they seem pretty nice but no comment so I guess they are relatively unknown in the BMW land. They are highly regarded in porsche circles.
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      02-24-2009, 09:51 PM   #4
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spend a couple hours of your free time researching headers over on m3forum.net. your best bet to find reviews would be over there.
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      02-25-2009, 01:16 AM   #5
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fabspeed?

bank is broken. ebay headers are $200 and have been proven by fellow board members here that they work well, especially at the price you pay.
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      02-25-2009, 01:55 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbdm4k View Post
fabspeed?

bank is broken. ebay headers are $200 and have been proven by fellow board members here that they work well, especially at the price you pay.
Dude... your point on cost is understood... however. I think you're missing the point on us wanting to buy a quality header. The only cons to a quality built / designed stainless steel SS or other quality brand header are cost.

The cons to ebay headers are....

1. Made out of shitty thin-wall steel = Causing them to crack a lot easier, & rust easily
2. Probably not welded very well = Causing them to crack due to poor weld penetration.
3. Unflush & uneven flanges = Doesn't seal properly causing loss of power.
4. Copied instead of designed = The person ripping it off probably doesn't realize ( or care ) that if they change anything tubing design wise... it causes a LOSS in power.
5. Look inside the merge collectors and see how smooth they are and if any toothpaste welds are in there as well. If they are... it's making a LOSS in power.
6. If they're Jet Coated, they'll crack easier, because the thin steel can't handle the extra heat, just like if you were to wrap them with header tape.

And last but not least.... Because I don't want a cheap piece of sweatshop crap on my car. It's a nice car, that should be accented with nice parts. Not some hunk of shit you'd put on a civic.

If you want a cheap e-bay knockoff, so be it. It's understandable not everyone will be able to drop 2+K on a header, and that's totally cool. But don't sit here and insinuate that it's the same shit... cuz it ain't.
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      02-25-2009, 06:40 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkz4mc View Post
Dude... your point on cost is understood... however. I think you're missing the point on us wanting to buy a quality header. The only cons to a quality built / designed stainless steel SS or other quality brand header are cost.

The cons to ebay headers are....

1. Made out of shitty thin-wall steel = Causing them to crack a lot easier, & rust easily
2. Probably not welded very well = Causing them to crack due to poor weld penetration.
3. Unflush & uneven flanges = Doesn't seal properly causing loss of power.
4. Copied instead of designed = The person ripping it off probably doesn't realize ( or care ) that if they change anything tubing design wise... it causes a LOSS in power.
5. Look inside the merge collectors and see how smooth they are and if any toothpaste welds are in there as well. If they are... it's making a LOSS in power.
6. If they're Jet Coated, they'll crack easier, because the thin steel can't handle the extra heat, just like if you were to wrap them with header tape.

And last but not least.... Because I don't want a cheap piece of sweatshop crap on my car. It's a nice car, that should be accented with nice parts. Not some hunk of shit you'd put on a civic.

If you want a cheap e-bay knockoff, so be it. It's understandable not everyone will be able to drop 2+K on a header, and that's totally cool. But don't sit here and insinuate that it's the same shit... cuz it ain't.
all good points. but i have yet to see someones ebay headers crack. Ive seen pics of ebay headers after 30K miles including track miles and they look pretty good. a friend of mine has had ebay headers for 20k and no problems.
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      02-25-2009, 06:43 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkz4mc View Post
Dude... your point on cost is understood... however. I think you're missing the point on us wanting to buy a quality header. The only cons to a quality built / designed stainless steel SS or other quality brand header are cost.

The cons to ebay headers are....

1. Made out of shitty thin-wall steel = Causing them to crack a lot easier, & rust easily
2. Probably not welded very well = Causing them to crack due to poor weld penetration.
3. Unflush & uneven flanges = Doesn't seal properly causing loss of power.
4. Copied instead of designed = The person ripping it off probably doesn't realize ( or care ) that if they change anything tubing design wise... it causes a LOSS in power.
5. Look inside the merge collectors and see how smooth they are and if any toothpaste welds are in there as well. If they are... it's making a LOSS in power.
6. If they're Jet Coated, they'll crack easier, because the thin steel can't handle the extra heat, just like if you were to wrap them with header tape.

And last but not least.... Because I don't want a cheap piece of sweatshop crap on my car. It's a nice car, that should be accented with nice parts. Not some hunk of shit you'd put on a civic.

If you want a cheap e-bay knockoff, so be it. It's understandable not everyone will be able to drop 2+K on a header, and that's totally cool. But don't sit here and insinuate that it's the same shit... cuz it ain't.
i don't want to sit here and argue with you because i see your point but you have some stuff wrong.

1. it is made out of the same stainless steel material as the fabspeed.
2. The welds werent bad at all. They looked strong, but they weren't smooth from the outside.
3. That is not really a problem once they get bolted down. you would know if the car is leaking because you would hear it, and that hasn't been a problem on the m coupe and all of the millions of e46 m3s.
4. yes it is bad for the other company but we still get s similar product, minuse the lack of less quality. and it is still going to be a huge improvement over the stock headers.
5. you probably can't see the inside of them, but still it is going to be an improvement over stock.
6. i don't know about this they could be jet coated i don't know.

know that is a little bit unnecessary, and that would be stereotyping.

yes i agree that it is cheap, but you honestly won't be able to tell the difference between the headers, they all will perform so closely. That loss of power that ylur saying of, well i have seen dyno testing done with numbers up to 20whp w/o software. your entitled to your own opinion but make sure you know the facts before you say something. know i may very well be wrong, but i sure don't think i am. so really the only problem with the headers is the flange issue and the small weld problem, and to you it is also the low price that shouldn't be associated with this car. both won't be a problem once bolted down. so if you can get passed those two things you can save quite a bit of money. like mmmazing said, if you knew just a little more about the subject, then you would have known if they cracked. Go to m3forum.net. i am telling you this, you will be amazed by how many m3 have these headers on their car.
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      02-25-2009, 06:46 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMMazing07 View Post
all good points. but i have yet to see someones ebay headers crack. Ive seen pics of ebay headers after 30K miles including track miles and they look pretty good. a friend of mine has had ebay headers for 20k and no problems.
+1
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      02-25-2009, 10:10 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkz4mc View Post
Dude... your point on cost is understood... however. I think you're missing the point on us wanting to buy a quality header. The only cons to a quality built / designed stainless steel SS or other quality brand header are cost.

The cons to ebay headers are....

1. Made out of shitty thin-wall steel = Causing them to crack a lot easier, & rust easily
2. Probably not welded very well = Causing them to crack due to poor weld penetration.
3. Unflush & uneven flanges = Doesn't seal properly causing loss of power.
4. Copied instead of designed = The person ripping it off probably doesn't realize ( or care ) that if they change anything tubing design wise... it causes a LOSS in power.
5. Look inside the merge collectors and see how smooth they are and if any toothpaste welds are in there as well. If they are... it's making a LOSS in power.
6. If they're Jet Coated, they'll crack easier, because the thin steel can't handle the extra heat, just like if you were to wrap them with header tape.
As you probably know I'm on the same page of thinking ebay headers are super not awesome at all. But I would like to correct this and put the right info out there.

The thin walls are more of a sound issue then cracking issue, and they aren't going to rust.

The welds are OK, the M3 ebay headers are actually usually pretty good TIG welds, but a lot of the time the quality control is not there and the welds will interfere with the nuts on the flanges and something has to be ground down.

Unflush flanges yes, but you bolt them down and they will seal, but to do so you have to put strain on the head studs. It's not a power hurting issue. However it does cause them to blow out gaskets and leak easier (especially with the crappy gaskets 99% of them come with) at which point you have to take them completely off to fix (and have a really annoying exhasut leak in the meantime)

The copying part yes, they do still make power, but are definitely no longer as optimal.

+1 on the merge collectors not being great.



Jet hot coating doesn't risk cracking headers like thermal wrap does. Jet hot coating reflects heat from the inside as well vs thermal wrap which rejects it once it's moved across the walls which increases the temperature of the headers themselves.




The ebay headers do make power with tunes, but they are definitely not high quality. It's just a matter of what you're OK with.
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      02-25-2009, 10:22 AM   #11
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Guys,

I wouldn't have posted the things I did unless I had someone that's actually a qualified engineer that knows A LOT about this subject teach me all about it, and listed the reasons why exactly that I shouldn't get them for my car ( hey, I like a deal as much as the next guy ).

He's built a custom header for his race car using Burns Stainless collectors, when he took his header to them to check out, they about shit their pants saying that it was one of the most beautiful headers they have ever seen. Even nicer than headers that a lot of professional race teams build ( Check it out attached, pre-completed, note the one piece CNC'd stainless header flange ). He's pretty OCD as you can tell by the pix... and I can assure you that he knows a lot more than anyone on this forum when it comes to motor stuff.

Be that what it is... If no one has had problems with them on their cars... great, but I'm still not getting one hahahahaha
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      02-25-2009, 12:55 PM   #12
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Looks like another mid-price higher quality option is Agency Power for 800.00. This header uses more expensive/stronger/heat resistent 321 Stainless vs. 304.
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      02-25-2009, 01:05 PM   #13
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Looks like they are $1000 on AP website....

I am still trying to decide on 4.10 LSD vs Headers for my next modification...

What say ye?
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      02-25-2009, 01:17 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4MCJJ View Post
Looks like they are $1000 on AP website....

I am still trying to decide on 4.10 LSD vs Headers for my next modification...

What say ye?
I think a diff will be my next upgrade...

Then I wanna do the ESS Tune / Header / Secondary cat delete at the same time.

After that ... divorce will probably be the next mod. hahaha
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      02-25-2009, 01:20 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkz4mc View Post
I think a diff will be my next upgrade...

Then I wanna do the ESS Tune / Header / Secondary cat delete at the same time.

After that ... divorce will probably be the next mod. hahaha
Yeah...seriously

I just got the ESS Tune and CDV removed....with very nice results.

Now LSD vs. headers is on deck.
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      02-25-2009, 01:43 PM   #16
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LSD - no question. Every day I drive my car I am glad I did my LSD. I just wish I did it first.

Also, regarding AP header...here is a link for 899.00. I have seen them cheaper though.
http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/a...5-p-44012.html
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      02-25-2009, 02:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkz4mc View Post
Guys,

I wouldn't have posted the things I did unless I had someone that's actually a qualified engineer that knows A LOT about this subject teach me all about it, and listed the reasons why exactly that I shouldn't get them for my car ( hey, I like a deal as much as the next guy ).

He's built a custom header for his race car using Burns Stainless collectors, when he took his header to them to check out, they about shit their pants saying that it was one of the most beautiful headers they have ever seen. Even nicer than headers that a lot of professional race teams build ( Check it out attached, pre-completed, note the one piece CNC'd stainless header flange ). He's pretty OCD as you can tell by the pix... and I can assure you that he knows a lot more than anyone on this forum when it comes to motor stuff.

Be that what it is... If no one has had problems with them on their cars... great, but I'm still not getting one hahahahaha
you may know what your talking about but you did Not know any facts about the ebay headers. you had a few but thats it.
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      02-25-2009, 03:29 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpower03 View Post
you may know what your talking about but you did Not know any facts about the ebay headers. you had a few but thats it.
Maybe so... time will tell I guess. True though, I could have researched the ebay headers a little more, but one thing I really don't believe is that they're 304 stainless for that price. Quality stainless is expensive. There's plenty of different grades of stainless steel, just because they say it's stainless ( if they in fact do ), it doesn't mean it's 304. Ikea makes stainless cutlery that rusts right

A lot of the people that have the ebay headers probably wouldn't even know if they're cracked or not because they don't even work on their own cars. Let alone know how poorly they really fit on the car, and what had to be done to make them fit if they had a shop install them. Cuz you and I both know that a small shop isn't gonna tell you the true dirty details of how the install went if it wasn't too easy, or if they had to use a hammer & torch to bend your new header to fit.

One more thing, the statement, "once they're bolted down it isn't a problem", is a problem. If the tubing is being stressed from tension, from being "bolted down into place", then is heated up, cooled down, over and over, what do you think will ultimately happen ? The steel will stretch, which can result in cracking of the tubing or flanges.

Anywho... I think I've made my point. It's all about the quality build and fit for me. I like buying something once, and not having to replace it. Sorry if I offended any e-bay header owners, I was just listing the reasons why I wouldn't get them personally.
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      02-25-2009, 04:50 PM   #19
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here is one that i found real quick..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-E...Q5fAccessories
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      02-25-2009, 05:13 PM   #20
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Good god that's cheap ! MUST... RESIST...... BARGAIN..... AAAGAGGGGHHHHH !!!!

hahahahahaha
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      02-25-2009, 05:17 PM   #21
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see i couldn't resist.
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      02-25-2009, 05:55 PM   #22
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Hahahahaha perfect... the only feedback on a S54 header he sold... Page 2 on the feedback.

Unfortunately the flange stud is not compatable with my engine
duringen ( 5 )
Jan-20-09 19:57
BMW E46 M3 01 06 3.2L Stainless Steel Header S54B32 (#290276677006)
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