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      03-01-2008, 11:43 AM   #1
Bdh821
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Meth injection?

So has anyone thought about doing this? I haven't read about anyone doing this yet to the N54. Was wondering why?:iono:
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      03-01-2008, 11:46 AM   #2
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Yes people have thought and talked about doing just that. Search is your friend.
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      03-01-2008, 12:20 PM   #3
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Remember the N54 utilizes direct fuel injection so the intake track is dry - all the way through. Not sure how that will inhibit the use of methanol, but the flame front of the cylinder head is predicated on the spray pattern of the direct injector. If you start introducing another source of fuel into the intake track arriving in a manner that isn't accounted for (in a place it shouldn't be), all bets are off - it will cool the intake but who knows what impact it'd have on the fuel burn process. Suspect there'd be easier gains with an uprated intercooler to be honest. Just my $0.02.
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      03-01-2008, 04:07 PM   #4
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Is there an intake temp / detonation problem that needs fixing?
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      03-01-2008, 04:59 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clived View Post
Is there an intake temp / detonation problem that needs fixing?
That's the real question. I seriously doubt WI would be worth the effort on a car that is stock. It might be worth trying on a car running very agressive aftermarket software. I don't know about you guys but I would not want to void my warranty on a brand new car. If I want to mod a car I'll keep an older one that's already out of warranty.
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      03-06-2008, 11:12 PM   #6
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Helix will be making their own meth kit and a specific meth map for the attache:w00t:
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      03-06-2008, 11:32 PM   #7
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Meth also increases the effective octane of fuel, so it has benefits beyond just cooling charge temp. It lets you run more boost, more timing, and run things a bit further on the lean side.
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      03-07-2008, 10:28 AM   #8
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I'll just copy/paste what i put in the attache thread since their was a question about meth/water ....


Meth/water mix is a very cool thing. The water acts as a anti-knock since it can absorb crazy amounts of heat. Meth is super high octane.
The misconception about this is that your spraying a straight liquid into the intake stream. The nozzles do a really good job of atomizing the liquid. Its like putting a humidifier in your house. The car just sees a really dense air. Any one that has lived on the east coast in the summer knows exactly what i'm talking about. Meth/water can give benefits to someone thats even running race gas. Plus the water keeps the engine really clean due to a steam cleaning affect. I have seen pics of motors that have used it and they look brand new when taken apart.

Even on a daily driver. its a pretty inexpensive way to know your car will not be affected by any external temperature/humidity changes. The water/meth will even you out. $.99-$1.29 you can get 50/50 mix at most local walmarts...its washer fluid. Just get the pure mix with no additives.

And that is all without a specific map. If you tune for it on a FI motor you can pick up some nice horsepower and torque
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      03-07-2008, 04:22 PM   #9
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We have used aquamist kits on many of our subaru,evo, and e36 turbo builds. The benefits are significant, however in order to run it safely your vehicle will need to be custom tuned with the met/water mixture you choose for optimum performance and reliability.

The other issue is the strength of the 135/335 engine block after 400whp. In many cases there have been issues with running more than 400whp (blown motors etc.) So with the intention of running software, meth, and turning up the boost levels to increase power beyond 400whp it is questionable the actual reliability of the engine.
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      03-07-2008, 04:30 PM   #10
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Ryan - do you know of anyone injecting meth into an N54 engine? It's be interesting to hear how the go about that.
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      03-07-2008, 04:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atr_hugo View Post
Ryan - do you know of anyone injecting meth into an N54 engine? It's be interesting to hear how the go about that.
Haven't heard of anyone yet. People have been using race gas but the reliability is unknown. The install would be somewhat easy on the aquamist HFS-1 for anyone who is mechanically able.

I was thinking of trying it on mine but what happens when I go into the dealer? Despite my friendship and past employment with them...either it will be in for a service and they'll see the extra tank in the trunk, or I use the existing washer fluid tank and someone fills it with washer fluid. Never mind the reliability and "who will tune it?" issue.
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      03-07-2008, 04:40 PM   #12
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Any idea of how the meth kit and direct injection would interact?
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      03-07-2008, 04:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atr_hugo View Post
Any idea of how the meth kit and direct injection would interact?
Well the only "significant" relationship between the 2 are the impluses(ticks) of the injectors- determining when/how much meth is injected depending on which system you are going to use- system 1 or system 5

I'm not 100% sure if there would be another determining factor if using direct injection
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      03-13-2008, 05:02 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atr_hugo View Post
Any idea of how the meth kit and direct injection would interact?

Works great, at least on the 2.0TFSI from Audi/VW.

Meth injection is really useful only if you have tuning to take advantage of it.

In the VW/Audi world you can run a 100 octane race gas map on 91 pump gas if you have meth injection. That equates to big HP gains and even bigger torque gains. (All the major chip tuners have switching devices that make it easy to change tunes via your OBD2 port)
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      06-14-2008, 03:59 PM   #15
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for info pertaining to meth and the n54 engine, go on e90post and search meth, we need to get more info for meth on this forum ASAP!
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      06-14-2008, 04:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffc31337 View Post
Works great, at least on the 2.0TFSI from Audi/VW.

Meth injection is really useful only if you have tuning to take advantage of it.

In the VW/Audi world you can run a 100 octane race gas map on 91 pump gas if you have meth injection. That equates to big HP gains and even bigger torque gains. (All the major chip tuners have switching devices that make it easy to change tunes via your OBD2 port)
2nd... without a custom tune it will be pointless
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      06-15-2008, 02:20 AM   #17
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We (BSH) have been using methanol injection on our in house GTi 2.0T which has a direct injection engine for just about a year now. The combination has worked incredibly well for us and a before/after dyno session of my personal car while it was on the stock turbo revealed a 22 whp gain on the factory turbo. Now on an upgraded GT30 unit we have been able to push the car very hard even in the brutal heat of Arizona. (It was 110* today!)

Without making any changes to the tune already installed on the car, the VW ECM has had no problem trimming out extra fuel with methanol injection present. This has been verified by my on board wideband AFR gauge as well as by monitoring the AFR recorded by the ECM. Ultimately I would love a custom tune but unfortuneately that technology does not exist for the ME7 or the ME9 ECM's.

Should the BMW ECM have this same capability then out of the box this will make a great power adder. However, if the BMW ECM does not have this ability then the air fuel ratio will certainly be rich.

All said, methanol injection is an excellent way to increase performance on a forced induction vehicle and I am very happy to see it already being discussed for this platform. We are currently looking into purchasing a 135 and will definetly go that route should that become a reality.

As we research the car I will be around the boards a bit so if there are questions on methanol injection I am happy to answer as long as the question/answer conforms to the rules of the site.

-Phil
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      06-15-2008, 08:18 AM   #18
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Phil - thanks for the update - technical talk and such can go where need be in the forums - sales talk should go in commerical forum.

Thanks for the tech info - it's appreciated!!
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      06-15-2008, 09:50 AM   #19
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Glad to see someone from AZ. If you need a car for any fitaments, let me know.
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      06-19-2008, 11:33 PM   #20
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YES! That would be great to produce higher boost output.
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      12-30-2008, 11:56 AM   #21
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I want to do this but it sounds as if it would be time consuming to disassemble an injection kit before any warranty work?
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      12-30-2008, 06:30 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Impulse View Post
I'll just copy/paste what i put in the attache thread since their was a question about meth/water ....


Meth/water mix is a very cool thing. The water acts as a anti-knock since it can absorb crazy amounts of heat. Meth is super high octane.
The misconception about this is that your spraying a straight liquid into the intake stream. The nozzles do a really good job of atomizing the liquid. Its like putting a humidifier in your house. The car just sees a really dense air. Any one that has lived on the east coast in the summer knows exactly what i'm talking about. Meth/water can give benefits to someone thats even running race gas. Plus the water keeps the engine really clean due to a steam cleaning affect. I have seen pics of motors that have used it and they look brand new when taken apart.

Even on a daily driver. its a pretty inexpensive way to know your car will not be affected by any external temperature/humidity changes. The water/meth will even you out. $.99-$1.29 you can get 50/50 mix at most local walmarts...its washer fluid. Just get the pure mix with no additives.

And that is all without a specific map. If you tune for it on a FI motor you can pick up some nice horsepower and torque
did i not say exactly the same thing in my thread about the water/meth??? maybe i posted it else where...lol yes the above is exactly right...the nozzles atomize the liquid just fine...
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