BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-15-2007, 12:13 AM   #1
Legion5
Major
Legion5's Avatar
175
Rep
1,379
Posts

Drives: e92
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (12)

BMW says under 35k how about they charge $33700 and be done with it?

BMW seems to be playing a game where they are feeling out the market for how much they can rip their customers off for. On the plus side they recently announced their cap at 35k. That's a good move.

The reality of the situation that consumers must realize though is BMW is a bland car maker in Europe that just happens to be successful. For this reason much like Honda they also get the permission to export their products to foreign markets. In the US we don't have many euro spec cars so their autos totally seem exciting, right?

Wrong, once a run-of-the-mill car company, always a run-of-the-mill car company. (They do have a certain flare though and they do make good cars...)

In the EU the 1 series sells at being a moderately priced entry level car and is an OK and likable car. In America we haven't seen what BMW is going to do, but I can give you some insight as to what they want to do (because it's painfully obvious, that they are being nervous about pricing and market speculation based on how evasive they seem).


BMW as usual wants to sell a successful car to promote their company.

They also want to exploit the American population's obsessions with horsepower, and combine that with the BMW name to charge high prices.

The point of this post is that I am not seeing their vision at all in that second direction. (M3 yes that's something no one else can ballpark, here no). Firstly BMW has tried a similar formula to this and enacted that second point to varying degrees on all their models and frankly with this effect they become another uninteresting company that has nothing to offer to corner the market. They do their job very well, but they are about as interesting in their result as a public sewage system..

BMW is all about being big, complicated, and for the most part inaccessible to the main consumer as of recent, and that seems against their heritage of providing quality products to all.

Of course that quality and things like style are hugely important, but they are not that far off or uncommon these days when you take a pick of the litter.

I agree that refinement and sophistication has a price tag, but that price tag is set, and I would appreciate it if it also did not come with consumer exploitation attached to it (but I haven't seen BMW entirely decide on this so I'm not going to feel like their brand is insulting me yet by continuing in their stray from that heritage they have).

Anywho, BMW's flare is to have that little extra attention to detail that their competitors don't, and they do not go for a premium in integrating this feature, so besides that which is BMW's brand character, they also have certain major advantages over all others in two classes. These are undoubtedly style and handling (just look at a BMW and then look at a Suzuki for example, equally just drive a BMW and then just drive an Accura) right, let's be conservative and rate that "Refinement and Sophistication" & "Ultimate Driving Machineness" at a nice $5500.

Here's why I'm not seeing a 1 series, that's anything but cheep and easily accessible. (which it would nicely fit into being anyway)

Let's say you wanted to buy a nice car which is attractive and no slouch when you floor it.

for 28k and change you can buy one of their resonable competitors a Premium Retro Mustang GT, I've ridden in them and they can hold their own in terms any daily driving activity (done vigorously or not). In fact I would point out the car would be just as fast as the 1er.

So if I can buy a competing product for 5.5k less? Why should I pay that amount or worse MORE for "Ultimate Driving Machineness" & "Refinement and Sophistication", their two big series qualities?

I think most people might not agree they should, though there is something to be said about Bimmer Magic.

In any case how would you convince that average person that 5.5k is worth it over any other entry level?


Then better yet, why should I pay 5.5k more when for the same price, I can get a factory warrantied supercharger (yes you read that correctly), which will have that competitor pushing over 400hp to the ground??

To be honest, brand name means nothing, everyone knows you are in a bottom teir road rocket (from any choice in the 135's class). so taking that into account is a tunned body and a nicer attention to interior detail, better than over 400 hp?

I bet that result has you stuck if you have any nerve to call yourself a car enthusiast, and I haven't even started naming MID SIZED cars like the new CTS which are also pushing 300hp yet.

So discuss away at my current point I'd be glad to participate, but also realize the further you get away from that magic 33k price point.. the more ridiculous it ends up seeming to actually introduce a car for as much as Bimmer is indicating they might.

As they say in Comedy, the joke surrounding that ridicule might just be on THEM (Those Bavarians) and not a 1er fan.
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2007, 01:25 AM   #2
kurichan
Mr. Happy
8
Rep
479
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Aug 2007

iTrader: (0)

Appreciate 0
      09-15-2007, 02:03 AM   #3
AW09M3
1addict, and proud
0
Rep
57
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Irvine, CA

iTrader: (0)

^ +1
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2007, 03:20 AM   #4
Road Runner
Lieutenant
18
Rep
470
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Aug 2007

iTrader: (0)

You've got a lot of speaking points there. The one that sort of sticks out for me (not too flame or anything like that) is the comparison to the Mustang GT. I rented one down in Florida, a 2007, and used to borrow my buddy's 2003 Mustang GT, I also owned a Camaro with a nice bored and stroked 350 in it. So not only did I ride in Mustangs and Camaros, but I drove them, and I can tell you with 100% certainty that you aren't comparing apples to apples here. I like both muscle cars and euros but for completely different reasons.

hp is a simple number, and this premium Mustang GT you rode in may have had a more aggressive suspension set up than mine, but I found the one I drove to be pretty mushy as far as handling goes. Simply put, there is so much more to a car's driving dynamics than its hp. Talk to a lot of BMW drivers and I don't think they're really interested that what the car does when you floor it at a light. And frankly, if we want to talk about who knows how to make and sell cars, BMW and its euro counterparts are fairing far better than the domestic automakers.

And regarding your "consumer exploitation" comment, everything is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Whatever the price of the 1er may be, I won't feel I'm being exploited, because if its too much, I won't buy.
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2007, 07:07 AM   #5
atr_hugo
No longer moderate
atr_hugo's Avatar
No_Country
325
Rep
4,401
Posts

Drives: '13 135i
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: -

iTrader: (0)

Just a couple of quick observations:
  • BMW will charge what they think they can for this car. (Marketing 101 - the cost of producing an object has no relationship to it's price ; -)
  • The target audience is young, educated Japanese import buyers. ('Educated' is a good bellweather for earning potential. This is a 'build brand loyalty' vehicle.)
  • I suspect that the price of the car will slot at 85% of the equivalently equipped 3 series, 328i coupe/335i coupe. (+/- 2%)
  • There are a number of cars that are competitors for the 1er coupes - the Mustang is not one of them, the Mustang has some decent driving dynamics (best live rear axle I've been around in some time) but the material qualities of the interior are C-H-E-A-P.
As an aside, I've spent more than my fair share of time driving Mustangs over the years and this generation is about the best. Best Mustang I've driven, the Cobra R - what a slick, quick, well done package. But you shouldn't confuse the Mustang's mission in life for the 1er coupe's.
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2007, 07:41 AM   #6
larryn
Lieutenant General
United_States
2146
Rep
10,176
Posts

Drives: '97 332ti, '21 X5 45e, '16 GT4
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (2)

Legion5... I've been to Germany many, many times (just got back on Tuesday), and I can assure you that just because they still offer crank windows on some models, they are viewed as anything but bland over there.

As far as all that other rambling in the post.. you obviously have never driven a BMW for any length of time. I'll tell you what, in order for you to make an informed post, go test drive a 335i (the most comparable car to the 135i right now), then test drive a Mustang GT immediately afterwards. Once you've done that, post your impressions.
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2007, 07:58 AM   #7
Smokey
Lucky Lefty
Smokey's Avatar
45
Rep
746
Posts

Drives: on twisty roads
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: *

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 BMW M2 Comp  [0.00]
2017 Porsche Macan GTS  [8.00]
2011 M3  [10.00]
2013 bmw F25 msport  [10.00]
2011 335iS  [9.60]
Can I make a suggestion? Just don't buy a BMW-- buy something else!
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2007, 08:56 AM   #8
bimmernotbeamer
Lieutenant
28
Rep
581
Posts

Drives: N/A
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: N/A

iTrader: (0)

BMW's are bland? You've obviously NEVER driven one. Go drive on, then come back and talk to us.
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2007, 09:10 AM   #9
BimmerBoi2100
Private First Class
2
Rep
145
Posts

Drives: 2009 Black 135i
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Da Desert

iTrader: (0)

How do you call yoursefl a 1er fan? I just shitted on the whole BMW brand. You proved your point on American lust for HP and this is why Ford and GM are going down the tube. Have you ever heard of the term BALANCE? BMW is proven in this category.

It is clear that you have never driven a BMW and it's ridiculous that you would come to the board and maquerade yourself as a 1-er/BMW fan. Stick with your Mustang bud. Don't say nothing when a 135i smokes your ass.
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2007, 09:20 AM   #10
1ster
Large Member
1ster's Avatar
160
Rep
937
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Aug 2007

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legion5 View Post
Please convince me otherwise.
Why should we? :iono:
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2007, 09:48 AM   #11
ibeam81
Captain
United_States
20
Rep
722
Posts

Drives: 2016 EBII M235i, 2004 Acura TL
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germantown, MD

iTrader: (0)

What a bizarre post. Hopefully you don't write for a living. :iono:

Based upon what I can decipher from your rambling daitribe, it sounds like you are already sold on the Mustang. If so, buy one and enjoy it. But before you do so, you might want to heed another poster's advice and test drive a 335i. You might not like the price, but you'll probabaly find that you like the car. Good luck.
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2007, 09:56 AM   #12
BForbes
Moderator
BForbes's Avatar
Bahamas
556
Rep
4,240
Posts

Drives: BSM 135i/AW E90 M3
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Orlando, FL

iTrader: (0)

The Original Poster has already lost all credibility when he compared a 135i to a Cadillac CTS. Yes the Cadillac is pushing 300hp but you forgot to mention it surpasses 4000lbs(says CarandDriver). Before you start spouting off at the keyboard do some research. I was born and bred to love fords but I would never think the mustang and 135i is in the same class. The hard and cheap looking plastics are EVERYWHERE. The mustang is also much bigger. Enjoy your mustang and I'll enjoy my 135i. Happy Saturday.
__________________
- 04 Honda S2000(gone)
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2007, 11:10 AM   #13
SD330i
Private First Class
SD330i's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
153
Posts

Drives: Silver 330i
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (0)

I come from a long history of American cars. I have owned Mustang and have driven numerous others. I can tell you with certainty that there is no comparision between the two. I had a 94 Mustang "tuned" and then went to an E46 330i, lets just say the E46 was the better in many ways. I have an E90 now and although I like it alot I am still desiring the E46.

For this reason I am looking hard at the 135i, hoping for the feel of an E46 and the tunability of other cars. I dont like to tune because I can, I tune because it is fun and a passion me and for a lot of people. I am 37 years old and this is Probably part of their stategy at BMW. Yes I could go by an M3 but will reserve when I see the final prices. One thing is that I have enough FF miles to fly to Germany for free so it I can get the 135i for a direct swap of my E90 then I walk away free and clear.
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2007, 12:25 PM   #14
ducati
First Lieutenant
11
Rep
394
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Aug 2007

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legion5 View Post
I've ridden in them and they can hold their own in terms any daily driving activity (done vigorously or not).

<snip>

and I haven't even started naming MID SIZED cars like the new CTS which are also pushing 300hp yet.
Try driving instead of "riding."

And not on a PlayStation.
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2007, 12:36 PM   #15
atr_hugo
No longer moderate
atr_hugo's Avatar
No_Country
325
Rep
4,401
Posts

Drives: '13 135i
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: -

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ducati View Post
Try driving instead of "riding."

And not on a PlayStation.
Oh that's just plain mean!!
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2007, 01:47 PM   #16
ibeam81
Captain
United_States
20
Rep
722
Posts

Drives: 2016 EBII M235i, 2004 Acura TL
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germantown, MD

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ducati View Post
Try driving instead of "riding."

And not on a PlayStation.
Ouch!
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2007, 02:52 PM   #17
Devon K
Lieutenant
Devon K's Avatar
37
Rep
570
Posts

Drives: TBD
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Actually you can get a pretty good feel for the handling dynamics of several Bimmers (at least in race trim) with the rFactor PC racing sim and its many mods - some have been tested and tuned with the cooperation of professional racers and with a good wheel like the G25 the feel is quite realistic.

There is a fun 1 series mod for rFactor that uses close-to-production specs, and it's a blast to drive. Hopefully they will add the coupe body style and the 135 engine in their next version.
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2007, 03:03 PM   #18
dumesday4u
New Member
0
Rep
26
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Jul 2007

iTrader: (0)

the entire post is nonsense. how could you possibly compare a mustang (engine on wheels) vs bmw ( the entire package, best of all worlds)? there in 2 whole different class.
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2007, 03:23 PM   #19
BMWeber
Major
36
Rep
1,329
Posts

Drives: 08 135i
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Amesbury, MA

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dumesday4u View Post
the entire post is nonsense. how could you possibly compare a mustang (engine on wheels) vs bmw ( the entire package, best of all worlds)? there in 2 whole different class.
+1 agreed

I've owned M3s corvettes camaros and many other various American and european cars, you cant compair a mustang to a BMW the whole mentality behind each design is miles apart. its hard to compair any American car to a BMW. American car makers just don't understand the meaning of a balanced package
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2007, 04:18 PM   #20
Legion5
Major
Legion5's Avatar
175
Rep
1,379
Posts

Drives: e92
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road Runner View Post
You've got a lot of speaking points there. The one that sort of sticks out for me (not too flame or anything like that) is the comparison to the Mustang GT. I rented one down in Florida, a 2007, and used to borrow my buddy's 2003 Mustang GT, I also owned a Camaro with a nice bored and stroked 350 in it. So not only did I ride in Mustangs and Camaros, but I drove them, and I can tell you with 100% certainty that you aren't comparing apples to apples here. I like both muscle cars and euros but for completely different reasons.

hp is a simple number, and this premium Mustang GT you rode in may have had a more aggressive suspension set up than mine, but I found the one I drove to be pretty mushy as far as handling goes. Simply put, there is so much more to a car's driving dynamics than its hp. Talk to a lot of BMW drivers and I don't think they're really interested that what the car does when you floor it at a light. And frankly, if we want to talk about who knows how to make and sell cars, BMW and its euro counterparts are fairing far better than the domestic automakers.
Making and selling cars consistently well is a good thing, but when you purchase a car, you're only getting one model and not the line. As such while being on average good (as a brand) eases the decision to get a particular car of a brand, what really matters is how good the best offering in a class is, no BMW magic is going to interfere with that.

Manufacturers are less important than individual models. Especially now a days, There are American cars such as Dodges and Chevy's that have engines plucked from Europe or Japan so the whole situation of advantages ends up being a bit of a mess.

I agree with you that handling is a great thing, but do you really believe in your view that it's worth a penny more than having 400 hp?

A recent reviewer rated the GT with the dealer installed Ford Handling Pack ($2200) option, as being on par with many euro spec cars. That's near track style performance.

Quote:
And regarding your "consumer exploitation" comment, everything is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Whatever the price of the 1er may be, I won't feel I'm being exploited, because if its too much, I won't buy.
Then you are smart, but then there are others who have imaginations thick with concepts about Bimmers where those concepts are just that, only in their imaginations. The sad part is HYPE, what I just described, is not something you can FEEL when you wake up in the morning and start an engine. It's not something that improves skid pad ratings, and it's certainly not something that adds torque or extra speed. :smile:

HYPE however might be something that can take a car and puts it in an entirely higher class, which is a shame because the new bimmer would be a good addition to the mid entry level group.
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2007, 04:30 PM   #21
Legion5
Major
Legion5's Avatar
175
Rep
1,379
Posts

Drives: e92
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryn View Post
Legion5... I've been to Germany many, many times (just got back on Tuesday), and I can assure you that just because they still offer crank windows on some models, they are viewed as anything but bland over there.

As far as all that other rambling in the post.. you obviously have never driven a BMW for any length of time. I'll tell you what, in order for you to make an informed post, go test drive a 335i (the most comparable car to the 135i right now), then test drive a Mustang GT immediately afterwards. Once you've done that, post your impressions.
Well that's Germany. You're corrupting the point. In places like France, Italy and Norway they are viewed as everything AND bland. When you walk down the streets you see a million Citroens Peugeots etc that all look like BMW clones.

Admit that at least. I like BMW as much as the next person, I'm not trying to insult them, but this is how the car manufacturer really is.

I actually am a fan of comparing real world cars instead of BS statistics and I test drove the 335i and in no way does it compare to a GT, it's a lot like a G35 actually, except sharper and better, more pleasant even and the body control is significantly improved in all senses. Here's the thing though if we are talking about the 335i we're discussing a much much bigger wheel base here (to the 135), and a much higher price tag. You really can't magically replace a 335i with a 135i.

If we're talking about the 335i I would be disgusted at myself if I chose a GT over a brand new 335er. However if we make the choice more realistic and pick a GT500 or even a blown GT and a 335i then the decision gets blurred again.

(contrary to popular belief Supercarged GT's don't break loose much, take a Saleen for example.)

Anyway, I see the advantages of one or the other in the above realistic comparison depending largely on mood and preference rather than excelling in any absolute sense.
Appreciate 0
      09-15-2007, 04:52 PM   #22
Legion5
Major
Legion5's Avatar
175
Rep
1,379
Posts

Drives: e92
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBoi2100 View Post
How do you call yoursefl a 1er fan? I just shitted on the whole BMW brand. You proved your point on American lust for HP and this is why Ford and GM are going down the tube. Have you ever heard of the term BALANCE? BMW is proven in this category.

It is clear that you have never driven a BMW and it's ridiculous that you would come to the board and maquerade yourself as a 1-er/BMW fan. Stick with your Mustang bud. Don't say nothing when a 135i smokes your ass.
My girlfriend had a twin screw BMW 330Ci, I rode in it and drove the monster a time or two, it's neat, it's pretty it's cool.. however it was not the best by any means. I've seen several well so called very balanced cars see a downfall to their competitors, balance is not perfection. A good friend of mine, Dave who is a Lawyer drove a Continental GT until the end of this year, it was supposedly regarded as this amazing car... yet he was not happy with it and I agree with his viewpoint. The interior materials weren't befitting a car of it's class and it didn't seem worth how much he paid for it (his words). A brand new Corvette though, this small cabined unbalanced car low and behold worked out much better.

Balance is just another type of car configuration

Your opinion that I shitted on the entire BMW brand loses credibility when we note that you are from Germany. I'm not trying to dislike BMW at all I'm just pointing out facts, don't take it personally. I'm not shitting on BMW.

Ok, I am not a 1series fan. I am a car fan.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:21 AM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST