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      04-30-2008, 03:48 AM   #1
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Thumbs up Shark Injector---is coming

For you Jim Conforti fans, Jim C. alluded to the introduction of the Shark Injector at Bimmerfest and also confirmed that there is a specific "manipulation" code stored when piggies are used.

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      04-30-2008, 10:05 AM   #2
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Awesome. Had it on my previous E46 M3's and it was a perfect little tune.
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      04-30-2008, 12:08 PM   #3
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Not familiar... what is the "Shark Injector?" Just another piggyback?
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      04-30-2008, 01:28 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5soko View Post
plugs into the OBD port and gives the car a map. but the beauty of it, this thing also records the stock map so when u go to dealer visits you just plug in and load the stock map. He has been tunning bmw for many many years and know alot about our ECU's. he should be releasing more info this sunday or weekend.
Am I missing something here??

I admit I don't know much about the Shark Injector or re-programming via the OBD port, but surely BMW will be able to detect the re-flashing, which in turn will void any warranty.

I may be wrong here, but I think the TMAP upgrades are the only tuning modules that don't change any ECU programming parameters, but just tell the ECU that max boost and fuel rates have not been reached yet.

Can Any one enlighten me on the subject?
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      04-30-2008, 03:01 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mad chemist View Post
I admit I don't know much about the Shark Injector or re-programming via the OBD port, but surely BMW will be able to detect the re-flashing, which in turn will void any warranty.
Not necessarily true - anything the DME records, can be erased - in principle. So if the reflash is smart enough to know about this, it should be able to take care of it.

Quote:
I may be wrong here, but I think the TMAP upgrades are the only tuning modules that don't change any ECU programming parameters, but just tell the ECU that max boost and fuel rates have not been reached yet.
As far as I understand, the new BMW piggyback detection system relies on implausible correlations between gas pedal angle, turbo boost and other parameters. If this is true, then it should be able to detect any external system that causes the boost to be raised, including the Turbo Tuner and JBS1.

Then again, we don't really know how the BMW detection system works. You can be sure that tuners will find a way to go around it - or go out of this business.
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      04-30-2008, 04:09 PM   #6
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Check out N54 Tech. Terry has figured out how it works.
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      04-30-2008, 07:55 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanB85 View Post
Not familiar... what is the "Shark Injector?" Just another piggyback?

ECU reflash just like a Dinan, but uses the OBD-II port and is user installed/removed.

Conforti is a legendary tuner for many makes. The man is extremely knowleddgable and is considered one of the premier engine tuners, (ala, Corky Bell). His products are not illegal and do not void warranties. He is basically Spok for engines.
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      05-01-2008, 12:47 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red135 View Post
Check out N54 Tech. Terry has figured out how it works.
Got it, thanks! If that is indeed what is going on, I think it will be virtually impossible to get high HP numbers out of the new ECU's. Perhaps 40-50RWHP with matching torque.
Edit: Not that I would want more on my own car, that's about right for me personally, but for others...

What do you think?
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      05-01-2008, 01:45 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
What do you think?
More is always better....
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      05-01-2008, 01:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB135i View Post
More is always better....

I'm not going to say more is always better, but HP certainly is a DRUG.

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      05-01-2008, 02:15 PM   #11
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Good point ADC regards the total re-flash situation.

However, with the TMAP, if the ECU only ever sees up to 8.8 psi and a corrected temperature signal (always corrected by the TMAP unit) then even a correlation with throttle position probably won't show up anything come service time - provided, of course, the TMAP plug-in is removed a day or two before hand. Whether any related sensor parameters could be used to detect such a tune is a bit worrying.

But I guess we will only really know when the tuners crack the new ECU in the very near future.

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      05-01-2008, 08:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Got it, thanks! If that is indeed what is going on, I think it will be virtually impossible to get high HP numbers out of the new ECU's. Perhaps 40-50RWHP with matching torque.
Edit: Not that I would want more on my own car, that's about right for me personally, but for others...

What do you think?
Where there's a will, there's a way. I'm not concerned. Lots of cars/ECUs have been called "untunable" before.
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      05-03-2008, 06:19 PM   #13
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More info: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139026

'not yet' for msd81 (that's us). 12-13psi. No info on power, but gains called 'ridiculous' from someone who talked to Jim. Included is a tool for building your own map.

Also, from Dinan: They blew up cars, and turbos. Maximum the driveline can take is 450tq (wheel). More than 14PSI does nothing but run the turbos out of their efficiency range, resulting in power loss without big time breathing mods. Based on their explosion results, they believe they will be pusing the limits of the stock turbos at 14psi with their Stage 3 tune.

I wouldn't expect more from Dinan without a turbo upgrade, and possibly a compression reduction.
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      05-03-2008, 08:51 PM   #14
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Awesome I wonder how that is compared to the Split Scond model?
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      05-03-2008, 09:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F0Bman View Post
Awesome I wonder how that is compared to the Split Scond model?
It sounds like it's more like Dinan, with full end user tunability, the ability to map it to a given level of modifications, invisability, and an SSTT price.
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      05-04-2008, 09:40 PM   #16
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Don't forget you can flash back to stock for dealer service.

My concern is BMW is well aware of the SSTT and I'm sure they have some way of detecting it. It may not throw a code, but it could still detect it.
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      05-04-2008, 11:49 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
Don't forget you can flash back to stock for dealer service.

My concern is BMW is well away of the SSTT and I'm sure they have some way of detecting it. It may not throw a code, but it could still detect it.
Well according to the BMW dealers who are selling the SSTT they have not been able to detect it at all even when its on a car let alone when removed.

As far as an OBDII solution, that will be very interesting considering the encryption process used on the new v81 DME and the counter that detects and records every time the DME is programmed. After 10 programs the DME is done.


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      05-05-2008, 07:48 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@Eurobahn.us View Post
Well according to the BMW dealers who are selling the SSTT they have not been able to detect it at all even when its on a car let alone when removed.

As far as an OBDII solution, that will be very interesting considering the encryption process used on the new v81 DME and the counter that detects and records every time the DME is programmed. After 10 programs the DME is done.


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Now.. now !!


Lets not start talking funny! The counter is not flagging those re-flashes, per Jim himself. I would think you'd just leave it up to him to explain all technicalities with his products, which he will do when they come out.

He doesn't hype his products, so you won't see a big long thread about come look at me... He doesn't have to.
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      05-05-2008, 01:32 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@Eurobahn.us View Post
Well according to the BMW dealers who are selling the SSTT they have not been able to detect it at all even when its on a car let alone when removed.

As far as an OBDII solution, that will be very interesting considering the encryption process used on the new v81 DME and the counter that detects and records every time the DME is programmed. After 10 programs the DME is done.


Jeff
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I don't think you read when Jim slapped you around on e90post. :-p 14 times, that "counter" also does not apply because of the method used for reprogramming. Also v81 isn't all that different in terms of encryption. Also, the shark injector method doesn't need to break the encryption quite tv same way dinan does. The dme does not consider it a "flash" like dinan, so the security that needs to get broken is a bit different. The purpose is that it works around the unbreakable encryption. Both 80&81 use 1024 bit, almost impossible to muscle through.
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      05-05-2008, 01:34 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@Eurobahn.us View Post
Well according to the BMW dealers who are selling the SSTT they have not been able to detect it at all even when its on a car let alone when removed.

As far as an OBDII solution, that will be very interesting considering the encryption process used on the new v81 DME and the counter that detects and records every time the DME is programmed. After 10 programs the DME is done.


Jeff
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Also, I didnt know that you had FASTA read outs. You should scan and post on all the forums, would be good information to have.
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      05-06-2008, 03:00 AM   #21
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I wasn't talking about the way the ECU detects piggybacks, sorry if I gave that impression. I was talking about some misinformation in regards to how the style of ECU reflash used by Conforti works. Honestly, he's the ONLY guy outside of BMW's engineering department to have complete access to the ECU, so he's kinda the authority on these matters.

I have nothing against anyone, or any of there tunes. I was a little tongue in cheek with Jeff, but I didn't mean any offense. I was correcting some misinformation, and pointing out that he probably knew better, as he had already been corrected on the matter.

As for what tuning option you want to use, that's your call! No one can tell you what to do, not even BMW! :thumbup:

TBH, I wouldn't count on keeping your warranty no matter WHAT you use, given how things are going. IMO, totally rewriting the ECU, so that BMW has no idea what happened it probably the safest method, but only time will tell. Personally, the only reason I'd want to pull a tune is if it would make life easier for my dealer when it comes to a LEGIT warranty claim. BMW regional reps can get anal, and look for any reason to deny work.

His tune will work wiht 29.2, as it's just a programming update.

He's going to do for v81 after he cracks the E90 M3. It's different hardware, perhaps using slightly different BIOS, or a different way or granting the total access he's achieving. The beauty of this tune is that it ISN'T really a flash. It is a COMPLETE overwrite of the ECU, which is what makes it undectable. When you go back to stock, it COMPLETELY restores all of the data from when you tuned. As far the ECU, or anyone talking to it is concerned, nothing ever happened. I'm figuring 6-10 months form today. Perhaps less if BMW hasn't made significant hardware changes in terms of the way the ECU talks to whatever is plugged into the OBDII port. If it speaks the same "language", it shouldn't be a problem to get into with minor changes to the way the program already works.

It's like getting into a secure computer using the BIOS, copying the contents of the HD and BIOS settings, formatting and setting it up as your wish, then when you're done formatting again, and completely restoring it to it's original state.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5soko View Post
take it easy E82TT6,

here is some more info before you just go along what people write.

N54TECH.COM - View Single Post - Bad news for N54 owners...

FWIW Shiv has enocuntered the same thing. as Jeff has mentioned.

didnt JIM C. already say that his Shark isnt going to work with the 29.2 yet or the V81 yet?

im sticking with the Piggyback setup and such.
im not gonna go around flashing and mapping my DME esp when bmw is getting so strict with there DME's!!! i rather have something that can be removed and not leave too much of a tace then BMW find out i had my system flashed or MAPPED!!!! BMW isnt as easy to fool as some people might think, i actually asked my TECH about this and he wasnt too sure how this was gonna work out, he said i am better off not doing it.
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      05-06-2008, 04:36 AM   #22
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it freaks me out to think that being able to flash back to stock (for a legit warranty claim, of course) is dependent upon your stock tune being kept safe and not lost, or corrupted inadvertantly, etc.

the 80 hp talk is pure hearsay. in fact its hearsay within hearsay. my money is on it being 80 crank hp like Dinan claims.

the thing is I am open to the idea of the shark editor or injector, but we need more information, coherently presented with a down to earth attitude.

I know that if I had a v81, this would be the great massiah for me. but I may have other options. the only question is whether the latest progman does indeed limit torque on the v81. So far, i tend to believe Terry, that it doesn't limit torque, because he provides useful information, coherently presented with a down to earth attitude. However, I may be overly optimistic because if that's not true, I'm in the same boat as the v81 gang (except for the "warranty gone" code).

anyway, i just think we need more info. we're spinning our own wheels, trying to piece stuff together from these little riddles about 'project sharkhatton'. If anything, the shark editor is good for our community. It will give more options and reduce prices on the current tunes. But so far, with all this partial information and misinformation, its just creating a lot of argument.
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