How did 335i fair against M3 on a track?

[Redline]

I hear stories about 335i being actually faster than E46 M3 on a drag because of its Twin Turbo power over the revs.

What about around a track? was the suspension up to par on the 335i? Did it have an LSD?

I asks these questions because as good as I imagine the 135i to be....I have a feeling the suspension is a bit weak.

[TunedM2C]

E46 M3 should beat a 335i in a track race.

[Dave]

stock for stock its 4 sec slower... mainly thru turns on the ring
http://bmwblog.net/?p=210

[bum944]

Originally Posted by Redline

I hear stories about 335i being actually faster than E46 M3 on a drag because of its Twin Turbo power over the revs.

What about around a track? was the suspension up to par on the 335i? Did it have an LSD?

I asks these questions because as good as I imagine the 135i to be....I have a feeling the suspension is a bit weak.

R&T recently recorded 4.1 sec to 60 with the M3 coupe. Maybe around town the 335i torque feels more useful, but on a track it's no contest.

[mateo]

Originally Posted by izzodesh

stock for stock its 4 sec slower... mainly thru turns on the ring
http://bmwblog.net/?p=210

Ahhh...Real numbers. Thanks for the link!

:roundel:

[Dave]

np

[aumoore]

Originally Posted by bum944

R&T recently recorded 4.1 sec to 60 with the M3 coupe. Maybe around town the 335i torque feels more useful, but on a track it's no contest.

Look at those numbers again. 4 seconds on a 17 mile track is not that much and on the shorter course the 335 was .2 seconds slower. The 335 pulled more G's, had faster slalom course speed, faster evasive course. On the street the 335 is probably a faster car because to get the M3 to perform you must be willing to run it at 99% of its capabilities while the 335 is less high strung so most drivers will be willing to run it at 90% vs 99% for the M3.

Not knocking the M3 as it is a sweet ride but comparing the two is kind of like comparing a Dodge turbo diesel to the same truck with a Hemi. The Turbo Diesel will run with the Hemi and not have to be twisted as hard.

I wish I had the 335 motor in my wife's Z3.

[Euro Durch Tod]

are these times for the e46 M3? sorry i dont know german

[larryn]

As the article was written in Sept 2006, it was the E46 M3. That was long before the e90/e92 were even announced, never mind being made available for testing.

With the 135i being reported as just a bit better in performance, braking, and handling than the 335i, pretty much universally, I wonder how the M3 vs. 135i would be?

[Flatron]

yes, but don't forget, the e46 M3 test is from 2000.. with the latest tyre technology, a faster time should be possible.

[larryn]

True, but also put those same tires on the 335i too then, instead of the runflats they used in that test. I see the 335i as handicapped, in that regard.

[lifesaride]

Can you really use tires as a point of contention though? You'd have to stipulate the level of modification acceptable for the test. OEM if they don't have the same tires you'd be changing them from their true original competitiveness. If you allow that then it's not quite the same.

It seems that the auto journalists have been knocking the 135 as a little soft compared to what they'd like, if not what they'd expected. I can't help but think that there might be an even more capable 1 in the works--despite that as of now there won't be an M--which is worth waiting for.

[slipkmaggot]

Originally Posted by lifesaride

I can't help but think that there might be an even more capable 1 in the works--despite that as of now there won't be an M--which is worth waiting for.

tii FTW
my guess but 135i for meh, costing a pretty penny already.

[adc]

Originally Posted by lifesaride

Can you really use tires as a point of contention though? You'd have to stipulate the level of modification acceptable for the test. OEM if they don't have the same tires you'd be changing them from their true original competitiveness. If you allow that then it's not quite the same.

Well then, I expect an E46 M3 ZCP (competition package) would fare better - a little more tire, a lot more brake, better sorted suspension (that last is a point of wild contention ).

They should have taken the most capable M3 from one of the last production years, not from the first production year. And I hope those numbers were recorded on the same day with the same driver, otherwise they're not very accurate (meaning, were the M3 numbers from the year 2000??).

I drove my 335 on the Nurburgring and while I would never claim that I pushed it beyond 80% overall, I was dissappointed in the extra suspension flop.

It seems that the auto journalists have been knocking the 135 as a little soft compared to what they'd like, if not what they'd expected. I can't help but think that there might be an even more capable 1 in the works--despite that as of now there won't be an M--which is worth waiting for.

I am quite sure the 135 will have a tighter suspension than the 335. It would be quite impossible not to - the 335 rides brittle, but only because of the runflat tires - otherwise the suspension is fairly compliant. The 135i is supposed to have the "M Sport" suspension which in the past was measurably tighter than the regular "Sport" suspension.

Whether it will be sufficiently tight, well, we'll see...

[Nixon]

Originally Posted by Flatron

yes, but don't forget, the e46 M3 test is from 2000.. with the latest tyre technology, a faster time should be possible.

At least for this thread, getting to such detail in comparing the two doesn't really matter.

The OP just wants to get a general idea about the M3 vs. the 335i to get a feel for how the 135i might stack up against the M3.

I mean, you're talking about switching out tires, and the OP is talking about switching out entire vehicles (sub'ing the 335i in for the 135i to make a general comparison against the M3) :iono:

[semaj]

Originally Posted by adc

Well then, I expect an E46 M3 ZCP (competition package) would fare better - a little more tire, a lot more brake, better sorted suspension (that last is a point of wild contention ).

They should have taken the most capable M3 from one of the last production years, not from the first production year. And I hope those numbers were recorded on the same day with the same driver, otherwise they're not very accurate (meaning, were the M3 numbers from the year 2000??).

I drove my 335 on the Nurburgring and while I would never claim that I pushed it beyond 80% overall, I was dissappointed in the extra suspension flop.



I am quite sure the 135 will have a tighter suspension than the 335. It would be quite impossible not to - the 335 rides brittle, but only because of the runflat tires - otherwise the suspension is fairly compliant. The 135i is supposed to have the "M Sport" suspension which in the past was measurably tighter than the regular "Sport" suspension.

Whether it will be sufficiently tight, well, we'll see...

I thought the 135i has sport suspension standard? Isn't the "m-sport" suspension just a difference in semantics for the EU BMW market?

[adc]

Originally Posted by semaj

I thought the 135i has sport suspension standard? Isn't the "m-sport" suspension just a difference in semantics for the EU BMW market?

That is not my understanding - the 135i comes with the M Sport suspension calibrations standard.

In EU say on the 3 series, the "Sport" package is different than the "M Sport" package.

Who knows? I think it will be measurably tighter than the 335 "Sport", probably as tight as the 335 "M Sport".

[stage25401]

all bmw suspension is weak, in considering buying a 135 i know the first stop i make will be to ground control for a coil over set up

[Devon K]

Originally Posted by stage25401

all bmw suspension is weak, in considering buying a 135 i know the first stop i make will be to ground control for a coil over set up

Enjoy your kidney transplant!

[MastaMind]

Originally Posted by Devon K

Enjoy your kidney transplant!

Nah, I have GC/Koni Yellow combo on my current car. It's not too harsh.

[ersatzS2]

+1 ! Actually those are stunning numbers. The 4 second delta is well within the realm of driver variance or even variance in track condition from run to run. Effectively equal I'd say.

Originally Posted by aumoore

Look at those numbers again. 4 seconds on a 17 mile track is not that much and on the shorter course the 335 was .2 seconds slower. The 335 pulled more G's, had faster slalom course speed, faster evasive course.

[clived]

Originally Posted by bum944

R&T recently recorded 4.1 sec to 60 with the M3 coupe.

To echo the question above (which went unanswered....) Bum, are you sure this was an e46