[teotwawk]

Today I noticed my right front tire caught a nail and went to Costco for tire repair. Upon taking the lug bolts off and on, the technician pointed out to me that there are 2 bolts (out of 5) does not have the taper washer (see attached photo for reference)

Also when he tries to put it back on, one of the "screw holes" (I am not sure if this is the right term as English is not my native tongue ) had damaged threads therefore the bolt wouldn't screw back in. (see video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqyhejsIFws ) He then cleaned up debris and was able to screw the bolt back in. But the problem now is that it couldn't be torqued to 140 Nm /103 ft-pound.

I have scheduled a service appointment with the dealership where I bought my car tomorrow. But wanted to equip myself with more knowledge before going there so here are my questions:

1. Are those two lug bolts without taper by design? Or it was error in manufacturing process. I checked this thread:
https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=13 and it says the bolt is 5x112 pattern so I assume all 5 bolts are the same?
If was indeed a manufacturer error, what can it damage? The wheel rim? Break rotor? Transmission?

2. Now that the screw doesn't torque to the right amount of force, Do I need to replace the whole rotor? And is this the right part number?Disc Brake Rotor - BMW (34-11-8-054-826)
Also, will BMW warranty cover this?

[M5 TT]

They all should have the taper. Sometimes the taper welds itself to the wheel but never seen it rip the taper off the bolt before.

Damage on the bolts. Is the taper still in the wheel??

[kzg1969]

the first time i took my wheels off, 2 or 3 of the bolts left the taper in the alloy. I had to knock them out then drive them back onto the wheel bolt. A couple others came half way off and got stuck on that lip.

every other time i took the wheel off, they were fine.

[suby01]

Originally Posted by kzg1969

the first time i took my wheels off, 2 or 3 of the bolts left the taper in the alloy. I had to knock them out then drive them back onto the wheel bolt. A couple others came half way off and got stuck on that lip.

every other time i took the wheel off, they were fine.

Thats exactly what it is. The bolts should have the taper, but they look identical so either fell off in the shop or are stuck in your wheels. Either way you should make sure that you have all lugs with tapers on all wheels.

[forza1976]

Just get to a bmw dealer and get a few new bolts.

[Transfer]

See also here:
https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1711680

[teotwawk]

So I am at the dealership/shop now. They are blaming Costco for damaging the thread on the rotor hub. But since its a new car (I got it from them last week) they are will to fix it by re-thread the rotor hub for free.

Now, here is my question, will this re-thread damage the structural integrity of the rotor/rim/wheel?

'Cause its an M-Car and after break-in period I will be driving like one so I would like to avoid any potential flaw on the car that could potentially lead to future problem.

Or I should try to contact Costco and have them pay for replacing break rotor?

My fear is when I do that, BMW and Costco is going start blaming each other and I will just be stuck in the middle and going nowhere with this problem.

Any advice guys?

[SWOT1]

Apparently a pretty common problem. On day one with my new X3MC, I drove straight to the tire shop (to upgrade to the 265/295 setup) and one of my bolts was missing the taper. Dealership replaced.

[teotwawk]

Originally Posted by SWOT1

Apparently a pretty common problem. On day one with my new X3MC, I drove straight to the tire shop (to upgrade to the 265/295 setup) and one of my bolts was missing the taper. Dealership replaced.

Thanks for the info, I am having them check all 4 tires on my X3MC now (just to be safe).

If one continue driving without taper, what could be damaged?

[SWOT1]

Originally Posted by teotwawk

Thanks for the info, I am having them check all 4 tires on my X3MC now (just to be safe).

If one continue driving without taper, what could be damaged?

I drove several hundred miles with just the 4 bolts, before I could get it replaced... no problem. (though I wouldn't suggest driving on only 3 on any one wheel.)

[pluckydks]

Originally Posted by teotwawk

So I am at the dealership/shop now. They are blaming Costco for damaging the thread on the rotor hub. But since its a new car (I got it from them last week) they are will to fix it by re-thread the rotor hub for free.

Now, here is my question, will this re-thread damage the structural integrity of the rotor/rim/wheel?

'Cause its an M-Car and after break-in period I will be driving like one so I would like to avoid any potential flaw on the car that could potentially lead to future problem.

Or I should try to contact Costco and have them pay for replacing break rotor?

My fear is when I do that, BMW and Costco is going start blaming each other and I will just be stuck in the middle and going nowhere with this problem.

Any advice guys?

Rethreading it will be fine.

[Will Pwr]

Originally Posted by teotwawk

So I am at the dealership/shop now. They are blaming Costco for damaging the thread on the rotor hub. But since its a new car (I got it from them last week) they are will to fix it by re-thread the rotor hub for free.

Now, here is my question, will this re-thread damage the structural integrity of the rotor/rim/wheel?

'Cause its an M-Car and after break-in period I will be driving like one so I would like to avoid any potential flaw on the car that could potentially lead to future problem.

Or I should try to contact Costco and have them pay for replacing break rotor?

My fear is when I do that, BMW and Costco is going start blaming each other and I will just be stuck in the middle and going nowhere with this problem.

Any advice guys?

To be honest, they are correct in that its Costco's responsibility, but its good that they are still rethreading the hub for you out of good faith. Its the responsibility of the tech at Costco to notice the missing taper before threading it back on when putting your wheel back on...especially since 2 of the 5 where missing them. There is very unlikely chance that your car was missing them from the factory, possibly but very unlikely given that its two of them the same wheel. From from the pics that you posted, it looks like they tapers dislodged recently. I personally am not pointing fingers at anyone specific, but if you were missing two tapers from the factory, you might notice it at speed and I doubt the markings on the lugs would be that "fresh".

Rethreading the hub has no direct impact with you wheel, tire or brake rotor. Rethreading it shouldn't have any structural issues on the assumption that its rethread able to begin with. If its isn't they would most likely replace it...but that would be the case if its really cross threaded...again unlikely unless the other tech just was super careless and impacted the lug on with no regard.

Again, I'm not placing blame on any side specifically, but giving you my point of view from my experience.

At the end of the day, if BMW is willing to rethread the hub for you out of good will, and I assume assume give you 2 new lug bolts, you will be made whole and in good shape since its the dealership doing the work which would fall in the line with anything related to warranties or what not.

[j080808]

Originally Posted by teotwawk

If one continue driving without taper, what could be damaged?

The wheels are hubcentric, meaning the weight is carried on the hub and the lugs hold the wheel in place, so potentially no issue.

IMO, impact guns exacerbated the issue with those effected. Chances are, the tapers on the lugs (manufactured, inspected and installed at the factory) were properly in place, and the tire shops weren’t aware of this anomaly. The tapered floating design isn’t common, and as such wouldn’t normally be expected unless looking for it, but the tapered part gets lodged in place as others’ have mentioned.

Not being able to torque it down, may be a result of it bottoming down.

My experience with this is on multiple vehicles (BMW, Porsche) with these floating conical lugs and using a torque wrench to both loosen and tighten the lugs.

[r33_RGSport]

I don't understand why whoever took off the lug bolts never checked the wheels.
If the washer came off from the lug bolts, it is in no way the car will roll off the factory assembly line.

It happened to me a few times. And guess what, the washers are there, stuck on the wheel.

My only thought that this can happened is when the tire shop tech is using a high torqued (uncalibrated) impact gun to remove the lug bolts.

I used Snap-On electric impact gun. It doesn't put out as much torque as air impact gun with uncontrolled air pressure. (Which I noticed a lot of shops like Costco, Discount Tires, and others have).
I normally loosen the 2nd to last lug bolt until washer snap loose from the wheel and slightly retighten it, then loosen the last lug bolt before I go back to the 2nd to last.

It is not only to avoid the washer to be stuck on the wheel, but also to avoid the wheel to drop on my hand with the lug bolt stuck to the wheel.
It dropped on my hand once. Jammed my fingers to the rotor. Not fun.

[kzg1969]

fear of stating the obvious....you have checked all the other wheels?

[spta97]

Originally Posted by j080808

The wheels are hubcentric, meaning the weight is carried on the hub and the lugs hold the wheel in place, so potentially no issue.

IMO, impact guns exacerbated the issue with those effected. Chances are, the tapers on the lugs (manufactured, inspected and installed at the factory) were properly in place, and the tire shops weren’t aware of this anomaly. The tapered floating design isn’t common, and as such wouldn’t normally be expected unless looking for it, but the tapered part gets lodged in place as others’ have mentioned.

Not being able to torque it down, may be a result of it bottoming down.

My experience with this is on multiple vehicles (BMW, Porsche) with these floating conical lugs and using a torque wrench to both loosen and tighten the lugs.

I've got an old Craftsman 19.2v impact gun as well as a pneumatic gun (which I rarely use).

On my X3MC, I loosen the lugs by hand with a breaker bar then use a torque wrench to put them back on.

The impact gun works well but I find it can damage the finish on the lugs.

As a side note, I read in the instructions for my torque wrench it should not be use to remove. Also, it should not be stored with a torque set - rather should be set to zero.

[cfedsas]

I assume that you touched the wheels while driving, which could damage the bolts and washers. I don't see any other reasons for such a breakdown. Strangely, other car mechanics did not notice such a defect because it is very striking. You should also check the condition of your car from time to time.
I often buy bolts and nuts on https://www.scrooz.com.au/nuts-and-bolts/; you may also find suitable models. When replacing, make sure that you have screwed everything firmly and securely; otherwise, the wheels will likely fly off and lose control.
By the way, a large percentage of accidents occur due to the mechanic's negligence when tightening the bolts.

[STi from DSM]

I don't understand why people go to Costco for their $80k + vehicles.

[YolkyPalky]

Originally Posted by STi from DSM

I don't understand why people go to Costco for their $80k + vehicles.

Is $80k a lot to you?

[hooligan_G01]

Originally Posted by STi from DSM

I don't understand why people go to Costco for their $80k + vehicles.

You're talking about mounting/balancing tires, not rebuilding a motor.

Costco pricing on Michelin tires is REALLY hard to beat, in my experience.

[spta97]

Originally Posted by hooligan_G01

You're talking about mounting/balancing tires, not rebuilding a motor.

Costco pricing on Michelin tires is REALLY hard to beat, in my experience.

The only problem is they force you to have them mounted and balanced there. I recently had tires put on my truck and they scratched all 4 wheels.

I would never take my bmw to them - or my truck ever again.

The amount of money you save is offset by taking a risk.

I’ll buy anything else at Costco but no longer will use their tire shop.

[hooligan_G01]

Originally Posted by spta97

The only problem is they force you to have them mounted and balanced there. I recently had tires put on my truck and they scratched all 4 wheels.

I would never take my bmw to them - or my truck ever again.

The amount of money you save is offset by taking a risk.

I’ll buy anything else at Costco but no longer will use their tire shop.

While that's fair, I'm sure we could find similar stories about Discount Tire, TireRack recommended installers, and even BMW dealerships.

Your 2nd paragraph is the important one - you'd never take any vehicle there again. The fact that it's a BMW doesn't play a factor.