[Prince_of_Persia]

Hi everyone,

My wife has a 2012 128i with 50k KM. She is looking to buy an all wheel drive car, and obviously 230i xdrive is the closest to what she has now, but with all wheel drive. We found a demo with 1000km, and the dealer is discounting it well, so we might try to either finance or lease it. Any recommendations or things we need to consider before buying the car? Any issue with buying a demo? How is the reliability of this car? I appreciate any guidance.

[morphomeman]

The car has only 1K km on it, 600 m. It is hard to do much damage in such a short interval. Will it come with a full warranty? Then I would not worry about the demo status. As for reliability, the 2-series has consistently rated as one of the most reliable vehicles around, according to Consumer Reports.
The major factor is price. The car is last year's model, so should have lost 25% of its value. Is the dealer offering that much discount or close to it? Then buy it! It should last as long as the 128.

[Prince_of_Persia]

Originally Posted by morphomeman

The car has only 1K km on it, 600 m. It is hard to do much damage in such a short interval. Will it come with a full warranty? Then I would not worry about the demo status. As for reliability, the 2-series has consistently rated as one of the most reliable vehicles around, according to Consumer Reports.
The major factor is price. The car is last year's model, so should have lost 25% of its value. Is the dealer offering that much discount or close to it? Then buy it! It should last as long as the 128.

Thanks for the reply. The car in-service date is Sep 30th. So it has 3 years and 10 months left from warranty. For some reason, when i test drove the car, it had an error about changing battery. They promised to change the battery before delivering the car. Otherwise the drive was pretty smooth. They are currently offering 16.5% off from MSRP. How much more discount do you think I can get? Is the battery error concerning?

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by Prince_of_Persia

Thanks for the reply. The car in-service date is Sep 30th. So it has 3 years and 10 months left from warranty. For some reason, when i test drove the car, it had an error about changing battery. They promised to change the battery before delivering the car. Otherwise the drive was pretty smooth. They are currently offering 16.5% off from MSRP. How much more discount do you think I can get? Is the battery error concerning?

You may be able to push them to 20% or so discount if it is a 2020 model year car, especially if it has options that make it less than mainstream. I managed 25% discount on a 2007 Z4M in Feb 2008 that had 700km on it.

The battery issue is normal if the car has not been stored on a battery tender if it has been left parked for a few weeks or more at a time, since it arrived from the factory.

[Prince_of_Persia]

Originally Posted by aerobod

You may be able to push them to 20% or so discount if it is a 2020 model year car, especially if it has options that make it less than mainstream. I managed 25% discount on a 2007 Z4M in Feb 2008 that had 700km on it.

The battery issue is normal if the car has not been stored on a battery tender if it has been left parked for a few weeks or more at a time, since it arrived from the factory.

Thanks! Any option you guys feel it is a must have? I attached what this car has.

[Sportstick]

Choice of optional content is quite personal so cannot say what is a "must" for someone we don't know. Your location prompted me to look up how often it snows in Vancouver and the articles show it is so rare that the city doesn't have an adequate supply of snow clearing equipment found in the rest of Canada. Annual snowfall is less than one centimeter!! Therefore, thinking like a city manager, I wonder why pay for and drag around the weight of all wheel drive all year long for that maybe one or two days? I assume you don't invest in dedicated winter tires in Vancouver, so the XDrive won't help her when she needs to safely stop/turn anyway....just a bit of help getting going, but such a rare benefit for that cost and maintenance!

[Prince_of_Persia]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Choice of optional content is quite personal so cannot say what is a "must" for someone we don't know. Your location prompted me to look up how often it snows in Vancouver and the articles show it is so rare that the city doesn't have an adequate supply of snow clearing equipment found in the rest of Canada. Annual snowfall is less than one centimeter!! Therefore, thinking like a city manager, I wonder why pay for and drag around the weight of all wheel drive all year long for that maybe one or two days? I assume you don't invest in dedicated winter tires in Vancouver, so the XDrive won't help her when she needs to safely stop/turn anyway....just a bit of help getting going, but such a rare benefit for that cost and maintenance!

I have an e92 M3, so not great for snow at all. And we usually go to mountains / skiing pretty often, so that is why we are looking an xdrive for her car. She has winter tires for her 128i, so hopefully the same winter tires can fit the new car as well. So xdrive + winter tires should be good for driving to ski resorts.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Prince_of_Persia

I have an e92 M3, so not great for snow at all. And we usually go to mountains / skiing pretty often, so that is why we are looking an xdrive for her car. She has winter tires for her 128i, so hopefully the same winter tires can fit the new car as well. So xdrive + winter tires should be good for driving to ski resorts.

Ah, I get it and that makes good sense. If you are going out of town, luggage, etc, have you also considered XDrive versions of X1, X2, and/or X3 across a range of prices? Some heavy promotions lately on X3.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I assume you don't invest in dedicated winter tires in Vancouver, so the XDrive won't help her when she needs to safely stop/turn anyway....just a bit of help getting going, but such a rare benefit for that cost and maintenance!

If you drive outside of Vancouver, you have to have winter tyres to go east or north through the mountains from 1 Oct to 31 Mar (30 Apr on some high snow fall roads). The temperature also hovers in the single centigrade digits for a lot of the winter. Advisable equipment if not staying in the city all winter.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by aerobod

If you drive outside of Vancouver, you have to have winter tyres to go east or north through the mountains from 1 Oct to 31 Mar (30 Apr on some high snow fall roads). The temperature also hovers in the single centigrade digits for a lot of the winter. Advisable equipment if not staying in the city all winter.

Yes, I see and I mistakenly assumed it was a "city car" purpose and I was corrected. The old addage about "assume" still stands true!

[Prince_of_Persia]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Ah, I get it and that makes good sense. If you are going out of town, luggage, etc, have you also considered XDrive versions of X1, X2, and/or X3 across a range of prices? Some heavy promotions lately on X3.

She doesn't like the look of them, and she prefers sportier cars. And to be honest, I feel 2 series is the only good looking car BMW has in its current lineup.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Prince_of_Persia

She doesn't like the look of them, and she prefers sportier cars. And to be honest, I feel 2 series is the only good looking car BMW has in its current lineup.

OK, just considering all possibly useful alternatives. With a new battery, warranty, and good negotiating, it seems you have found the optimal car! Congrats, good luck, and many happy and safe kilometers of driving ahead!

[Prince_of_Persia]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

OK, just considering all possibly useful alternatives. With a new battery, warranty, and good negotiating, it seems you have found the optimal car! Congrats, good luck, and many happy and safe kilometers of driving ahead!

Thank you! negotiating more today... hoping to get to 20% discount.

[albertw]

Originally Posted by aerobod

If you drive outside of Vancouver, you have to have winter tyres to go east or north through the mountains from 1 Oct to 31 Mar (30 Apr on some high snow fall roads).

This is a common misunderstanding. All season tires (M + S) are legal on all roads in BC during the winter.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by albertw

This is a common misunderstanding. All season tires (M + S) are legal on all roads in BC during the winter.

Legally, yes, they allow M+S marked tyres but the BC Government recommends tyres marked with the 3-peak mountain snow flake, as Drive BC says "Remember, you are responsible for equipping your vehicle properly for the conditions you are driving in.". There are many mountain passes in BC where winter tyres are needed if you want to have control in icy conditions.

Also from ICBC (https://www.icbc.com/brochures/Pages/winter-tires.aspx) "Winter tires and insurance - Driving without winter tires won’t mean you’re automatically at-fault in a crash. However, if you get in a crash where winter tires could have helped, not having them may affect whether, or how much, you are at-fault.".

[Prince_of_Persia]

what do you guys think about this deal?

[Sportstick]

It's shown differently than I am accustomed, so I don't know what the "finance fee" is that is not part of a lease or financing agreement. The documentation fee is absurd. Half a thousand dollars to push a few papers around? It was $80 on my last BMW. What are the "other dealer options"? If they are nonsense such as sealant or fabric/leather protection, I doubt they were applied to a loaner vehicle. I would reject them outright. I know Canada has noteable taxes compared to the US, but "air tax"?? They tax you for the air the car displaces?

[Prince_of_Persia]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

It's shown differently than I am accustomed, so I don't know what the "finance fee" is that is not part of a lease or financing agreement. The documentation fee is absurd. Half a thousand dollars to push a few papers around? It was $80 on my last BMW. What are the "other dealer options"? If they are nonsense such as sealant or fabric/leather protection, I doubt they were applied to a loaner vehicle. I would reject them outright. I know Canada has noteable taxes compared to the US, but "air tax"?? They tax you for the air the car displaces?

other dealer options is for the freight. No way to take that out unfortunately. I tried several times. And if we were paying cash, we did not have to pay the finance fee. But the rate was very low that we decided to finance it (0.24% for 5 years).

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Prince_of_Persia

other dealer options is for the freight. No way to take that out unfortunately. I tried several times. And if we were paying cash, we did not have to pay the finance fee. But the rate was very low that we decided to finance it (0.24% for 5 years).

They may say it's freight, but I don't believe them. That is a dealer-created form, not from BMW of Canada, so it is highly suspect. The destination charge on my most recent BMW was on the window sticker at $995. This is way beyond currency exchange. Between that and the ridiculous documentation fee, I'd let them chase me as I walk out the door. Before leaving, you should ask to see the invoice to see what BMW of Canada actually charges for freight.

[Prince_of_Persia]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

They may say it's freight, but I don't believe them. That is a dealer-created form, not from BMW of Canada, so it is highly suspect. The destination charge on my most recent BMW was on the window sticker at $995. This is way beyond currency exchange. Between that and the ridiculous documentation fee, I'd let them chase me as I walk out the door. Before leaving, you should ask to see the invoice to see what BMW of Canada actually charges for freight.

This was the quote I got from them 2 days ago (I have been negotiating on this car from 2 weeks ago). You can see the same $2495 under Freight.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Prince_of_Persia

This was the quote I got from them 2 days ago (I have been negotiating on this car from 2 weeks ago). You can see the same $2495 under Freight.

I see it. I don't believe it. It's a dealer prepared form, which you can tell as BMW of Canada would not show the discount. They merely are sweetening their own deal to allow for more possible negotiating space, which you have achieved. But the freight is exhorbitant. See an actual BMWNA sticker below for destination in the US for a 2018 vehicl. The differences for 2020 and Canada don't justify that amount. The doc fees remain outrageous.

[aerobod]

Although the standard Freight & PDI rate on bmw.ca for British Columbia is $2,145, dealers can set their own rate, so they have padded that by $350. Besides sales tax, I would look at the total out-the-door price and negotiate on that value, ignoring any specific charges they may add. I normally just set a price point I'm willing to pay and have them adjust their discount as they feel fit and however they want to allocate it. You can't get them to ditch the Air Tax (government mandates environmental fee for anything equipped with air conditioning), and the Advance Disposal fee is probably $5 per tyre government recycling fee that won't change, but every other price is dealer controlled to some degree.

Look at it at the moment as a 17.4% discount if you get rid of the nonsense Lender, Finance and Documentation fees and set Freight/PDI to $2,145

Maybe offer $45,000 out-the-door including taxes, then settle for $46,000 everything included. They can then back-calculate any fees or discounts any way they want.