10-03-2020, 08:26 PM | #2 |
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10-03-2020, 08:45 PM | #3 | |
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10-04-2020, 06:23 AM | #5 | ||
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Many people have never driven one, and if they haven't driven one they couldn't possibly understand. Even among the NYC enthusiast crowd (many of whom are quite knowledgeable about several generations of various M cars), there are many guys and girls who have never driven a manual. I'm 38. The manual was pretty much f*cking dead when I started driving in 1999. My dad made sure my uncle (who drove a manual) taught me how to drive stick. My point is that many, many people say "I choose AT/DCT because of the performance vs 6MT," when the reality is they never learned to drive stick.
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unfoundnemo1909.00 JCZ51482.50 TCBavarian674.00 JTO245274.50 Mousejunior122.00 JeremyDFW458.00 m3less130.00 Miamiboyca479.50 enginediver64.50 |
10-04-2020, 06:28 PM | #6 | |
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I would turn the situation around: the people wanting a MT have already driven the ZF8HP? |
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10-04-2020, 06:36 PM | #7 | |
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In both cases looking at the F82 and F87, I had far more test drives in the AT than their MT counterparts. But back to your earlier point, the engine is tuned with the AT in mind. But the MT option is just throwing a bone for people like myself that appreciates rowing their own gears, nothing more.
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10-04-2020, 06:40 PM | #8 | |
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10-04-2020, 06:58 PM | #9 | |
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However, none of the M's I drove where MT, maybe they're better? |
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10-04-2020, 07:01 PM | #10 | |
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Only problem is by the time you rev out the gear you're doing 40 mph above the speed limit.
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10-04-2020, 07:04 PM | #11 |
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Another aspect which might proof not to be neglectable is the turbo threshold: underneath 2600rpm, there is a torque abyss. In combo with the MT, this could deliver a frustrating experience during those occasions that you're not burning rubber.
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10-04-2020, 07:08 PM | #12 |
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It's a small price to pay to hit that rev match perfectly going 5th to 3rd at 55 mph and know, deep down and without a doubt, that you are the greatest driver that has ever lived....
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10-04-2020, 07:13 PM | #13 |
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10-04-2020, 07:25 PM | #14 |
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Also, the characterization that BMW's shifter is "rubbery" and clutch travel long is now a cliche. Those characteristics are in fact the defining characteristics of a BMW. And for the most part, the rubbery sensation is not even as prevalent. In fact, back in the day when I had my Mazdaspeed 3 (remember those? Haha), it felt more rubbery.
Now, of course if you compare to a Porsche or a Miata, their shifter / clutch feel are more direct and positive. Now is that "better"? Not necessarily, but I would argue it is what people have been told that this is the gold standard. I quite enjoy driving different cars and experiencing the various nuances that makes each car manufacturer unique. Oh and anecdotally, I have heard a few long time German BMW enthusiasts and I heard they actually prefer this feel, especially during daily driving. You would think if this shifter was indeed terrible, BMW engineers would have changed it years ago when the manual transmissions were found in the regular lineup.
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10-05-2020, 08:41 AM | #15 | |
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When you believe they would have fixed it by now, why did they deplete all the torque underneath 2600rpm? A master attempt of the bavarian engineering staff to make the car better after +40years of experience with turbo fed engines? |
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10-06-2020, 05:54 AM | #16 | |
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10-09-2020, 10:49 AM | #17 |
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For me, it doesn't matter how good the auto is. I enjoy shifting. And it would have to be a VERY bad manual for me to pass. BMWs aren't there. I drive a 6-speed E60. The shifting is nowhere near as nice as my Honda S2000. But I wouldn't have it any other way.
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10-09-2020, 11:55 AM | #18 | |
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People who are still driving manual in 2020 don't need to explain themselves. BMW gets it.
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10-09-2020, 11:58 AM | #19 |
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Because #manual
/end After 10 years driving DCT/Auto, I'm terribly missing the stick. This will 99.9% be the last MT M3 ever made. This is your last chance.
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10-09-2020, 12:32 PM | #20 | |
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I've heard the statement being used again and again for BMWs. I am not too sure that time will come. BMW could be the last brand with a manual and there will be enough sales to satisfy them.
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10-09-2020, 12:35 PM | #21 | ||
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There is virtually no manual transmission from Audi and Mercedes anymore. BMW has already suggested hybrid version for their upcoming M models. I dare to bet the M2 will be the only MT available moving forward.
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10-09-2020, 12:40 PM | #22 |
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"Honestly, the pure engineering answer is, you're much faster with paddles and an automatic transmission," BMW board member and head of development, Klaus Frohlich, told Road and Track at the 2018 Los Angeles Auto Show. "They're very precise and sporty. Especially on the Nurburgring, you are much better in control when you're not taking one hand away [to shift]. I think, in the overall portfolio, manuals will disappear. But I think M4 should be the fortress of manual. So the last manual transmission which will die, it should die in an M4, as late as possible. That's my view."
Link: https://www.motor1.com/news/281877/bmw-m4-last-manual/
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