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      02-04-2009, 03:57 PM   #1
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Race Seats and Airbags

Will replacing the driver seat with full race seat (sparco bucket seat for example) disable the entire airbag system or do you only loose the airbag that was built into the seat you took out.

If the airbag light is on doesn't that mean that the airbags won't deploy in case of an accident? Seems like a pretty strong reason to stay away from racing seats unless I plan to swap for every track event...even then what if you god-forbid get into an accident on the way there or back?

Basically, do I loose one or all airbags? Thanks for your input.
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      02-04-2009, 06:49 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squeak View Post
I would like to know too, but i would want the BMW performance seats

I'd imagine the performance seats don't hold you in as well as true racing seats.
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      02-04-2009, 08:57 PM   #3
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when the airbag light is on, it'll deploy all the air bags as a fail safe.
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      02-18-2009, 03:24 PM   #4
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is there an occupancy censor that will work with the 135? i know for the e46 m3, people were using the occupancy censor from the OEM CSL recaro "pole positions" in their race seats to turn the airbag light off (then the car knows where you're sitting, and should activate the appropriate airbags only). by removing an airbag from the system, however, this may be a moot point.
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      07-12-2012, 10:40 PM   #5
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I'd like to revive this thread. Do we have more information on this?

Basically I'm trying to find out which airbags disable when replacing the seats.
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Last edited by octironSmith; 07-13-2012 at 10:05 AM..
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      07-15-2012, 07:32 AM   #6
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Anybody? I know that there are people on this forum that have done this.
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      07-17-2012, 03:48 PM   #7
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      07-17-2012, 04:59 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octironSmith View Post
Anybody? I know that there are people on this forum that have done this.
I have my eyes on set of recall seats and still could not find out the answer, it suck when you don't know it and don't really want to be the first to find out esppecially playing with the air bags. I giving up idea of swapping to race seat now. It does look good but I can tell myself give up the air bags option
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      07-17-2012, 06:28 PM   #9
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i think all other airbags will still function. if you're able to turn off the airbag light with the addition of occupancy sensors, only the appropriate (remaining) airbags will fire. if the airbag light is not dealt with (illuminated), all airbags will fire in any incident that would have fired any combination of the airbags otherwise.
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      07-18-2012, 09:33 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fourtailpipes View Post
i think all other airbags will still function. if you're able to turn off the airbag light with the addition of occupancy sensors, only the appropriate (remaining) airbags will fire. if the airbag light is not dealt with (illuminated), all airbags will fire in any incident that would have fired any combination of the airbags otherwise.
I see. So, from a safety perspective, the only airbags we lose are the ones built into the seats? Also, what is the advantage of selective airbag deployment over deploying all of them?

Also, I wonder if it's possible to purchase occupancy sensors from the dealership to install on aftermarket race seats. Thoughts?
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      07-18-2012, 10:28 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octironSmith View Post
I see. So, from a safety perspective, the only airbags we lose are the ones built into the seats? Also, what is the advantage of selective airbag deployment over deploying all of them?

Also, I wonder if it's possible to purchase occupancy sensors from the dealership to install on aftermarket race seats. Thoughts?
the only airbags you should lose are the airbags in the seats, but those are the primary side airbags. if you delete those all you have is a curtain on the sides, which isnt much. the downside of leaving the light on and potentially having all airbags fire in a crash is that airbags are very expensive to replace. this could significantly increase the repair cost of a minor to moderate accident.

to me that's all moot anyway; not having a primary side airbag is enough to make me throw away the idea entirely. especially if we're talking about this in the context of hpde etc., where i want all the safety and crash protection i can get. bmw (and other) engineers have done an amazing job of increasing the survivability of terrible accidents. i'm not about to mess with that. if i could install my sparco evos without deleting an airbag, i would have, but to me the only other acceptable solution comes when you've replaced the side protection of the airbag with that of a full cage.

in my e46 m3 with sparco evos i used the occupancy sensors made for the CSL, since it came with a version of the recaro pole position shell. i don't know if those would work with the e82 though.
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      07-18-2012, 12:38 PM   #12
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Thanks for that detailed post. It really helps put things in perspective.

I must say, though, I drove the TCKline 135i with race seats at Oktoberfest a couple of years ago and it was a night and day difference from the stock seats.

What about using a harness with the stock seats? Any opinions on that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fourtailpipes View Post
the only airbags you should lose are the airbags in the seats, but those are the primary side airbags. if you delete those all you have is a curtain on the sides, which isnt much. the downside of leaving the light on and potentially having all airbags fire in a crash is that airbags are very expensive to replace. this could significantly increase the repair cost of a minor to moderate accident.

to me that's all moot anyway; not having a primary side airbag is enough to make me throw away the idea entirely. especially if we're talking about this in the context of hpde etc., where i want all the safety and crash protection i can get. bmw (and other) engineers have done an amazing job of increasing the survivability of terrible accidents. i'm not about to mess with that. if i could install my sparco evos without deleting an airbag, i would have, but to me the only other acceptable solution comes when you've replaced the side protection of the airbag with that of a full cage.

in my e46 m3 with sparco evos i used the occupancy sensors made for the CSL, since it came with a version of the recaro pole position shell. i don't know if those would work with the e82 though.
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      07-18-2012, 01:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octironSmith View Post
Thanks for that detailed post. It really helps put things in perspective.

I must say, though, I drove the TCKline 135i with race seats at Oktoberfest a couple of years ago and it was a night and day difference from the stock seats.

What about using a harness with the stock seats? Any opinions on that?
i especially wanted a racing seat because i'm in serious need of head room when i have my helmet on (damn BMWNA ruling out sunroof deletes!)

there are 4-point harnesses designed to be added to stock or aftermarket seats; the schroth rallye 4 comes to mind. it's important to note, however, that schroth does not approve rallye 4 belts in the e82 chassis. i was told this is due to the steeper angle of the tailstrap (the belt leading from the rear seat over your shoulders). this steeper angle could translate to increased spinal compression in a frontal impact. i've also heard others saying they've been told by schroth that the e82 chassis' mounting points in the rear lap belt connection may also not be approved for load-bearing on this particular angle. this could possibly be remedied by installing a rallye 3 system to the c-pillar rear shoulder belt position, which would fix the angular issue. the rallye 3 makes me a little nervous, with the driver's entire weight being linearly applied to a single strap, though. (to be fair, schroth is more than reputable, and i doubt they'd put out a belt if it couldn't absorb and restrain a reasonable load).
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      07-18-2012, 01:58 PM   #14
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What about using the BRacing bolt in cage with stock seats and Rallye 4 harness (if thats possible)?

Does the seatbelt play a role into how the airbags are deployed?

Sorry for bringing up all these questions!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fourtailpipes View Post
i especially wanted a racing seat because i'm in serious need of head room when i have my helmet on (damn BMWNA ruling out sunroof deletes!)

there are 4-point harnesses designed to be added to stock or aftermarket seats; the schroth rallye 4 comes to mind. it's important to note, however, that schroth does not approve rallye 4 belts in the e82 chassis. i was told this is due to the steeper angle of the tailstrap (the belt leading from the rear seat over your shoulders). this steeper angle could translate to increased spinal compression in a frontal impact. i've also heard others saying they've been told by schroth that the e82 chassis' mounting points in the rear lap belt connection may also not be approved for load-bearing on this particular angle. this could possibly be remedied by installing a rallye 3 system to the c-pillar rear shoulder belt position, which would fix the angular issue. the rallye 3 makes me a little nervous, with the driver's entire weight being linearly applied to a single strap, though. (to be fair, schroth is more than reputable, and i doubt they'd put out a belt if it couldn't absorb and restrain a reasonable load).
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      07-18-2012, 02:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octironSmith View Post
What about using the BRacing bolt in cage with stock seats and Rallye 4 harness (if thats possible)?
Rallye-4 is not designed for a harness bar. Use this one instead.

http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/store/s...m/profi-ii-asm
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      07-19-2012, 09:21 AM   #16
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I contacted Schroth last year about their Rallye 4 harnesses after a recommendation from a HPDE instructor. Schroth's approved car list hasnt been updated in years, but the guys there assured me the Rallye 4 was ok to use in the 1s. Btw they make a HUGE difference. No sliding around, no arm fatigue, and best yet, you have much improved feel which helps immensely with car control.

On a related note, I'm also currently interested in installing race seats, as my instructor said I should be running Hans at the times/speeds I'm carrying. Anyone have/know of a bolt in roll bar so I can run Hans with a racing seat and 5pt belts? BR Racing has a harness bar for our car, but they explicitly point out they don't guarantee anything safety wise and it worries me that it doesn't explicitly advertise as a roll bar. Im thinking i might have to have a shop custom make one...Anyone have a bolt in cage/roll bar in their 1?
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      07-19-2012, 11:53 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octironSmith View Post
What about using the BRacing bolt in cage with stock seats and Rallye 4 harness (if thats possible)?

Does the seatbelt play a role into how the airbags are deployed?

Sorry for bringing up all these questions!
if you wanted to use the BR Racing bar, a typical racing harness would be the thing to get... something like a schroth profi. this would be a good setup, except for the seat. you can only use a 4-point harness with the stock seat, and with this setup you'd want a 6-point harness. the br bar probably adds some protection to the b-pillar area, but if you go to a racing seat to accomodate the 6-point belt, again you lose the door protection from the airbag.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarianstig View Post
I contacted Schroth last year about their Rallye 4 harnesses after a recommendation from a HPDE instructor. Schroth's approved car list hasnt been updated in years, but the guys there assured me the Rallye 4 was ok to use in the 1s. Btw they make a HUGE difference. No sliding around, no arm fatigue, and best yet, you have much improved feel which helps immensely with car control.

On a related note, I'm also currently interested in installing race seats, as my instructor said I should be running Hans at the times/speeds I'm carrying. Anyone have/know of a bolt in roll bar so I can run Hans with a racing seat and 5pt belts? BR Racing has a harness bar for our car, but they explicitly point out they don't guarantee anything safety wise and it worries me that it doesn't explicitly advertise as a roll bar. Im thinking i might have to have a shop custom make one...Anyone have a bolt in cage/roll bar in their 1?
thats very interesting that they told you that... i have used the rallye belts in other cars, and loved them, but when i asked schroth, they were very clear that they don't condone the rallye 4 belts in the 1er. i've also heard others on the forum say they've gotten the same answer relating to the steeper angle of the tailstraps caused by the e82's compact cabin.

regarding the br racing bar, i think they're just covering their asses saying that it's not guaranteed to perform in a rollover. they may not have tested it, but that's one of the best looking bolt-in rollbar designs i've seen. lots of surface area on the floor, and connections to sturdy points in the trunk... you're unlikely to do much better without having a custom bar boxed and welded into the car.
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      07-19-2012, 03:19 PM   #18
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Just wanted to point out that this has turned out to be a very informative thread.
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      07-20-2012, 12:22 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarianstig View Post
... BR Racing has a harness bar for our car, but they explicitly point out they don't guarantee anything safety wise and it worries me that it doesn't explicitly advertise as a roll bar. Im thinking i might have to have a shop custom make one...Anyone have a bolt in cage/roll bar in their 1?
I'm not sure a professional cage builder would even guarantee anything safety wise. Too many unknowns. The best you would get is some sort of compliance with safety standards. As far as I know, there arn't any official safety standards for roll-bars. I could be wrong though.
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      08-22-2012, 01:00 AM   #20
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Finally got everything installed, just in time for VIR this weekend. High density foam arrives tomorrow for the bars.

Pics:
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      08-24-2012, 10:39 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Derple View Post
I think this is the opposite of safe. You've lost a substantial side impact safety device in your side airbags in exchange for a roll bar that only offers support at the B-pillar which typically is not the weak link in the rollover. Additionally I think side impacts are much more likely in DE than a rollover. Just admit you did this so you could put in 5 point belts and cool-race factor. And its red!
Hmmm, ACTUALLY the only reason I put this in was because more than one of my instructors has said I really needed to get serious about installing more safety equipment (specifically HANS) because of the speeds I'm carrying. You can't run HANS without Harnesses and race seats, and you cant run those without roll bar protection...unless you are ok with possibly being decapitated in a rollover.

The most common injuries on the track are neck/head related. You ask Dale Earnhardt, Roland Ratzenberger, and Ayrton Senna if they minded not having side airbags. I'm pretty sure they'd rather have HANS instead...

Don't imply that choosing whether to have side impact airbags is a life/death choice. Drivers have survived crashes LONG before side impact airbags were ever implemented in road cars. The truth is, it's the seatbelt that will save your life.
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      08-26-2012, 06:22 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarianstig
Finally got everything installed, just in time for VIR this weekend. High density foam arrives tomorrow for the bars.

Pics:
Awesome! Thanks for posting the pics. What did you do about the airbag warning lights and the seatbelt warning?
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