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Technical Topics B48 4-Cylinder Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications Piggyback tunes - need opinions

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      11-26-2020, 11:45 AM   #1
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Piggyback tunes - need opinions

I've been researching this topic to death and feel like I'm still confused. I'm only interested in the simplest piggybacks here and do understand that a flash might be better...

JB+ (1 sensor connection) vs Dinan Sport (2 sensor connections) vs Racechip S (3 sensor connections?)

They all seem to claim similar results however they connect to different/more/less sensors and I'm confused what makes them different. Is the power delivery different from these piggybacks? Do they all just simply increase boost, if so, why do some have more sensors to plug in?
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      11-26-2020, 12:34 PM   #2
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I bought a Turbo Transformer from these guys - www.turbo-transformer.com, although I believe x-ph on this forum is also a supplier.

I connected to 2 sensors like they have shown here -


They have a free app which was my decision for buying it so I could also watch my boost pressure. Oh and not to mention the price. I adjusted mine to +3 PSI , their default setting is +2 psi because anything more did not increase my peak boost.

I also logged my stfrs with a torq app and it seemed +4 PSI was pushing the STFRs in the +20% range, which is still ok (they didn't look pegged). But my peak boost stayed at 22.6 psi - I figured there is no need to push it. I have had mine since a year or so, I am pretty happy with it.
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      11-26-2020, 12:55 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruczko View Post
I've been researching this topic to death and feel like I'm still confused. I'm only interested in the simplest piggybacks here and do understand that a flash might be better...

JB+ (1 sensor connection) vs Dinan Sport (2 sensor connections) vs Racechip S (3 sensor connections?)

They all seem to claim similar results however they connect to different/more/less sensors and I'm confused what makes them different. Is the power delivery different from these piggybacks? Do they all just simply increase boost, if so, why do some have more sensors to plug in?
So I am not going to be able to answer your question directly but here are some forum contacts that likely can (maybe DM them and let us know what you find out)

@Fuel-It!
Who often posts here regarding JB+ JB4 etc is business partner of Burger (BMS) and I would therefore consider them an expert on that platform

@H433x0n
Is a Dinan software engineer that recently started posting here - it seems he may be more on the flash side of things but I'm sure he could answer your questions (or get you connected with someone that can)

@mike@x-ph.com
Trusted vendor here for years - offers great prices and fast shipping on all three of the platforms you mentioned here so he may be in a good position to discuss one vs the other with you

Hope this helps get you a bit closer to the answers you are after
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      11-26-2020, 08:55 PM   #4
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I had a JB+ and it works. For $200, it is absolute VFM. I cannot comment on Dinan or RC since I have zero experience with those two products. I did have a RC ultimate in my A4 and it worked there. Had no issues while I had it.
Power delivery wasn't bad at all. It was not smooth like stock. There was a noticeable kick when the turbo spooled up. And it ran out of steam at the top end. With the JB4, it's faster and doesn't run out of steam up top.

I have a JB4 now and I love it. Car does really well and it's faster than with the JB+ (I'm running a custom map on my JB4). I search for every little excuse to take the 330i out and it has the most miles amongst all my current cars (thanks to it being tuned). The JB4 also connects to two sensors like in the pic in the post below yours (though I have a third EWG connector as well which as extra). The EWG makes the car smoother. But it made good power even without the connector.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wifes first bimmer View Post
I bought a Turbo Transformer from these guys - www.turbo-transformer.com, although I believe x-ph on this forum is also a supplier.

I connected to 2 sensors like they have shown here -


They have a free app which was my decision for buying it so I could also watch my boost pressure. Oh and not to mention the price. I adjusted mine to +3 PSI , their default setting is +2 psi because anything more did not increase my peak boost.

I also logged my stfrs with a torq app and it seemed +4 PSI was pushing the STFRs in the +20% range, which is still ok (they didn't look pegged). But my peak boost stayed at 22.6 psi - I figured there is no need to push it. I have had mine since a year or so, I am pretty happy with it.
Do you have a dragy? If you do, I'd love to see some numbers (0-60/quarter mile/0-100/62-124) to see how the turbo transformer compares to a JB4
Please say yes!
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      11-26-2020, 09:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chenry View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruczko View Post
I've been researching this topic to death and feel like I'm still confused. I'm only interested in the simplest piggybacks here and do understand that a flash might be better...

JB+ (1 sensor connection) vs Dinan Sport (2 sensor connections) vs Racechip S (3 sensor connections?)

They all seem to claim similar results however they connect to different/more/less sensors and I'm confused what makes them different. Is the power delivery different from these piggybacks? Do they all just simply increase boost, if so, why do some have more sensors to plug in?
So I am not going to be able to answer your question directly but here are some forum contacts that likely can (maybe DM them and let us know what you find out)

@Fuel-It!
Who often posts here regarding JB+ JB4 etc is business partner of Burger (BMS) and I would therefore consider them an expert on that platform

@H433x0n
Is a Dinan software engineer that recently started posting here - it seems he may be more on the flash side of things but I'm sure he could answer your questions (or get you connected with someone that can)

@mike@x-ph.com
Trusted vendor here for years - offers great prices and fast shipping on all three of the platforms you mentioned here so he may be in a good position to discuss one vs the other with you

Hope this helps get you a bit closer to the answers you are after
Thanks chenry - hopefully we can get some of them to chime in here. I found all the piggy backs on the xph website and was hoping to take advantage of the Black Friday sale
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      11-26-2020, 09:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VipinLJ View Post
I had a JB+ and it works. For $200, it is absolute VFM. I cannot comment on Dinan or RC since I have zero experience with those two products. I did have a RC ultimate in my A4 and it worked there. Had no issues while I had it.
Power delivery wasn't bad at all. It was not smooth like stock. There was a noticeable kick when the turbo spooled up. And it ran out of steam at the top end. With the JB4, it's faster and doesn't run out of steam up top.

I have a JB4 now and I love it. Car does really well and it's faster than with the JB+ (I'm running a custom map on my JB4). I search for every little excuse to take the 330i out and it has the most miles amongst all my current cars (thanks to it being tuned). The JB4 also connects to two sensors like in the pic in the post below yours (though I have a third EWG connector as well which as extra). The EWG makes the car smoother. But it made good power even without the connector.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wifes first bimmer View Post
I bought a Turbo Transformer from these guys - www.turbo-transformer.com, although I believe x-ph on this forum is also a supplier.

I connected to 2 sensors like they have shown here -


They have a free app which was my decision for buying it so I could also watch my boost pressure. Oh and not to mention the price. I adjusted mine to +3 PSI , their default setting is +2 psi because anything more did not increase my peak boost.

I also logged my stfrs with a torq app and it seemed +4 PSI was pushing the STFRs in the +20% range, which is still ok (they didn't look pegged). But my peak boost stayed at 22.6 psi - I figured there is no need to push it. I have had mine since a year or so, I am pretty happy with it.
Do you have a dragy? If you do, I'd love to see some numbers (0-60/quarter mile/0-100/62-124) to see how the turbo transformer compares to a JB4
Please say yes!
How would you describe the power delivery of the JB+? My wife drives it too and I don't want her to notice it's even there
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      11-27-2020, 03:34 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruczko View Post
How would you describe the power delivery of the JB+? My wife drives it too and I don't want her to notice it's even there
She might notice it. The stock 330i is very linear (at least, my car is/was). With the JB+ on, it feels like stock till around 2500rpms or so. And then, it pushes you back into the seat after that, when you floor it. If you aren't going WOT or accelerating hard, it isn't that noticeable.
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      11-27-2020, 10:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VipinLJ View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruczko View Post
How would you describe the power delivery of the JB+? My wife drives it too and I don't want her to notice it's even there
She might notice it. The stock 330i is very linear (at least, my car is/was). With the JB+ on, it feels like stock till around 2500rpms or so. And then, it pushes you back into the seat after that, when you floor it. If you aren't going WOT or accelerating hard, it isn't that noticeable.
Any thoughts if the racechip delivery would be smoother? It's on sale now at x-ph
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      11-27-2020, 11:30 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruczko View Post
Any thoughts if the racechip delivery would be smoother? It's on sale now at x-ph
I honestly have no idea. Though I'd personally suggest you get a jb+ or JB4 since they've been working with BMWs for a while now. Plus that is the only product I've used on a BMW and it works well in the 330i.
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      11-27-2020, 11:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VipinLJ View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruczko View Post
Any thoughts if the racechip delivery would be smoother? It's on sale now at x-ph
I honestly have no idea. Though I'd personally suggest you get a jb+ or JB4 since they've been working with BMWs for a while now. Plus that is the only product I've used on a BMW and it works well in the 330i.
You're right. It also seems like the simplest hook up solution.
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      11-28-2020, 12:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruczko View Post
You're right. It also seems like the simplest hook up solution.
You may want to re-think that. If being around longer is of importance to you, then go with DINAN, they have been tuning BMWs since 1979.

Also, for around $200 (I am assuming that is your budget), you may want to compare apples to apples - see what connections each goes to, and what they actually do. My preference for the TT was it goes to 2 sensors and it costs the least, not to mention I liked their app a lot.

Personally, I love my TT, and I have money left for an intake which I didn't get. Plus it worked really well on my last car (Focus ST) and I do think it is the smartest choice you can make if you like your money.

Also, I don't do 1/4 mile runs or 0-60s so I don't look at those metrics. I prefer 20-80(give or take) mph blasts since that is my range of driving Plus, as a tinkerer myself, I like that their app lets me adjust the tune to my liking. I do take the path least travelled - none of the above may be right for you so pick accordingly. I would go with Dinan if you really want to pay more for peace of mind.
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      11-28-2020, 12:50 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VipinLJ View Post
I had a JB+ and it works. For $200, it is absolute VFM. I cannot comment on Dinan or RC since I have zero experience with those two products. I did have a RC ultimate in my A4 and it worked there. Had no issues while I had it.
Power delivery wasn't bad at all. It was not smooth like stock. There was a noticeable kick when the turbo spooled up. And it ran out of steam at the top end. With the JB4, it's faster and doesn't run out of steam up top.

I have a JB4 now and I love it. Car does really well and it's faster than with the JB+ (I'm running a custom map on my JB4). I search for every little excuse to take the 330i out and it has the most miles amongst all my current cars (thanks to it being tuned). The JB4 also connects to two sensors like in the pic in the post below yours (though I have a third EWG connector as well which as extra). The EWG makes the car smoother. But it made good power even without the connector.



Do you have a dragy? If you do, I'd love to see some numbers (0-60/quarter mile/0-100/62-124) to see how the turbo transformer compares to a JB4
Please say yes!
I wish I could say yes, but I don't have draggy. I would also love to see how the two units compare; if you have other ideas I am open - 4th gear pulls perhaps?

I did consider the jb4, a lot ... but I did a lot of homework and finally went with Turbo Transformer because it has the same connections but also has bluetooth capabilities without paying extra.

I honestly do not think a piggyback should cost more than $200, that is just a senseless mark up (in my most humble opinion). Anything at the $400 price tag and you can potentially get a flash tune but that was not a viable option for me (just yet). I think the TT will also give you a full refund if you don't like it - you may want to check with them again since it has been a while since I bought mine.

Apparently mike@x-ph is selling Turbo Transformer chips for $135, standard bluetooth and free app. Get it, you will not regret it.
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      11-28-2020, 12:57 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VipinLJ View Post
I honestly have no idea. Though I'd personally suggest you get a jb+ or JB4 since they've been working with BMWs for a while now. Plus that is the only product I've used on a BMW and it works well in the 330i.
I see you have 3 beautiful turbo cars - for the cost of a jb4 you can tune all 3 with a Turbo Transformer although I can't speak to how well it will work on your Audi cars. I can't imagine piggybacks are very complicated, if it is offered, it probably works wonders on those cars as well (pure speculation now).
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      11-28-2020, 07:34 AM   #14
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I am looking to purchase it for my M6 too. Should I go for it? I already have bm3 OTS
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      11-28-2020, 09:15 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruczko View Post
I've been researching this topic to death and feel like I'm still confused. I'm only interested in the simplest piggybacks here and do understand that a flash might be better...

JB+ (1 sensor connection) vs Dinan Sport (2 sensor connections) vs Racechip S (3 sensor connections?)

They all seem to claim similar results however they connect to different/more/less sensors and I'm confused what makes them different. Is the power delivery different from these piggybacks? Do they all just simply increase boost, if so, why do some have more sensors to plug in?
Hi,
The simplest would be JB+

They all increase boost, performance is the same but features are different.

JB+ is meant to be a simple tune that uses 1 connection only, takes seconds to connect and you are set. You can also increase boost by turning the dial

the turbo transformer is still very simple to install and use, similar to the JB+ but it uses an app to change settings (boost), its also got 3 pre-set maps and 1 custom map

Here is a video we did on the Turbo Transformer that might help

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      11-28-2020, 09:57 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruczko View Post
I've been researching this topic to death and feel like I'm still confused. I'm only interested in the simplest piggybacks here and do understand that a flash might be better...

JB+ (1 sensor connection) vs Dinan Sport (2 sensor connections) vs Racechip S (3 sensor connections?)

They all seem to claim similar results however they connect to different/more/less sensors and I'm confused what makes them different. Is the power delivery different from these piggybacks? Do they all just simply increase boost, if so, why do some have more sensors to plug in?
Hi,
The simplest would be JB+

They all increase boost, performance is the same but features are different.

JB+ is meant to be a simple tune that uses 1 connection only, takes seconds to connect and you are set. You can also increase boost by turning the dial

the turbo transformer is still very simple to install and use, similar to the JB+ but it uses an app to change settings (boost), its also got 3 pre-set maps and 1 custom map

Here is a video we did on the Turbo Transformer that might help

Compared to the Dinan or Racechip? Dinan also has an app.
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      11-28-2020, 11:49 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruczko View Post
Compared to the Dinan or Racechip? Dinan also has an app.
Dinan is similar to Turbo Transformer

Race chip is similar to BMS stage 1

performance is very similar on all three, the only difference is app/no app and features
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      11-28-2020, 12:46 PM   #18
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FYI....

There are 4-5 JB+ for sale in the classifieds right now - If you buy used and keep it you will have saved yourself probably 30-40% if buy it and don't like it you can likely resell for what you bought it for

Alternatively If you're only considering buying new I think mike x-ph offers a money back satisfaction guarantee on the JB+ (maybe other platforms as well - not sure)
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      11-28-2020, 01:14 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wifes first bimmer View Post
I wish I could say yes, but I don't have draggy. I would also love to see how the two units compare; if you have other ideas I am open - 4th gear pulls perhaps?

I did consider the jb4, a lot ... but I did a lot of homework and finally went with Turbo Transformer because it has the same connections but also has bluetooth capabilities without paying extra.

I honestly do not think a piggyback should cost more than $200, that is just a senseless mark up (in my most humble opinion). Anything at the $400 price tag and you can potentially get a flash tune but that was not a viable option for me (just yet). I think the TT will also give you a full refund if you don't like it - you may want to check with them again since it has been a while since I bought mine.

Apparently mike@x-ph is selling Turbo Transformer chips for $135, standard bluetooth and free app. Get it, you will not regret it.
I understand the VFM part. I didn't consider TT because I didn't know it existed. Mike posted about it much after I bought my JB4. And I bought my JB4 used for a really good price. I wouldn't pay $600-700 for a brand new unit since I don't see that as VFM. I paid half that. And I also sold my JB+ for a good amount.

One of my Audis is turbocharged (the A7 is supercharged). Both are stock for now. I'll wait till warranty is over on the A7 and then tune it. No piggyback for that since I'm not sure how it works with a supercharger. For the SQ5, I might get a piggyback since the tunes available aren't totally bug free (read about some people getting CELs at WOT).

And I can do a 20-80. I've done multiple 62-124 runs on my car and with the JB4, best I've gotten is 13.9s. But it has always been between 14.4 and 14.8s (worst was 14.8). That was before my best custom map right now (should be faster now). 0-100 has been in the 11.8-12.2s range (again, should be faster with my current custom map). All dragy verified.

Do you want me to record a video of the speedometer. On a flat road doing 20-80 runs? If so, which gear. I'd love to compare.
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      12-11-2020, 08:33 AM   #20
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So which will be better to get a TT or JB4 performance wise?
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      12-14-2020, 04:03 PM   #21
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Hey guys. I've been researching this quite a bit. Originally wanted to install a Dinan Sport Tuner, but changed my mind and might opt for the TT. Will keep you posted after I'm able to swap this out and possibly get some measurements off a dyno.
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      12-15-2020, 02:21 AM   #22
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Quote:
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Hey guys. I've been researching this quite a bit. Originally wanted to install a Dinan Sport Tuner, but changed my mind and might opt for the TT. Will keep you posted after I'm able to swap this out and possibly get some measurements off a dyno.
Please do keep us updated.
Been looking at the TT but if it does the same thing as a jb+ ill keep mine.
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