[MsGoGoMoto]

I've been thinking about this. I see a majority of you own a BMW with a conventional engine.
To be honest, I've avoided owning a BMW because of hearing about the "maintenance" costs. I've always followed the mainstream and avoided BMWs because of this.

Now that I'm here. I want to ask. Is it really expensive to own and maintain your vehicles?

What do you consider expensive and high maintenance costs compared to owning a Nissan or Toyota?

My husband is on the fence on pre- ordering an iX. He's actually on the payment page about to fill it out and fork over the $1500 to preorder and configure his vehicle. 83K!! Damn.
He said that he doesn't want a gasoline powered BMW and the i3 seems to be a good choice for low maintenance. Except.. he wants a grown up i3

[Manny01]

I've read that ~80% of new BMW's are leased, ~70% of owners sell their BMW after the warranty expires, and BMW has the highest average long-term repair cost of the major auto brands.

And yet I still paid cash for a new 21 M2C because it's such an amazing sports car.

Pretty much tells you everything you need to know.

[wtwo3]

I lease. I can't stomach long term ownership of anything outside of a Toyota or Lexus. Not so much because of the cost (that plays a role as well) but because of the hassle of maintenance/repairs as the car ages. I've had a couple of Nissan's in the past, and the frequency of problems after 100k miles really turned me off. Constant visits to the mechanic, and in a couple situations being stranded on the side of the road. Even small problems like a check engine light coming on would just ruin my mood.

[freakystyly]

My E90 was 8yrs old and bought with cash. I had it for another 7yrs and paid approximately the same value I paid for it in repairs. All in all, about 50% of original MSRP to own it for 7 years and 300kkms. I had to "old yeller" it due to rust mostly, the engine easily had another 300k left in it.

The 3C frost chime sounds the same as the check engine chime and started giving me PTSD even though it was largely reliable and never left me stranded.

[MsGoGoMoto]

I see where you're coming from.
I own a 1999 BMW K1200RS sport touring motorcycle. I'll say this right now.
Out of all the bikes I've owned, the BMW rides perfectly balanced and handling is superior.

It's a ballistic missile. 1200 CCs is a ton of bike, but it didn't scare me until I decided to act like an idiot and speed to see what it was like.

145 MPH was almost perfect as I could not tell how fast I was going till I looked down.
It was smooth, an absolute time warp. Scary.
I put the bike up for 5 months afterward. I was an idiot racing against a guy on a Harley on a country back road straightaway Dumb. Stupid.

My i3 handles just the same. The ride is smooth and I can tell why we all are here in these forums. I get it.

So, leasing is the way to go? To be safe?

[cfm56d7b]

As with any car, there isn't a scientific method to predetermine if a certain manufacturer's vehicles have a higher record of repair bills. There are only perspectives.

The more realistic question: for those plan to keep the car beyond manufacturer's warranty expiration, what could be done to minimize repair costs?

My humble list:

1. Consider mechanical breakdown policy from a credit union (will trigger a debate ....)
2. Understand common potential failure points, like OEM charge pipe in N55 engines. Replace it with am aftermarket charge pipe - many choices.
3. Don't skip maintenance items

Cars are a collection of many components made by other suppliers. The reliability is a measure of how these components - made by other companies on a certain date - work together. And that's where everyone's experience will vary, beginning with climate differences alone.

[King_Leonard]

My guess is that the total lifetime cost of owning an EV/PHEV/ICE will all be similar, if not more for the newer EVs (new shiny toy). If so, it sounds like the 83K includes any lost revenue by BMW that would otherwise be made later on from an ICE vehicle sale.

[Efthreeoh]

I've owned BMWs for 30 years. Over 1.1M chassis miles and 980K driven (i.e. some were used). My newest is a 2008, pre turbo. I know the operating costs well. If you are not a knowledgeable car owner and just want the perception of "Toyota" reliability/low maintenance costs then don't get a new BMW. Get a new Toyota.

If you are a gearhead conscious owner who knows to not get yanked by her mechanic, or if you can do some level of repair, then get a pre-turbo BMW and enjoy the experience. IMO new BMWs are boring and Toyotish but with less reliability and higher cost of ownership.

[MsGoGoMoto]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I've owned BMWs for 30 years. Over 1.3M chassis miles and 980K driven. My newest is a 2008, pre turbo. I know the operating costs well. If you are now a knowledgeable car owner and just want the perception of "Toyota" reliability/low maintenance costs then don't get a new BMW. Get a new Toyota.

If you are a gear head conscious owner who knows to not get yanked by her mechanic, or if you can do some level of repair, then get a pre-turbo BMW and enjoy the experience. IMO new BMWs are boring and Toyotish but with less reliability and higher cost of ownership.

My i3 manual doesn't even have a service section.
Like how to fill the coolant. What kind to use.
Nothing.

So, I have to go to the dealer to add coolant?
Are all newer BMWs like this? No dyi service in the owners manual?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by MsGoGoMoto

My i3 manual doesn't even have a service section.
Like how to fill the coolant. What kind to use.
Nothing.

So, I have to go to the dealer to add coolant?
Are all newer BMWs like this? No dyi service in the owners manual?

Pretty much. It started in the mid 2000's that way. BMW wants you to lease and turn it in after 3 years. In fact I'd say BMW pretty much perfected the no-involvement lease paradigm. They make a shit load more money that way.

But there is tons of internet sourced maintenance info to consult. Your skill set does have HVAC system maintenance and repair in it, so keeping a BMW running isn't that far a step from that. It's just a different knowledge base.

[MsGoGoMoto]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Pretty much. It started in the mid 2000's that way. BMW wants you to lease and turn it in after 3 years. In fact I'd say BMW pretty much perfected the no-involvement lease paradigm. They make a shit load more money that way.

Whaaaaaaat?

So basically, the vehicles are designed to break and send the owner to the dealership for service?

I am hooked now. My i3 is awesome.

[freakystyly]

Just don't get an e-tron unless you want to keep taking it in for oil changes.

https://electrek.co/2020/02/11/audi-...ds-oil-change/

But seriously, EVs should probably be maintained by a licensed mechanic. Even the brake system is tied into high voltage.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by MsGoGoMoto

Whaaaaaaat?

So basically, the vehicles are designed to break and send the owner to the dealership for service?

I am hooked now. My i3 is awesome.

I've had five in total, and still running four of them. I don't think they break all that much. They are easy to fix for the most part. You need scan tools of course, but is just metal machine logic. Easy shit. I daily 170 miles a day in mine. I'll match my 15 year old E90 up to any 15 year old Toytoy any day of the week. It's cost me 31-cents per mile. Drives like it's brand new. And I've killed 3 deer with it too. Lol.

[2000cs]

Without depreciation I generally figure $0.50/mile and with depreciation, depending on the model, at least $1.00/mile. That is fuel, tires, maintenance,etc except registration and insurance.

[UncleWede]

The E90 we bought in 2005 was recently sold to the oldest son when we got the G01. He had it towed to the house once in the past couple months (can't remember why) and he limped into the driveway one other time because a hose popped off the radiator.

WHY he keeps bringing it back, I do not know. He moved out a while ago. I gave him the 30/30 guarantee when we signed over the pink.

He apparently lusted after his mom's CAR all the time we had it. . .

[TiMSport]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I've had five in total, and still running four of them. I don't think they break all that much. They are easy to fix for the most part. You need scan tools of course, but is just metal machine logic. Easy shit. I daily 170 miles a day in mine. I'll match my 15 year old E90 up to any 15 year old Toytoy any day of the week. It's cost me 31-cents per mile. Drives like it's brand new. And I've killed 3 deer with it too. Lol.

If anything, I would think the latest gen cars should be more reliable, no? I own a brand new G20 and love it. I don't put many miles on my cars as my commutes are extremely short. I take good care of my cars as well. Seems like issues these days with new cars are more prone to electronic stuff more than mechanical. I'd like to think these electronic issues are easier and cheaper to resolve. Though I haven't put many miles on the M340i yet, it has been flawless and feels extremely robust. I don't know, we'll see how I feel after 3 years. The payoff for it will be extremely tempting compared to what I'd be able to buy in comparison for the same price range. I like the idea of it being an inline 6 ICE because they won't be made for that much longer. Hmm.

[6oclockshadow]

Originally Posted by 2000cs

Without depreciation I generally figure $0.50/mile and with depreciation, depending on the model, at least $1.00/mile. That is fuel, tires, maintenance,etc except registration and insurance.

This is my experience too. About a buck a mile, all in, during my ownership.

[zx10guy]

Bought my 2013 135i new. I have to say overall, it's been pretty reliable. Car has 100k miles on it now. The only nagging issue I've had with it is the DCT. I recently took it to the dealer to have the adaptations reset for $169. Last time I had it done was about 3 or so years ago. Not sure if the reset was mileage or time dependent. I've kept on top of the required maintenance. Took care of the OFHG leak as soon as it rear its ugly head. And changed the oil at twice the recommended intervals that BMW recommends.

Since you brought up motorcycles, my Ducati has been far more unreliable than my BMW auto. Horizontal head gasket failure, failed LED on one of the mirror turn signals, failed immobilizer antenna, failed clutch master, and failed fuel tank (still an issue as a design flaw). Those are the things off the top of my head that I remember being done under warranty. What wasn't covered under warranty that I fixed later on my own are failed radiator (known design flaw) and failed voltage regulator (known weak point).

I do have a BMW scooter (2016 C650 Sport). So far it's been reliable. It's due for a service which I'll do. I plan on buying the new gen S1000RR at some point. Figure I might as well get one as a street bike as that's the bike I use at the track.

My "reliable" vehicles are my 2004 Kawasaki Ninja ZX-10R. It has a valve cover leak but it hasn't gotten worse. Just enough to seep a little. The thing just runs. All I've done to it is to change the oil. And my daily grocery getter is a 2019 Toyota C-HR. It's got 60k miles on it and I've only done oil changes. It has a periodic issue with the passive braking system in heavy rain or snow. However, I've seen some reports of the CVT failing prematurely on these cars.

[MsGoGoMoto]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Bought my 2013 135i new. I have to say overall, it's been pretty reliable. Car has 100k miles on it now. The only nagging issue I've had with it is the DCT. I recently took it to the dealer to have the adaptations reset for $169. Last time I had it done was about 3 or so years ago. Not sure if the reset was mileage or time dependent. I've kept on top of the required maintenance. Took care of the OFHG leak as soon as it rear its ugly head. And changed the oil at twice the recommended intervals that BMW recommends.

Since you brought up motorcycles, my Ducati has been far more unreliable than my BMW auto. Horizontal head gasket failure, failed LED on one of the mirror turn signals, failed immobilizer antenna, failed clutch master, and failed fuel tank (still an issue as a design flaw). Those are the things off the top of my head that I remember being done under warranty. What wasn't covered under warranty that I fixed later on my own are failed radiator (known design flaw) and failed voltage regulator (known weak point).

I do have a BMW scooter (2016 C650 Sport). So far it's been reliable. It's due for a service which I'll do. I plan on buying the new gen S1000RR at some point. Figure I might as well get one as a street bike as that's the bike I use at the track.

My "reliable" vehicles are my 2004 Kawasaki Ninja ZX-10R. It has a valve cover leak but it hasn't gotten worse. Just enough to seep a little. The thing just runs. All I've done to it is to change the oil. And my daily grocery getter is a 2019 Toyota C-HR. It's got 60k miles on it and I've only done oil changes. It has a periodic issue with the passive braking system in heavy rain or snow. However, I've seen some reports of the CVT failing prematurely on these cars.

I've heard nothing good about CVTs. They say nissans are the worst with them.
I had a maxima as a company vehicle. It didn't drive too bad. Once I got into a BMW, all other cars now suck.

Same with my BMW k1200rs bike.

My Honda CBR 600, Yamaha Fz1, are now sub par to the BMW.

I'm used to owning a car 20yrs. With the i3, that means at least one new battery. I've already looked into cost.

Pain.

[Bunnny]

Lease, because replacing that battery is worth it alone if you are choosing a non-gasoline vehicle. Even the battery in my 2015 M4 is $2200 for lithium ion, and in an all electric Tesla I know its as high as $16,000.
Electric vehicles (I think) will flop because no one wants to pay their maintenance cost. France tried them, and theres already a junk yard for EV's.

Originally Posted by MsGoGoMoto

I see where you're coming from.
I own a 1999 BMW K1200RS sport touring motorcycle. I'll say this right now.
Out of all the bikes I've owned, the BMW rides perfectly balanced and handling is superior.

It's a ballistic missile. 1200 CCs is a ton of bike, but it didn't scare me until I decided to act like an idiot and speed to see what it was like.

145 MPH was almost perfect as I could not tell how fast I was going till I looked down.
It was smooth, an absolute time warp. Scary.
I put the bike up for 5 months afterward. I was an idiot racing against a guy on a Harley on a country back road straightaway Dumb. Stupid.

My i3 handles just the same. The ride is smooth and I can tell why we all are here in these forums. I get it.

So, leasing is the way to go? To be safe?

[shoei]

Originally Posted by Bunnny

Lease, because replacing that battery is worth it alone if you are choosing a non-gasoline vehicle. Even the battery in my 2015 M4 is $2200 for lithium ion, and in an all electric Tesla I know its as high as $16,000.
Electric vehicles (I think) will flop because no one wants to pay their maintenance cost. France tried them, and theres already a junk yard for EV's.

Prius owners with high mileage found how quick how much life sucks when having to replace batteries around 100K miles. It's ridiculously expensive.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by MsGoGoMoto

I've heard nothing good about CVTs. They say nissans are the worst with them.
I had a maxima as a company vehicle. It didn't drive too bad. Once I got into a BMW, all other cars now suck.

Same with my BMW k1200rs bike.

My Honda CBR 600, Yamaha Fz1, are now sub par to the BMW.

I'm used to owning a car 20yrs. With the i3, that means at least one new battery. I've already looked into cost.

Pain.

Well, now you qualified your statement a bit. If you tend to keep cars 20 years, then by all means get a BMW. I have a 24 year old one. I kept the E30 18 years, and the others are 13, 15, and 16 years old. All are in great shape as far as interiors and exteriors. One thing that has been consistent with my BMW ownership experience is the manufactured quality of the body. BMWs last a long time and are slow to deteriorate. The 24 year old Z3 is the exception, but it's still not that bad.