[gemini.m3]

I know these are hard to predict, but I'm in a situation where I have an M3 competition model with super low miles with a lease expiration of early next year. I had full plans to buyout the car for around 45k (payoff + discount) for a mint m3 zcp w/ 7000 miles. I have an opportunity to grab an allocation for the m2 cs, unfortunately I missed the M3 CS boat.. but the question I'm struggling with is it worth starting over on debt (90k+ vs 45k) for the cs badge, smaller/better track car... I think the possibility of this car becoming the next 1M makes it a gamble worth taking, but what if it turns out like the M3/M4 CS that don't really net any significant difference than the regular competition models?

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by deceptiv.M3

I think the possibility of this car becoming the next 1M makes it a gamble worth taking, but what if it turns out like the M3/M4 CS that don't really net any significant difference than the regular competition models?

I believe that this is the wrong reason to go into debt. If you are super happy with what you have, then I say forget about the CS. If you think you will always regret not getting one, then I say go for the CS. You can always buy another zcp if you don't like the CS, but it may be more difficult to go the other direction.

[F87EVO]

Originally Posted by deceptiv.M3

I know these are hard to predict, but I'm in a situation where I have an M3 competition model with super low miles with a lease expiration of early next year. I had full plans to buyout the car for around 45k (payoff + discount) for a mint m3 zcp w/ 7000 miles. I have an opportunity to grab an allocation for the m2 cs, unfortunately I missed the M3 CS boat.. but the question I'm struggling with is it worth starting over on debt (90k+ vs 45k) for the cs badge, smaller/better track car... I think the possibility of this car becoming the next 1M makes it a gamble worth taking, but what if it turns out like the M3/M4 CS that don't really net any significant difference than the regular competition models?

https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/08/17/b...sic-potential/

[sdhotwn]

Originally Posted by deceptiv.M3

I know these are hard to predict, but I'm in a situation where I have an M3 competition model with super low miles with a lease expiration of early next year. I had full plans to buyout the car for around 45k (payoff + discount) for a mint m3 zcp w/ 7000 miles. I have an opportunity to grab an allocation for the m2 cs, unfortunately I missed the M3 CS boat.. but the question I'm struggling with is it worth starting over on debt (90k+ vs 45k) for the cs badge, smaller/better track car... I think the possibility of this car becoming the next 1M makes it a gamble worth taking, but what if it turns out like the M3/M4 CS that don't really net any significant difference than the regular competition models?

Not sure what you mean on the missing the M3 CS boat... there are a few used ones popping up for sale every once in a while.. and depreciated to low 80s. So if that's the car you wanted originally, then go for it! I would not assume the M2 CS is going to do 1M things on price. Possible sure. Likely - probably not. In the US it has working for it that there is no new M2 really available until 2023 (Dec 2022 SOP) and likely coming out of Mexico, so for a couple years here it may stay hot. However, plenty enough detractors out there, and the M2C close enough in quality and performance that you aren't going to see these things pick up another 20-30k over their MSRP. Maybe hold it, but you aren't missing out on a moneymaker in my view. 15 years from now they could be worth something a little extra if every card falls just right, but I wouldn't want to make that long of a bet with 90k now.

So like Dave said. Buy an M2CS if you WANT an M2CS, not for any other reason.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by deceptiv.M3

I think the possibility of this car becoming the next 1M makes it a gamble worth taking, but what if it turns out like the M3/M4 CS that don't really net any significant difference than the regular competition models?

The 1M costs/cost almost half the M2 CS price: financially more attainable for most car enthusiasts. And that was 2011.

Now it's 2020 and the M2 CS operates in a different price-range. A price-range where enthusiasts usually look into several options (competing car brands) and where only (very) few cars encounter limited depreciation (think for example the 981 Cayman GT4, but still). OK, the M2 CS is The Über M2, the #1 in the F87 pecking order. But with its immodest price-tag for a BMW 2-series, it has some big shoes to fill.

If you're truly lusting for an M2 CS or M3 CS and money is no issue, consider getting it as investment in driving fun. You only live once, some even don't. As a financial investment it will get you IMHO a poor return, as most cars (except if you manage to get a huge discount). Don't gamble on limited car depreciation, except if the money can be missed.

And about halo cars from the past increasing in value or holding well value: wake up in the 2020-2030 decade: emission taxes on the rise, leasing high performance ICE cars getting fiscally discouraged, cities and towns gradually restricting high performance ICE cars, exhaust sounds further muzzled in Europe and COVID-19 shifting the paradigm of priorities for lots of people.

[gemini.m3]

That was a very well informed response, Artemis, clearly see why you're a mod. Thank you.

You're right, I should look at it as the perspective of driving fun.. will I have more fun driving the m2 cs than my m3 competition, maybe.. and is that fun worth 85k .. or should I just jump to the cayman 718. THX

[Mr Pete]

If you can get a Cayman GTS 4.0, that would be the car to get. As long as you don't need a back seat. Nothing like a modern day Porsche manual.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by Mr Pete

If you can get a Cayman GTS 4.0, that would be the car to get. As long as you don't need a back seat. Nothing like a modern day Porsche manual.

Even if you can't get out of second on the road?

[Mr Pete]

Originally Posted by Davil

Even if you can't get out of second on the road?

Sure i can. I press the clutch, shift into third, release clutch. Voila!

[Karmic Man]

There is already a 1M so no, the CS won’t be another 1M

Buy it because you want it

[Davil]

Originally Posted by Mr Pete

Sure i can. I press the clutch, shift into third, release clutch. Voila!

Guess you either haven't heard about the gearing issues then, or like to drive at 140km/h on public roads.

[Fabb]

Originally Posted by Davil

Guess you either haven't heard about the gearing issues then, or like to drive at 140km/h on public roads.

Don't fool yourself. Regardless of the gearing issue, Porsche produces a way better manual trans than BMW does. Guess you haven't heard of million things GTS also does better than CS: mid engine, low center of gravity, proper seating position, etc..

[Davil]

Originally Posted by Fabb

Don't fool yourself. Regardless of the gearing issue, Porsche produces a way better manual trans than BMW does. Guess you haven't heard of million things GTS also does better than CS: mid engine, low center of gravity, proper seating position, etc..

Think you got the wrong forum.

Here you go.

https://rennlist.com

Enjoy the flashing lights.

[mprezme]

I will await to see how things pane out via the lease swap market, if there will be one. If not, then I guess I missed the boat. I have an M2 LCI, 36 months later, bought the car from lease. I LOVE the car. I get into it, still smile, bump my music and enjoy the feel of the drive. I had a wagon STI in 1 year dove it 5000 miles, never enjoyeed it. Sold it on craigslist for loan value. Don't regret it. My LCI will be longest car I had maybe ever.

[hlm2c]

I'm guessing on this thread on the M2 forums, the M2 guys will tell you to go for the M2 CS and on the M3 thread you created on the M3/M4 forums, everyone will tell you to stick with your M3 comp. In the end, other people will give you their opinions, but it'll come down to what's important to you.

[Acetech]

Originally Posted by Fabb

Don't fool yourself. Regardless of the gearing issue, Porsche produces a way better manual trans than BMW does. Guess you haven't heard of million things GTS also does better than CS: mid engine, low center of gravity, proper seating position, etc..

Please clarify exactly why Porsche builds a way better manual transmission than BMW.
And "because P car" is not satisfactory

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Acetech

Please clarify exactly why Porsche builds a way better manual transmission than BMW.
And "because P car" is not satisfactory

Have you ever driven one? BMW has poor shift quality in 6MT in general. Porsche gearboxes feel less rubbery and less notchy at the same time.

[Acetech]

Drive them all the time, master tech 30 years experience worked for Porsche now BMW. Have GT3's in my garage almost weekly, they are nice no doubt but people build them up to be way more than they actually are, imagined quality differences between Porsche and BMW are blown way out of proportion.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Acetech

Drive them all the time, master tech 30 years experience worked for Porsche now BMW. Have GT3's in my garage almost weekly, they are nice no doubt but people build them up to be way more than they actually are, imagined quality differences between Porsche and BMW are blown way out of proportion.

Well, you should know then that there is not really a comparison in shift feel. It’s just the truth. The linkages are completely different and I think this strongly contributes to it and eliminates notchiness and NVH so they can have other parts of the shifter be less sloppy.

You just sound biased. I’m not some Porsche fanatic, but I think denying their manual transmissions are consistently better to use is burying one’s head in the sand.

[Acetech]

Not biased just honest. Just to much P car worship on Bimmerpost. I've been considering a 991 GT3/RS against my M2CS order and nearly flipped to the dark side and may in the future, also liking GT4RS a lot.
I've got a auto solution shifter in my E46 M3, it's more direct and precise that any stock shifter on any car I've driven. Have a RTD shifter in my E36 M3 and think that's the way to go on a track car. I kept the stock shifter on the 1M because it felt fine as is.
The rubber feel is 90% the result of the rubber isolation in the stock shift lever, there are legitimate reasons why BMW still employs this method but if you want more direct precision it's easy to accomplish, not like it's a engineering deficiency.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Acetech

Not biased just honest. Just to much P car worship on Bimmerpost. I've been considering a 991 GT3/RS against my M2CS order and nearly flipped to the dark side and may in the future, also liking GT4RS a lot.
I've got a auto solution shifter in my E46 M3, it's more direct and precise that any stock shifter on any car I've driven. Have a RTD shifter in my E36 M3 and think that's the way to go on a track car. I kept the stock shifter on the 1M because it felt fine as is.
The rubber feel is 90% the result of the rubber isolation in the stock shift lever, there are legitimate reasons why BMW still employs this method but if you want more direct precision it's easy to accomplish, not like it's a engineering deficiency.

The crappy 1>2 shift on pretty much every BMW 6MT is an engineering deficiency, though. They just are not very good compared to 6MT from several companies, not just Porsche.

[burnsniper]

As a 1M and F80 Comp owner I really want to love the CS. However, recent limited edition BMWs have just seem to missed the mark. The spread in performance/uniqueness from Base to Competition to CS just doesn't work out that great. Going from a Base to Competition is kind of like going from a 991s to GTS in that it gets you most of the options you really want for not that much more. Conversely, going from Competition to CS has a substation premium without delivering the specialness (ex. GT3 engine, state delete, etc.).

Furthering the case:
1. Low mileage M3 CS cars going for 60k (60% of sticker).
2. M4 GTS at $70k (~1/2 sticker); while not necessarily praised for their performance, the roll cage, water system, adjustable suspension, and carbon wing are truly unique OEM parts compared to the M performance like CS stuff
3. M3 and M4 CS and GTS models just sitting on lots when new.

I think BMW needs to go the route of offering M4 GT and Z4 GT road versions with giant wings and flares and stripes and ditch their CS approach all together.