[rebekahb]

I have a question in regards to how y'all would handle this. Also, would appreciate feedback from any managers/owners on how you would like an employee to come to you to ask about a raise.

I've been with my company 10 years this August. We went to a pay scale in 2015 where we have a base salary and then we have a quarterly goal to meet. Anything over that number we get 10%. I have not had a raise since 9/2015. Each quarter for the past 3-4 years I have been number 1. Years prior to that I bounced between 1 & 2. I increased business from 2019-2020 by roughly $700k. Last year took a slight dip due to reimbursement changes but still remained in the number 1 spot.

-If you're looking at experience and competitiveness in the job market I'm at least 50k under where I should be on salary.
-I make about 7.2% of what I bring in.
-For those that are performance based, what % do you bring home on the total dollar amount you bring in?

I have a manager but he isn't one in the normal sense of the job description. I have a lot of autonomy because I do my job and perform. He told me the owner didn't see value in giving us a raise because it wouldn't bring in anymore profit for him. He has also told us that if they raise our salary then they will raise our quarterly quota. I really don't know if he has even asked the owner.

The owner text me this am and said he will be in town and asked me to meet him for drinks. I feel like it's time I have this conversation with him in person. I appreciate the time anyone takes to respond and share advice.

[tcphoto]

If you've been the top or second salesperson for 3-4 years and haven't received a raise or substantial bonus, I would certainly want to have a conversation with your boss. I'd talk about the consistent revenue you bring and point out that you require little to no "management" since you are self motivated. Perhaps the owner has noticed your performance and meeting for drinks will allow him to make it right. If not, I would make my points and see how he/she responds.

Perhaps, it is time to think about moving on if it doesn't go as you like. These are times where the power is shifting slightly to the employee, I would listen to what the owner has to say and then react accordingly.

[Alfisti]

I would start to look around, speak to recruiters, see what else is out there, know the true market value then discuss with the boss.

[Mason Hatcher]

Sell more, give yourself a raise

[UncleWede]

1-1, with the boss, for drinks?

I'll look for this on pron-hub

Seriously, since the quota is there on your performance, maybe asking instead of the base salary, that you receive a larger portion on the sales? Raising the salary for everyone in the company doesn't encourage sales.

I have no experience here though, I've only ever worked non-sales positions.

[Former-Mopar]

Time for a new job.

[wren57]

I was in nearly the exact same position at the beginning of this year. Top producer on average for 5 of the last 6 years, yet well underpaid not only in terms of the market but also my company. I put the numbers together (sources cited) and approached my boss. He was receptive and told me to send him a proposal. I sent a proposal with a 50k raise and an increase from 3% to 4%. In the week or so it took him to review it, I told those close to him I was seriously considering leaving (so that would get back to him). I got an email back saying approved.

Long story short, just get the numbers together and go forward. Be prepared to leave if you don't get what you feel you deserve.

[Alfisti]

I think it is easier to leave a job in most US states than in Ontario, here you have tenure so unless fired with cause (which is VERY hard to prove) it is hard to leave when you may be leaving 18 months of protection on the table.

[UncleWede]

We did a class-comp study.
I've been topped out in my pay scale for a couple years.
My position came back that the top is 28-32% below the mean of surrounding entities.
My duties have changed significantly, and continue in the direction of management instead of tech work.
I haven't had a review in almost 3 years, so have no feedback on how I'm doing.

Gosh, but I need some F-You money . . . although I'd feel really bad leaving them in the lurch after 18 years.

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by rebekahb

I have a question in regards to how y'all would handle this. Also, would appreciate feedback from any managers/owners on how you would like an employee to come to you to ask about a raise.

I've been with my company 10 years this August. We went to a pay scale in 2015 where we have a base salary and then we have a quarterly goal to meet. Anything over that number we get 10%. I have not had a raise since 9/2015. Each quarter for the past 3-4 years I have been number 1. Years prior to that I bounced between 1 & 2. I increased business from 2019-2020 by roughly $700k. Last year took a slight dip due to reimbursement changes but still remained in the number 1 spot.

-If you're looking at experience and competitiveness in the job market I'm at least 50k under where I should be on salary.
-I make about 7.2% of what I bring in.
-For those that are performance based, what % do you bring home on the total dollar amount you bring in?

I have a manager but he isn't one in the normal sense of the job description. I have a lot of autonomy because I do my job and perform. He told me the owner didn't see value in giving us a raise because it wouldn't bring in anymore profit for him. He has also told us that if they raise our salary then they will raise our quarterly quota. I really don't know if he has even asked the owner.

The owner text me this am and said he will be in town and asked me to meet him for drinks. I feel like it's time I have this conversation with him in person. I appreciate the time anyone takes to respond and share advice.

I'm not in sales, but IT, and there are a few key things I see here looking at this from an employer perspective.

Autonomy is good and bad. Great for being your own boss, bad when you actually need response from higher ups because they just expect you to "figure it out" and basically turn "not needing guidance" into "we won't provide guidance".

To me it's a sign of poor leadership that wants to just hand off responsibility while still making as much profit as possible (wouldn't we all?).

Your boss is an idiot, and unfortunately someone who isn't going to advocate for you. Increasing your salary won't in theory gain more profit for the company, but they also have the potential to lose a lot of profit if their top sales person for several years goes to a competitor's company.

Now is the time to bring this up with the owner. Don't throw anyone under the bus, but start with your qualifications (sales leader, how much you have grown the business) when asking for your raise. Any business owner with intelligence will recognize the importance of keeping top performing employees happy either in the form of a raise or a promotion. Your boss might just be afraid that the owner will give you his job.

[Turkish Pickle]

Go talk with recruiters.

I had a rough convo with my bosses last week, started looking elsewhere, already spoke with a few companies and scheduled interviews. EVERYONE and EVERYWHERE is hiring.

Another thing to potentially look out for is, if you want to stay there, if they have a max % increase rule. My buddy was getting promoted, and they offered him a lot more money, but HR said no that's not ok since it passes the % increase when you're moving within the company. Some idiot also informed him that they gave him an outsider's rate, basically saying we'll pay you more if you're switching over to our company instead of you working hard to get promoted here.

Never hurts to know your options

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by rebekahb

He told me the owner didn't see value in giving us a raise because it wouldn't bring in anymore profit for him. He has also told us that if they raise our salary then they will raise our quarterly quota.

I agree with others on looking for a new job, based solely off this comment. If true, it signals an owner who sees no value in employee morale and recognition of productivity. High productivity levels need to be rewarded, because otherwise employees can just as easily go back down to baseline productivity. Why put in the extra work without hopes for a raise/promotion when you can put in the bare minimum and get a similar result?

I'd see what the owner has to say, but if he echoes this sentiment, definitely time to look for a new job.

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by Former-Mopar

Time for a new job.

This.

It's time to move. Don't take counter-offers.

[Tommy-G]

This is tough on many levels, Ill number it so you can address what you like:
1-as a manager, I always want my people to be happy and paid well. If they are happy they perform better and that only makes me more money. My pay plan is based on their success but its my job to motivate them and keep morale up. SO, I think your manager is a large part of the problem

2-in todays world, everyone knows how hard it is to find good help. Again, the reason you make sure to take care of your people. That being said, I would look around and speak to others in the field or recruiters to know where you stand.

3-I always want my people to feel they can come talk to me about anything. My boss is super approachable also but asking for a raise is always a weird feeling. I took my job with this company at a major pay cut but a much better company and opportunity. It has been over 4 years and I have been playing this same scenario out for weeks as well.

4-I have been contemplating going in to meet with my supervisor and explaining that I have been here for 4 years and not had a review. I would request the opportunity for him to review my performance. Not that I am necessarily asking for a raise but for a performance review and a pay review to bring me to current market or something like that.

[///M ARMY]

Know your value know your worth...

[infinitekidM2C]

Recruiters, interview get offer; then take that to your current for a raise. Just did it myself.

[chassis]

I have been in management and executive roles for almost 25 years.

Options:
- sell more
- have the discussion with the owner
- find another job

I see no issue with having the discussion with the owner if it is handled in a mature, objective and non-emotional way. It’s just business.

[tcphoto]

It is cheaper to pay a top employee well than to train a new one. How long would it take a new sales employee to make up for the loss after you leave?

[Joe T]

So I'm a VP of sales for a $6 billion company. We haven't given a sales rep a raise in 40 years. They give themselves a raise...

It's eat what you kill in sales.

for nice round numbers to make it easy... One of our sales reps sells $5,000,000 a year, at 25% margin. His Pay is 25% of the 25%

Gross profit is $1,250,000... The company does all the buying and warehousing of inventory, shipping, invoicing, and most of the collecting... for that the owner takes 75%

as the sales rep you get the other 25% or $312,500.


Want a raise? sell more or increase margin Increase your margin to 30%, you just gave yourself a $62,500 raise and sold less product (at a higher margin)

I had a discussion with a rep this morning, she wants to pick up another product line for one of her customers that they're buying from a competitor for about 5% over our cost. It would be about $1,000,000 in sales on this line for her. So it'll increase her sales from roughly 4.2mm to about 5.16mm. But it will drop the gross margin in that account by 8 points overall.

So while I'd love the $1,000,000 in sales and the $80,000 in GROSS Profit (I'll actually make more by her doing so because I'm bonused on topline)... she'll do MORE work for LESS money on the account.


We have some reps that write $10million and more, but at lower margins, they contract everything or bid with hospitals and municipalities. One guy may work 18 hours a day... to make $200k. If he'd work smarter and not be the "cheap guy" he and the company would be more profitable. Another guy at $2.5mm at 40% is making $250K


the structure is a little more complex than that and has variables like drop size, payment terms etc... but that's a quick snap.

so with your issue, if you came to me, my answer would be to sell more and give yourself a raise.

We tried a model of base plus commission (and bring new people on with that model until they have enough business to convert to 100% commission) but found the 100% commission people perform better because there's a bigger upside. Bigger risk/reward

[billnchristy]

I'd definitely hear what the guy has to say. Maybe all this is for naught.

[Turkish Pickle]

Originally Posted by Joe T

So I'm a VP of sales for a $6 billion company. We haven't given a sales rep a raise in 40 years. They give themselves a raise...

It's eat what you kill in sales.

for nice round numbers to make it easy... One of our sales reps sells $5,000,000 a year, at 25% margin. His Pay is 25% of the 25%

Gross profit is $1,250,000... The company does all the buying and warehousing of inventory, shipping, invoicing, and most of the collecting... for that the owner takes 75%

as the sales rep you get the other 25% or $312,500.


Want a raise? sell more or increase margin Increase your margin to 30%, you just gave yourself a $62,500 raise and sold less product (at a higher margin)

I had a discussion with a rep this morning, she wants to pick up another product line for one of her customers that they're buying from a competitor for about 5% over our cost. It would be about $1,000,000 in sales on this line for her. So it'll increase her sales from roughly 4.2mm to about 5.16mm. But it will drop the gross margin in that account by 8 points overall.

So while I'd love the $1,000,000 in sales and the $80,000 in GROSS Profit (I'll actually make more by her doing so because I'm bonused on topline)... she'll do MORE work for LESS money on the account.


We have some reps that write $10million and more, but at lower margins, they contract everything or bid with hospitals and municipalities. One guy may work 18 hours a day... to make $200k. If he'd work smarter and not be the "cheap guy" he and the company would be more profitable. Another guy at $2.5mm at 40% is making $250K


the structure is a little more complex than that and has variables like drop size, payment terms etc... but that's a quick snap.

so with your issue, if you came to me, my answer would be to sell more and give yourself a raise.

We tried a model of base plus commission (and bring new people on with that model until they have enough business to convert to 100% commission) but found the 100% commission people perform better because there's a bigger upside. Bigger risk/reward

Sounded like this sorta train of thought is why she's asking about this on Bimmerpost, just saying

[Nuckle]

My base has remained the same for 25+ years. Commission plan has multiple areas you can earn that moves around some and if anything has gotten worse. The increase in cost of good has been a "raise" if you think about it.

The meat of it is I get 35% of every gross profit dollar I generate.