BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-26-2008, 11:24 AM   #1
Squidbilly
Private
Squidbilly's Avatar
United_States
3
Rep
75
Posts

Drives: 2008 135i
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: N. Cal

iTrader: (0)

Underrated at 300hp/300ft-lbs?

MWERKS dyno'd a stock 135i and got 280hp and 295ft-lbs AT THE REAR WHEELS.




I've heard approximately 20% of the power from the engine to the rear wheels is lost to the drivetrain. Based on MWERKS numbers and 20% loss, the 135i puts out 350hp and 369 ft-lbs at the flywheel.

350/369 is a stretch; but I wouldn't be suprised if 300/300 is underrated considering the car does 0-60 in 4.8 and the 1/4 mi in 13.3.
Appreciate 0
      04-26-2008, 12:04 PM   #2
Bizall
Captain
Bizall's Avatar
United_States
123
Rep
905
Posts

Drives: 2019 Honda Accord Touring 2.0
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Northern Virginia

iTrader: (0)

I can't see the video here from work, but what type of dyno is it? They all measure differently, some high, some lower. Plus, whoever is operating it can change settings to get higher or lower numbers. Not necessarily saying that is what happened, just stating it is a possiblity. For me, it's all about the change from stock. I will use the same place to dyno, and make sure no other settings are changed. Just try to keep the variables to a minimum.
__________________
2018 BMW M3 - 12.1 @ 121mph
2014 BMW 335i M-Sport (Sold) 12.4 @ 113mph
2008 BMW 135i (Sold) 12.8 @ 106mph
Appreciate 0
      04-26-2008, 12:05 PM   #3
mikeo
Santa Fe Concorso
mikeo's Avatar
United_States
103
Rep
2,984
Posts

Drives: '11 M-sport 328i, '13 X1 28i
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Santa Fe, NM

iTrader: (3)

That seems optimistic in my expierence, probably more like 15-17% drivetrain loss in the 1-Series. And the same car's output can vary widely on different dynos and different days.
__________________
Santa Fe Concorso - The Southwest's Premier Automotive Gathering.
Appreciate 0
      04-26-2008, 12:07 PM   #4
Crowley
Major
54
Rep
1,015
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Oct 2007

iTrader: (0)

My guess is that we are seeing around 12% loss with the manual tranny ..

Crowley
__________________


The last words on the powerplant should go to a clearly overwhelmed Hormazd Sorabjee, editor and publisher of Autocar India: “There is something simply magical about BMW’s in-line six. It has a creamy smoothness that makes velvet feel like sandpaper.”
Appreciate 0
      04-26-2008, 12:10 PM   #5
eunosracr
Colonel
157
Rep
2,231
Posts

Drives: a car
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: here

iTrader: (4)

12% with manual around 15% with auto. 20% is way too high.
Appreciate 0
      04-26-2008, 12:15 PM   #6
08AWM3
Machi
08AWM3's Avatar
United_States
25
Rep
150
Posts

Drives: 2008 BMW Alpine White E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ///M=Machi

iTrader: (0)

20% loss most likely won't happen. Between 12-15% is about right. So the HP rating should be around 320bhp.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      04-26-2008, 01:07 PM   #7
blacknbean
Major
14
Rep
1,044
Posts

Drives: e92 335i 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: LA

iTrader: (2)

dinan got a peak 332 hp at the crank when they did their testing..so despite whatever drivetrain loss % you use this car is definately underated :thumbup:

Appreciate 0
      04-26-2008, 01:30 PM   #8
jeremyc74
Banned
United_States
76
Rep
5,970
Posts

Drives: '08 135i Montego/Terra
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Evansville, IN

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknbean View Post
dinan got a peak 332 hp at the crank when they did their testing..so despite whatever drivetrain loss % you use this car is definately underated :thumbup:

The only way they could know actual crank HP is by pulling the engine out of car and putting it on an engine dyno. It's entirely possible that they did that, but I can't seem to find anything that confirms it. I suspect they're using a standard drivetrain loss and a chassis dyno like everyone else, considering that they're giving the numbers at the crank and at the wheels. It seems like they just used a loss calculation.
Appreciate 0
      04-26-2008, 03:23 PM   #9
Squidbilly
Private
Squidbilly's Avatar
United_States
3
Rep
75
Posts

Drives: 2008 135i
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: N. Cal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bizall View Post
I can't see the video here from work, but what type of dyno is it? They all measure differently, some high, some lower. Plus, whoever is operating it can change settings to get higher or lower numbers. Not necessarily saying that is what happened, just stating it is a possiblity. For me, it's all about the change from stock. I will use the same place to dyno, and make sure no other settings are changed. Just try to keep the variables to a minimum.
They're using a DynoPack hub dyno.

There also may be a difference between the new HP rating system and the numbers most equipment put out.

It's not necessarily peak HP and torque that makes a car fast; the power curve is critical. The 135i has a nice FAT power curve....no waiting for the turbos to spool up or for it to wind up into the power curve (i.e. V-Tec).
Appreciate 0
      04-26-2008, 04:37 PM   #10
E82tt6
Colonel
E82tt6's Avatar
103
Rep
2,626
Posts

Drives: '08 Black Saphire Z4 MC
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (0)

its about the same as the s54 in the e46 m3 in terms of peak output on most dyno, maybe a bit more powerful
__________________
'08 Black Saphire/Black Z4 M Coupe
RIP Gretta: Blue Water/Lemon 135i. Died to save me.
-ChuckV
Appreciate 0
      04-27-2008, 06:49 AM   #11
Numb3rs
Banned
13
Rep
610
Posts

Drives: Looking
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Terra Ferma

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidbilly View Post
MWERKS dyno'd a stock 135i and got 280hp and 295ft-lbs AT THE REAR WHEELS.


I've heard approximately 20% of the power from the engine to the rear wheels is lost to the drivetrain. Based on MWERKS numbers and 20% loss, the 135i puts out 350hp and 369 ft-lbs at the flywheel.

350/369 is a stretch; but I wouldn't be suprised if 300/300 is underrated considering the car does 0-60 in 4.8 and the 1/4 mi in 13.3.

This is not really news, for it has been known for several years that the N54 produces about 320hp. Secondly, it has also been known that the tranny loss is not static but variable based on RPM and does not exceed 13.5%

Again, Dinan has done extensive bench testing & research on this engine and all the data can be seen on their web-site. There is/was no need for speculation.
Appreciate 0
      04-27-2008, 04:16 PM   #12
blklacker
Captain
blklacker's Avatar
50
Rep
657
Posts

Drives: 135i
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: seattle

iTrader: (0)

Turn off TC

They need to turn off the traction Control, When we were playing with mine on the dyno turning the TC Off, gave me wonderful results. Thinking about the chip upgrade thou any suggestions
__________________

-135i BSM, CRBL ,custom front lip/Indianapolis red fade, blacked out tail lights/corner headlights, golf tee, BMS Air intake, SSTT, CF spoiler,Powdered coated OEM rims gunmetal high gloss,custom Rear diffuser Black/Indianapolis red fade
Appreciate 0
      04-27-2008, 05:27 PM   #13
Jeff@Eurobahn.us
Captain
Jeff@Eurobahn.us's Avatar
United_States
24
Rep
752
Posts

Drives: European
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

BMW rates the loss at 15.5% Take a look at our dyno baseline and I am guessing that the car makes about 325 crank stock.

Jeff
Eurobahn
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      04-27-2008, 05:45 PM   #14
Crowley
Major
54
Rep
1,015
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Oct 2007

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknbean View Post
dinan got a peak 332 hp at the crank when they did their testing..so despite whatever drivetrain loss % you use this car is definately underated :thumbup:


Looks like they are using something under 12% loss then ... pretty efficient..

Crowley
__________________


The last words on the powerplant should go to a clearly overwhelmed Hormazd Sorabjee, editor and publisher of Autocar India: “There is something simply magical about BMW’s in-line six. It has a creamy smoothness that makes velvet feel like sandpaper.”
Appreciate 0
      04-27-2008, 05:46 PM   #15
Crowley
Major
54
Rep
1,015
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Oct 2007

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@Eurobahn.us View Post
BMW rates the loss at 15.5% Take a look at our dyno baseline and I am guessing that the car makes about 325 crank stock.

Jeff
Eurobahn

Is that the auto? I just can't see the car loosing any more than 12% (Manual) .. My 2004 cobra was around 12% .. I can't believe this car wouldn't be as efficient or more so with the rear ...

Crowley
__________________


The last words on the powerplant should go to a clearly overwhelmed Hormazd Sorabjee, editor and publisher of Autocar India: “There is something simply magical about BMW’s in-line six. It has a creamy smoothness that makes velvet feel like sandpaper.”
Appreciate 0
      04-27-2008, 07:55 PM   #16
crzy4135i
Major
crzy4135i's Avatar
United_States
81
Rep
1,075
Posts

Drives: 08 135i
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: US

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
Is that the auto? I just can't see the car loosing any more than 12% (Manual) .. My 2004 cobra was around 12% .. I can't believe this car wouldn't be as efficient or more so with the rear ...

Crowley
I agree.. can't be much more than 12% on these cars with a manual. AWD Audi's are assumed to have around 18% loss.
__________________
Ordered 4/7/08, Delivered 5/15/08, Sold, but not forgotten.
Appreciate 0
      04-28-2008, 12:46 PM   #17
E82tt6
Colonel
E82tt6's Avatar
103
Rep
2,626
Posts

Drives: '08 Black Saphire Z4 MC
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Crank HP is kinda worthless anyways. WHP is a more accurate measure.
__________________
'08 Black Saphire/Black Z4 M Coupe
RIP Gretta: Blue Water/Lemon 135i. Died to save me.
-ChuckV
Appreciate 0
      05-07-2008, 07:13 AM   #18
MZWIE
Lieutenant Colonel
386
Rep
1,660
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: GEORGIA

iTrader: (0)

Damn I hope it's more than that at the wheels. My 330ci w/SC was doing 294 at the wheels.
Appreciate 0
      05-07-2008, 10:54 AM   #19
crzy4135i
Major
crzy4135i's Avatar
United_States
81
Rep
1,075
Posts

Drives: 08 135i
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: US

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by e34m5 View Post
Damn I hope it's more than that at the wheels. My 330ci w/SC was doing 294 at the wheels.
The difference is your supercharger setup was most likely maxed out due to compression ratio, unless you used race gas or water injection. The 135i dyno is bone stock and has plenty of potential to go up from there with software.:biggrin:
__________________
Ordered 4/7/08, Delivered 5/15/08, Sold, but not forgotten.
Appreciate 0
      05-09-2008, 02:30 PM   #20
F0Bman
First Lieutenant
3
Rep
309
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Apr 2008

iTrader: (0)

Those are still impressive numbers nonetheless.
__________________
Fully Restored 1985 Corolla GT-S
1987 328ci SR20DET Drift Car
1989 Honda Civic Si-R Current Project
2002 Corolla CE Daily Driver

www.TheTunerSource.com
Appreciate 0
      05-09-2008, 03:33 PM   #21
JKennedy1612
New Member
0
Rep
9
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: May 2008

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeo View Post
That seems optimistic in my expierence, probably more like 15-17% drivetrain loss in the 1-Series. And the same car's output can vary widely on different dynos and different days.
With that said, it looks to be around 320bhp.
__________________
2003 Corvette Z06: Vara-crap Intake, B&B Exhaust, Kooks Catless 1-7/8" LTH w/ 3" X-Pipe, B&M Short Throw

2007 Cobalt SS S/C: GM Stage 2, GMPP Exhaust, GMPP Manifold, ZZP Catless DP, 2.9" Pulley,
Torque Dampener, 8000K HIDs, AEM Airbox Mod
Appreciate 0
      05-09-2008, 05:42 PM   #22
MZWIE
Lieutenant Colonel
386
Rep
1,660
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: GEORGIA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by crzy4135i View Post
The difference is your supercharger setup was most likely maxed out due to compression ratio, unless you used race gas or water injection. The 135i dyno is bone stock and has plenty of potential to go up from there with software.:biggrin:
Nope. I had the smallest ESS S/C in there. Only 6.5 PSI.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:39 PM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST