[exokiss]

BMW seems to constantly change its recommendations every few years as new partnerships are formed. Let's say today, BMW highly recommends Pennzoil Synthetic Motor Oil and their MANN /OEM Twinpower 5W30 Synthetic. However, there are many things we need to consider while purchasing engine oil. I know it might be a cliché topic, but for those who want to be constantly updated, an extra info won't hurt.

So I wonder now, how the oil brand affects the latest engines' performance? What about the enhanced longevity? BMW has certain approvals, special and prolonged mileage formulas, as well on their blog they talk about adverse effects, if you use the wrong one. Nowadays, we have to think more in-depth about oil specs like (economic) burns, indicators of engine protection, and etc. rather than just go and buy it. It's a bit confusing, because not everyone is a guru-mechanic. So, besides the free oil change that comes with the maintenance plan, how should I form my considerations having in mind what are the latest requirements while selecting motor oil for my BMW?

Thanks.

P.S. Forgot to mention, I'm affiliated nor work for Pennzoil Company.

[jmciver]

The most important spec is the oil weight, followed by the other specs (like Long Life 04 (LL-04), etc). Even when BMW changes oil brands, the oil weight will always stay the same unless there is a mechanical issue with a model that dictates an oil weight change (which does not happen that often). Also, when BMW updates their specs, say going from LL-01 to the newer spec LL-04, the newer spec will supersede the older one and therefore still be perfectly compatible for the engine in the future.

But if you really want to take care of your engine for the long haul, you will want to change the oil at more frequent intervals. The factory oil change interval is a compromise between the engineering and cost (BMW used to go 15k miles between oil changes, but I think the engineers pushed them back to 10k miles - which is a good thing). This is what I do for my M3 and am doing with my X7 as well. BMW recommends a 10k mile oil interval. Even with current synthetic oils, that is a bit long for me. I prefer to do my intervals at half that, every 5k miles - with the dealer doing the included oil changes at 10k intervals (I also don't reset the oil service interval when I do my mid interval oil changes to keep the computer happy).

Admittedly, oil changes every 5k miles is a bit on the excessive side, 7.5k miles would probably be perfect. However, doing the mid interval oil change at 5k miles makes the "math" easier to remember as it meshes well with the factory maintenance schedule. Also, oil changes are cheap, especially if you get a dealer oil change special or DIY the oil change (which is what I do). But if you are really in it for the long haul, don't forget about the rest of the car. Pretty much any fluid in the car should be changed at a more frequent interval than what is "included" with the BMW maintenance plan. And anything that says "lifetime fluid", well it ain't lifetime...

[exokiss]

Now with the approaching cold season my question is, should I stick with 0w20 or change it? While the 0w30 motor oil promises to protect the engine from tear, the 0w20 motor oil does this in a more outstanding and dramatic way. It is known that the 0w20 motor oil is capable of being used in extreme weather conditions, but the 0w30 happens to be more efficient. So, we must have a winner.

[MB21]

Originally Posted by jmciver

The most important spec is the oil weight, followed by the other specs (like Long Life 04 (LL-04), etc). Even when BMW changes oil brands, the oil weight will always stay the same unless there is a mechanical issue with a model that dictates an oil weight change (which does not happen that often). Also, when BMW updates their specs, say going from LL-01 to the newer spec LL-04, the newer spec will supersede the older one and therefore still be perfectly compatible for the engine in the future.

But if you really want to take care of your engine for the long haul, you will want to change the oil at more frequent intervals. The factory oil change interval is a compromise between the engineering and cost (BMW used to go 15k miles between oil changes, but I think the engineers pushed them back to 10k miles - which is a good thing). This is what I do for my M3 and am doing with my X7 as well. BMW recommends a 10k mile oil interval. Even with current synthetic oils, that is a bit long for me. I prefer to do my intervals at half that, every 5k miles - with the dealer doing the included oil changes at 10k intervals (I also don't reset the oil service interval when I do my mid interval oil changes to keep the computer happy).

Admittedly, oil changes every 5k miles is a bit on the excessive side, 7.5k miles would probably be perfect. However, doing the mid interval oil change at 5k miles makes the "math" easier to remember as it meshes well with the factory maintenance schedule. Also, oil changes are cheap, especially if you get a dealer oil change special or DIY the oil change (which is what I do). But if you are really in it for the long haul, don't forget about the rest of the car. Pretty much any fluid in the car should be changed at a more frequent interval than what is "included" with the BMW maintenance plan. And anything that says "lifetime fluid", well it ain't lifetime...

My theory on oil changes interval is a bit different. It is interesting that the same engine in EU and in USA will get different oil change intervals.
One of the possibilities is that in EU there is much smaller fuel consumption, smaller engines and less oil if processed, therefore it would explain why in USA which higher consumption levels is recommended to cha he the oil more frequently, it is more so economy and marketing, but I could be wrong here.

Any thoughts why is the difference?

[MB21]

Originally Posted by exokiss

Now with the approaching cold season my question is, should I stick with 0w20 or change it? While the 0w30 motor oil promises to protect the engine from tear, the 0w20 motor oil does this in a more outstanding and dramatic way. It is known that the 0w20 motor oil is capable of being used in extreme weather conditions, but the 0w30 happens to be more efficient. So, we must have a winner.

It is about viscosity, a bit like with tires, the summers below certain temperature get hard and go thru glassy transition, making them useless below 7C and dangerous, winters stay soft in low temperatures but if driven at high temperatures would wear more quickly.

With oil is about the starting temperature as once the engine is running the temperature is the same, so if you put an oil for very cold temperatures it will be less viscous. I have heated garage so I run same type all year round.

[jmciver]

Originally Posted by MB21

My theory on oil changes interval is a bit different. It is interesting that the same engine in EU and in USA will get different oil change intervals.
One of the possibilities is that in EU there is much smaller fuel consumption, smaller engines and less oil if processed, therefore it would explain why in USA which higher consumption levels is recommended to cha he the oil more frequently, it is more so economy and marketing, but I could be wrong here.

Any thoughts why is the difference?

Unfortunately, a large driver for the "free" oil change interval length is cost. BMW has done their market analysis of cost vs gain in different markets to determine how to maximize their profits while still providing included maintenance (and my understanding is that some markets don't have included maintenance with the purchase price - but I could be wrong). Then they balance their profit margin math with the engineering tolerance math to come up with an acceptable oil change interval. The other engineering variable that contributes to shorter intervals in EU markets is gas quality. From what I have gathered, gas quality in EU is not as "clean burning" as the US (I forget the actual chemical differences), which contributes to a dirtier engine (internally), which leads to shorter oil change interval recommendations.

I hate to use the phrase "they don't make them like they used to" as it is such a cliche. But when it comes to maintenance interval guidance, I believe it is true. The basic trend is that maintenance intervals for different components and fluids are getting longer and more fluids are being considered "lifetime". The reality is car makers don't want cars to last forever - they want you to buy a new car approx every three years. But then, car makers also make A LOT of money making parts for used cars (and sales of CPO vehicles as well). So the maintenance intervals still have value to keep cars decently running after the original new car warranty period has expired.

I am "old school" when it comes to maintenance and always do more than what BMW recommends. It has served me well with my BMW ownership over the years - but there still is a balance of time and money.

[jmciver]

Originally Posted by exokiss

Now with the approaching cold season my question is, should I stick with 0w20 or change it? While the 0w30 motor oil promises to protect the engine from tear, the 0w20 motor oil does this in a more outstanding and dramatic way. It is known that the 0w20 motor oil is capable of being used in extreme weather conditions, but the 0w30 happens to be more efficient. So, we must have a winner.

When it comes to cold weather, the "0" in the 0w20 weight designation is the important number as that is the "cold start" spec for the oil. You typically want thinner oil in cold climates to help lubricate the engine parts during startup (think molasses in January). You notice that in both weight oils, they both have the same cold start spec. Once the engine is at normal operating temp, the second number is the important one. And all properly functioning engines will get up to normal operating temp, regardless of the ambient temp, it just might take a bit longer in cold climates.

The real difference with the second number has to due with fuel economy. The lower the number, the thinner the oil, the less the engine has to "work", the better fuel economy. But there is a trade off as the thinner the oil, the less protection you have from engine wear. Fuel economy is very important to car manufactures for emissions purposes and country regulations - it affects the bottom line. So the car makers try to squeeze every ounce of fuel economy they can get with each engine.

For me, in general I go with the thicker recommended oil because I care more about engine wear and protection than fuel economy. I challenge anyone to find any "practical" fuel savings or difference in fuel economy between the two oil weights. So my recommendation? Stick with the 0w30 for overall better protection that will work year round.

[exokiss]

One curious thing I learnt today was that t "W" on the is used to represent the winter certification, but does not in any way refer to the season, rather, it is used to refer to the winter for the car which basically means the starting condition of the vehicle.

[MB21]

Originally Posted by jmciver

Unfortunately, a large driver for the "free" oil change interval length is cost. BMW has done their market analysis of cost vs gain in different markets to determine how to maximize their profits while still providing included maintenance (and my understanding is that some markets don't have included maintenance with the purchase price - but I could be wrong). Then they balance their profit margin math with the engineering tolerance math to come up with an acceptable oil change interval. The other engineering variable that contributes to shorter intervals in EU markets is gas quality. From what I have gathered, gas quality in EU is not as "clean burning" as the US (I forget the actual chemical differences), which contributes to a dirtier engine (internally), which leads to shorter oil change interval recommendations.

I hate to use the phrase "they don't make them like they used to" as it is such a cliche. But when it comes to maintenance interval guidance, I believe it is true. The basic trend is that maintenance intervals for different components and fluids are getting longer and more fluids are being considered "lifetime". The reality is car makers don't want cars to last forever - they want you to buy a new car approx every three years. But then, car makers also make A LOT of money making parts for used cars (and sales of CPO vehicles as well). So the maintenance intervals still have value to keep cars decently running after the original new car warranty period has expired.

I am "old school" when it comes to maintenance and always do more than what BMW recommends. It has served me well with my BMW ownership over the years - but there still is a balance of time and money.

The intervals in EU are actually much longer they often are 20000-25000km

Also the gasoline there has more octanes than here, typically premium is 98 however there is different measuring method.

EU has much stricter environmental rules than USA therefore I doubt there would be less clean burning allowed

[jmciver]

Originally Posted by MB21

The intervals in EU are actually much longer they often are 20000-25000km

Also the gasoline there has more octanes than here, typically premium is 98 however there is different measuring method.

EU has much stricter environmental rules than USA therefore I doubt there would be less clean burning allowed

Fair enough, I stand corrected on the EU intervals and emissions - and what I seem to remember now that I think of it. However, the reasoning for the different intervals between EU and US is what I stated above: cost (for BMW) and gas quality.....

[MB21]

Originally Posted by jmciver

Fair enough, I stand corrected on the EU intervals and emissions - and what I seem to remember now that I think of it. However, the reasoning for the different intervals between EU and US is what I stated above: cost (for BMW) and gas quality.....

Do you have any article that's test gas quality? Again I have impression that the gas in EU is higher quality, in Germany with those speeds you really tell if you got worst gas.

I know this example is diesel, but TDIs came late to USA as USA had high sulfur contents in diesel and it was damaging engines. I wonder what the real deal with gas is.

Europeans are also very particular about oil selection most will go for well branded like Mobil1, Castrol and so on, here I think people pay less attention to brand, again brand does not mean specs

Finally in EU oil change is based on miles driven, so does not matter if it takes year or two, the actual mileage matters.

[stockguru]

What are you guys doing for the first oil change after taking delivery? I'm definitely not waiting 10k miles for the first change but also don't think want to over do it. I'm about 2k now with just under 2 months of ownership

[jmciver]

Originally Posted by stockguru

What are you guys doing for the first oil change after taking delivery? I'm definitely not waiting 10k miles for the first change but also don't think want to over do it. I'm about 2k now with just under 2 months of ownership

I did a "run in" oil service at 1200 miles. All the M cars and M SAVs have this covered, but non-M cars (including the M50i) do not get this service included. I DIY'ed the oil change in my driveway. After that, I plan to do mid interval oil changes at 5k mile intervals, alternating with BMW covering the oil changes every 10k miles - so my oil will be changed every 5k miles.

[SRL311U]

As an aside, be careful about changing oil too often compared to manufacturer (of the oil) specs. For my old M3, I generally send the oil to Blackstone so that they can monitor it for titanium (an indication of a failing VANOS pump). It is a purely weekend car and I generally run the Castrol TWS 10w60 (old BMW recommended oil).

I would change it religiously every year if I did not put miles on the car. My reports started to note that it was not sufficiently breaking down the oil polymers between changes (given that the oil was spec'ed to work over a longer period) and, therefore, may cause wear. At my last report, I had only put 3,968 miles on the oil and it needed to go longer between changes. Blackstone generally recommended a straight 5,000 to 7,500 on this oil.

I don't know what their recommendation is for the X7 (given the BMW service), but would assume that you do want it to run a full cycle.

[exokiss]

Originally Posted by SRL311U

As an aside, be careful about changing oil too often compared to manufacturer (of the oil) specs. For my old M3, I generally send the oil to Blackstone so that they can monitor it for titanium (an indication of a failing VANOS pump). It is a purely weekend car and I generally run the Castrol TWS 10w60 (old BMW recommended oil).

I would change it religiously every year if I did not put miles on the car. My reports started to note that it was not sufficiently breaking down the oil polymers between changes (given that the oil was spec'ed to work over a longer period) and, therefore, may cause wear. At my last report, I had only put 3,968 miles on the oil and it needed to go longer between changes. Blackstone generally recommended a straight 5,000 to 7,500 on this oil.

I don't know what their recommendation is for the X7 (given the BMW service), but would assume that you do want it to run a full cycle.

So it is Castrol that BMW is usually using on their vehicle?

[MB21]

Originally Posted by stockguru

What are you guys doing for the first oil change after taking delivery? I'm definitely not waiting 10k miles for the first change but also don't think want to over do it. I'm about 2k now with just under 2 months of ownership

1year just did this at 7k miles

[MB21]

Originally Posted by jmciver

I did a "run in" oil service at 1200 miles. All the M cars and M SAVs have this covered, but non-M cars (including the M50i) do not get this service included. I DIY'ed the oil change in my driveway. After that, I plan to do mid interval oil changes at 5k mile intervals, alternating with BMW covering the oil changes every 10k miles - so my oil will be changed every 5k miles.

I will add 2cents as I am in a business that deals with engine production

In the past the engine was assembled and parts had to break in for first 1k as tolerances between components have been not so tight. So was typical to see even metal shavings.

Today the tolerance and precision of engine components is significantly higher, there are special processes to fit piston and bore as well as valve systems, so those engines do not require as much pampering as they used to.

Therefore if this makes the owner feel good to change the oil frequently then it is fine however it is absolutely not making any difference as it used to did 20years ago or so.

[SRL311U]

The new "BMW-branded" oils are made by Shell. The original formulation was Castrol, that made the TWS 10W60 for the M engines. I think the 10W60 replacement is Shell Helix Ultra Racing oil. The only major difference is a higher flash point on the Shell and a better low viscosity on the Castrol: (https://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/threa...-m-oils.96347/).

[jmciver]

Originally Posted by SRL311U

The new "BMW-branded" oils are made by Shell. The original formulation was Castrol, that made the TWS 10W60 for the M engines. I think the 10W60 replacement is Shell Helix Ultra Racing oil. The only major difference is a higher flash point on the Shell and a better low viscosity on the Castrol: (https://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/threa...-m-oils.96347/).

BMW used to have M-specific oils. 10w60 for the E46 M3 and I think the E90 M3 as well. Then 0w40, briefly, for the F80 M3/M4. However, approx halfway thru the production run of the M3/M4 BMW got rid of the 0w40 M-specific oil to consolidate the oil line used across all current models. So for the F-series engines, including the M engines, it is all 5w30 or 0w30 now. For the G-series engines, it is 0w30 and I believe 0w20 now. But I still have some of the BMW M 0w40 that I put in my M3 - but getting harder to find now.

These are what would be available at the dealer. However, other weight oils may still be approved. For example, even though BMW only offers 5w30 or 0w30 for the S55 engine in my M3, 0w40 and 5w40 are still approved for use, even though BMW does not sell those oil weights anymore (but other oil brands do).