[Paladin1]

Apparently Audi, in their self-flagellating wokeness:

For what it’s worth, BMW took a break from defending the grille of the latest 4-Series Coupe to insist it’ll boldly forge into the last century by continuing ICE development.

https://www.audiworld.com/articles/l...n-development/

failed to notice that BMW can both walk and chew gum at the same time:

[Russ103]

If Audi and MB only offer 4cyl turbo with a mix of electric for their S and AMG cars, while BMW continues to make TT V8's that satisfy every red blooded car guy, isn't that a win?

BMW will still have 1, 2, and 3 series cars to appeal to the masses who actually take MPG numbers into consideration. What's wrong with making fire breathing hp monsters for the enthusiast crowd?

For the record, the fastest accelerating car that I have driven (having driven Lambo Huracans, Z06 Vettte, etc) was a Tesla Model S, the highest performance one they make (don't remember the model exactly), and that car was also the most boring, not driver engaged driver experience I've ever had.

Nothing beats the sound of a V8 (or V10!) screaming, with turbos spoiling, as you prepare to shift via paddle, or as the car Gods intended, through a manual gearbox. That's what made the Tesla experience one of the most forgettable cars I've ever driven, despite it being the fastest 0-100mph (it pains me to admit that)

[MystroX5]

[Stoshu]

I’m all for electric and loved my Volt but I have big concerns about charging and electric production infrastructure. Right now the ability to charge on even a short trip between St. Louis and Chicago is slim, now add in 100s of cars and I assume Semis needing to recharge. Without massive charging stations, you could be queued up for hours if not more. A four hour trip could take over eight hours.

I’m very interested how our progressive politicians are going to tackle this problem. Next lets talk about air travel...

[MystroX5]

Originally Posted by Stoshu

I’m all for electric and loved my Volt but I have big concerns about charging and electric production infrastructure. Right now the ability to charge on even a short trip between St. Louis and Chicago is slim, now add in 100s of cars and I assume Semis needing to recharge. Without massive charging stations, you could be queued up for hours if not more. A four hour trip could take over eight hours.

I’m very interested how our progressive politicians are going to tackle this problem. Next lets talk about air travel...

That will be really the proof of all the electric propaganda. Show me a commercial airplane that runs on electric, then that is proof of concept. For a true replacement and real world sales pitch beyond politicians trying to look good and stay in office, we must include the back end charging source of electric and where it comes from and how it itself is produced. Then the disposable long term ecological impact of lithium ion battery packs. Once that happens then the infrastructure to all areas of the country including rural. Policies tend to be pushed through with only urban communities in thought with the majority of the country still rural and dismissed.

[TXSchnee]

Originally Posted by Stoshu

I'm all for electric and loved my Volt but I have big concerns about charging and electric production infrastructure. Right now the ability to charge on even a short trip between St. Louis and Chicago is slim, now add in 100s of cars and I assume Semis needing to recharge. Without massive charging stations, you could be queued up for hours if not more. A four hour trip could take over eight hours.

I'm very interested how our progressive politicians are going to tackle this problem. Next lets talk about air travel...

This is why I think PHEVs should be pushed right now. They are a good solution until infrastructure catches up, but seem to be getting left behind (electric on short commutes, ICE when you need it). I need a vehicle capable of going 1200 miles in 2 days, electric isn't there yet.

[Paladin1]

An observation I made in another forum:

And in the rush to electrify (to which, BTW, I'm not opposed) another factor not frequently mentioned is capacity. Meaning: over 98 percent of cars on the road in the US, right now, are ICE. The 100,000+ fuel stations across the US have an average of 8 pumps available at any time, and if I stop at any of them randomly, I will almost certainly never have to wait to fuel my car, which will take me an average of 15 minutes or less from off the road to on the road again. That's with 98 percent of other cars on the highway using them. The 25,000+ public charging stations across the US have an average of 2-3 available chargers, with less than 2 percent of the cars on the road using them. And a third of them are in California. Fast charging to 80 percent at one of these takes an average of about an hour, and only about 15% of stations have fast charge capability. And it literally took decades to get there. So just double the number of EVs on the road, without increasing charging capacity, and you will almost certainly guarantee you are going to wait in line to charge your car at least an hour. Not counting the time it takes for you to charge. And on a trip over 300 miles, you will almost certainly need to do that twice. That's the condition we find ourselves in, today, current technology and infrastructure. So it's not the ability of manufacturers to design and build EVs, and put them on the road, that's our current limiting factor - it's all of the above. And we're already behind.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by MystroX5

That will be really the proof of all the electric propaganda. Show me a commercial airplane that runs on electric, then that is proof of concept. For a true replacement and real world sales pitch beyond politicians trying to look good and stay in office, we must include the back end charging source of electric and where it comes from and how it itself is produced. Then the disposable long term ecological impact of lithium ion battery packs. Once that happens then the infrastructure to all areas of the country including rural. Policies tend to be pushed through with only urban communities in thought with the majority of the country still rural and dismissed.

Just because planes are not electric does not mean electric cars can't be viable. In urban areas, we will see greater electric car adoption and in rural areas, we will see more trucks and non-electric cars. Horses for courses as they say.

We have a V8 X5 and an electric Tesla MY. Having driven and lived with both, it makes sense for me to have my DD be an MY and X5 for those trips longer than 300 miles (for now). Although we went to the Outerbanks, NC (>500 miles roundtrip) a week ago in our MY and it wasn't a problem.

I see a lot of Teslas where I live. Most people could also easily lease any X5 available, but choose it because they like the experience. There are different types of buyers and choice is better. BMW isn't making electric cars because they are woke. It makes business sense. If anything, BMW has probably the best EV/ICE strategy out there - they are developing great products across both types of powertrains. Tesla's biggest competition IMHO is BMW and BMW could well be the most valuable car company in 3-5 years.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by Paladin1

An observation I made in another forum:

And in the rush to electrify (to which, BTW, I'm not opposed) another factor not frequently mentioned is capacity. Meaning: over 98 percent of cars on the road in the US, right now, are ICE. The 100,000+ fuel stations across the US have an average of 8 pumps available at any time, and if I stop at any of them randomly, I will almost certainly never have to wait to fuel my car, which will take me an average of 15 minutes or less from off the road to on the road again. That's with 98 percent of other cars on the highway using them. The 25,000+ public charging stations across the US have an average of 2-3 available chargers, with less than 2 percent of the cars on the road using them. And a third of them are in California. Fast charging to 80 percent at one of these takes an average of about an hour, and only about 15% of stations have fast charge capability. And it literally took decades to get there. So just double the number of EVs on the road, without increasing charging capacity, and you will almost certainly guarantee you are going to wait in line to charge your car at least an hour. Not counting the time it takes for you to charge. And on a trip over 300 miles, you will almost certainly need to do that twice. That's the condition we find ourselves in, today, current technology and infrastructure. So it's not the ability of manufacturers to design and build EVs, and put them on the road, that's our current limiting factor - it's all of the above. And we're already behind.

What percentage of trips are over 300 miles on a daily basis? If you have a place to charge at home (like I do) it's a non-factor.

[VTENGR]

Originally Posted by Jaffrey

What percentage of trips are over 300 miles on a daily basis? If you have a place to charge at home (like I do) it's a non-factor.

Yeah - that's the key point and the key advantage to electric. Unlike ICE, where you can only get fuel from a pump at a gas station, electric cars can charge anywhere there's electricity. And the vast majority of people will be charging at home while they sleep. Charge stations are only needed for long trips - which comprise a relative minority of auto usage.

[wifesbimmer]

So, there are 100,000+ gas stations across the US. Imagine 50,000+ gas stations converting half of their active pumps into charging units in order to meet the demand. I know Petro Canada has proposed a plan to install charging units in so many of their gas stations across Canada. This will enable drivers to charge their electric vehicles at any point in place while travelling from the west to east.

[Paladin1]

Originally Posted by Jaffrey

What percentage of trips are over 300 miles on a daily basis? If you have a place to charge at home (like I do) it's a non-factor.

If you charge exclusively at home, or don't want the couple of hours wait in the future, you might want to reduce that radius/range to 150 miles, with current technology (most existing EVs less of course). The practical "round trip" range. Just sayin'....

[bandersen]

"Achhhh" - (as I smack my forehead) - 'I shoulda had a V8'...


guess you had to be there

yes...they are going away (and soon!!). Yes...you cannot beat the sound. Hands down. Would love to get one of the last ones, but $95k new - plus taxes - plus another $4-6k in paint/film...

Oh well....there is always the performance exhaust addition for the 40i.

[Chapel Hill]

When do you all think that the X5 M50i goes away?

[nosnoop]

Originally Posted by wifesbimmer

I know Petro Canada has proposed a plan to install charging units in so many of their gas stations across Canada. This will enable drivers to charge their electric vehicles at any point in place while travelling from the west to east.

Actually, their Canada's Electric Highway, a coast-to-coast EV fast charge network, is already online. It was completed in Dec 2019.

[MystroX5]

Originally Posted by Chapel Hill

When do you all think that the X5 M50i goes away?

Not for awhile. BMW has a split personally with their electric side and to the extreme high performance V8TT and even V12TT. They may chip away with the electric side but their halo vehicles will be the big boys for awhile. From a personal application, I do long cross country road trips every year. Last year I did 1200 miles in one day from Florida to PA beating a ice storm in Feb. I typically do 500 miles a day in normal years.

[Stoshu]

Don’t get me wrong, I loved my Volt as a DD, I could go to work and back 90% on all electric (no side trips or going to lunch though) and charge on my Lvl 2 charger at home. What I was saying is, at least in the middle of the US, we are no were close to having the capacity to move even to a 30% electric vehicle society. I’d say almost everyone here has the ability to plug in at home but a large segment of the population don’t own and don’t have that ability. That leaves them to use publicly available charge points and to schedule the time in there day to do so, this segment is most likely less economically advantaged and will have a hard time getting into even a low end (if there is such a thing) all electric vehicle.

I guess the politicians with the “most progressive” programs will expect us to fund vehicles for those that can’t...

[mitch57]

Since the discussion seems to be tilted towards "GREEN" I'll just leave this right here. https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffsb&q=The...ries%3F&ia=web

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by mitch57

Since the discussion seems to be tilted towards "GREEN" I'll just leave this right here. https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffsb&q=The...ries%3F&ia=web

Depends on where the electricity comes from. A lot of people I know, if not most who buy Teslas do so because they are a lot of fun to drive and very good value for money, not just because it is green. We compared an X3 vs. Model Y before buying the Model Y comparing the total cost of ownership, fun, space, and all the usual things. A Tesla is not a Prius.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by Chapel Hill

When do you all think that the X5 M50i goes away?

When people stop buying it since BMW is a business.

In the US it won't happen (for a long time) because it is cheap to lease, gas is cheap and if you are a small business owner you can expense the lease making it even cheaper...

[bandersen]

Originally Posted by Chapel Hill

When do you all think that the X5 M50i goes away?

My money? I bet 2035 +/- 3 years.

[jad03060]

CCS charging puts a hell of a load on the network, especially if you try to charge multiple vehicles at the same time. Think about some of the newest ones out there that can charge at up to 350Kwhr rates. There are ways to help with that:
- onsite battery storage
- flywheels
- maybe a bank of fuel cells feeding a bunch of batteries to help
- don’t charge things that fast!

Newer batteries can handle faster charge rates, but you need that huge store or supply to do it.