[The Automotive Enthusiast]

I'm going to be honest, I can't tell you how happy I am to have grown up in the days of the e36. I got to experience what a raw BMW felt like. Oh, and they had the classic Hoffmeister kink. Something that people will soon forget as BMW seems to be phasing it out of their designs all together.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by The Automotive Enthusiast

I'm going to be honest, I can't tell you how happy I am to have grown up in the days of the e36. I got to experience what a raw BMW felt like. Oh, and they had the classic Hoffmeister kink. Something that people will soon forget as BMW seems to be phasing it out of their designs all together.

As sad as I am about the state of BMW over the past decade, I'm also happy I at least experienced the good days. I'm in my late 20s so while I missed out on the E36s of the world, I still grew up with a lot of good BMWs!

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

As sad as I am about the state of BMW over the past decade, I'm also happy I at least experienced the good days. I'm in my late 20s so while I missed out on the E36s of the world, I still grew up with a lot of good BMWs!

Actually, you’re living the best days of BMW. Until approximately a decade ago, BMW were unreliable and unsafe cars with boy racer kind of feel. Then they progressively got better and now they’re better than they’ve ever been.Things that didn’t exist before like: comfort, reliability, security, efficiency, technology comes as standard now in addition to much better performance.

https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/bmw/3-series/15459





E36 is pretty much a moving casket, very unreliable, very bad in terms of build quality and materials, very unstable and doesn’t have 50-50 weight distribution that started with E46. So unless you have nostalgic feelings, E36 is a tractor compared to G20. And E39 M5 is less aggressive and slower than my 540i and floatier and softer than a 530i without an M sport package. If millennial sees all the nonsensical praise for old cars here then goes ahead and drives one, he would be severely disappointed.(Maybe except E46)

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

now they're better than they've ever been.

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

Actually, you’re living the best days of BMW. Until approximately a decade ago, BMW were unreliable and unsafe cars with boy racer kind of feel. Then they progressively got better and now they’re better than they’ve ever been.Things that didn’t exist before like: comfort, reliability, security, efficiency, technology comes as standard now in addition to much better performance.

Better than ever is both subjective and objective though.

Objectively better, sure. For all the things you mentioned.

Subjectively though, I'm not so sure. Especially M models had just the right balance of luxury and sport. We're to a point now, IMHO that have tipped more for luxury than sport. What do I base that one? They're bigger, heavier, more expensive than ever before.

The E9X generation was when the scales began to tip in the wrong direction. The F8X generation tipped it back a bit in some areas and further buried the needle in the other direction.

The G8X continues to bury that needle. Bigger, heavier, more tech. I have no doubt though the G8X will beat the F8X in performance metrics. Just like every generation did to the previous.

Faster around the 'Ring isn't the end all, be all metric to what makes a BMW a BMW. From the way the G8X looks, too many sacrifices were made whether that be made in the name of performance, being "bold", or just trying to be different that they managed to kill what made an M car in the first place.

An M car, especially the M3, was never about being the loudest looking car on the road. It looked like almost every other 2-door or sedan with some minor aesthetic changes so that those who knew understood they weren't just looking at another grocery getter.

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

E36 is pretty much a moving casket, very unreliable, very bad in terms of build quality and materials, very unstable and doesn’t have 50-50 weight distribution that started with E46. So unless you have nostalgic feelings, E36 is a tractor compared to G20. And E39 M5 is less aggressive and slower than my 540i and floatier and softer than a 530i without an M sport package. If millennial sees all the nonsensical praise for old cars here then goes ahead and drives one, he would be severely disappointed.(Maybe except E46)

And I would rather have an E39 M5 than your 540i. I could care less if you blew by me. Actually, the E39 M5 is what got me hooked on M cars long ago.

It's not all about being the fastest. There was something different about M cars back then. That's not being nostalgic, it's the truth.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Jockey

Better than ever is both subjective and objective though.

Objectively better, sure. For all the things you mentioned.

Subjectively though, I'm not so sure. Especially M models had just the right balance of luxury and sport. We're to a point now, IMHO that have tipped more for luxury than sport. What do I base that one? They're bigger, heavier, more expensive than ever before.

The E9X generation was when the scales began to tip in the wrong direction. The F8X generation tipped it back a bit in some areas and further buried the needle in the other direction.

The G8X continues to bury that needle. Bigger, heavier, more tech. I have no doubt though the G8X will beat the F8X in performance metrics. Just like every generation did to the previous.

Faster around the 'Ring isn't the end all, be all metric to what makes a BMW a BMW. From the way the G8X looks, too many sacrifices were made whether that be made in the name of performance, being "bold", or just trying to be different that they managed to kill what made an M car in the first place.

An M car, especially the M3, was never about being the loudest looking car on the road. It looked like almost every other 2-door or sedan with some minor aesthetic changes so that those who knew understood they weren't just looking at another grocery getter.



And I would rather have an E39 M5 than your 540i. I could care less if you blew by me. Actually, the E39 M5 is what got me hooked on M cars long ago.

It's not all about being the fastest. There was something different about M cars back then. That's not being nostalgic, it's the truth.

Could not have said it better myself.

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

Actually, you're living the best days of BMW. Until approximately a decade ago, BMW were unreliable and unsafe cars with boy racer kind of feel. Then they progressively got better and now they're better than they've ever been.Things that didn't exist before like: comfort, reliability, security, efficiency, technology comes as standard now in addition to much better performance.

https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/bmw/3-series/15459

E36 is pretty much a moving casket, very unreliable, very bad in terms of build quality and materials, very unstable and doesn't have 50-50 weight distribution that started with E46. So unless you have nostalgic feelings, E36 is a tractor compared to G20. And E39 M5 is less aggressive and slower than my 540i and floatier and softer than a 530i without an M sport package. If millennial sees all the nonsensical praise for old cars here then goes ahead and drives one, he would be severely disappointed.(Maybe except E46)

Look at the disturbing A-pillar deformation and roof cave in on that old E36.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

Actually, you’re living the best days of BMW. Until approximately a decade ago, BMW were unreliable and unsafe cars with boy racer kind of feel. Then they progressively got better and now they’re better than they’ve ever been.Things that didn’t exist before like: comfort, reliability, security, efficiency, technology comes as standard now in addition to much better performance.

E36 is pretty much a moving casket, very unreliable, very bad in terms of build quality and materials, very unstable and doesn’t have 50-50 weight distribution that started with E46. So unless you have nostalgic feelings, E36 is a tractor compared to G20. And E39 M5 is less aggressive and slower than my 540i and floatier and softer than a 530i without an M sport package. If millennial sees all the nonsensical praise for old cars here then goes ahead and drives one, he would be severely disappointed.(Maybe except E46)

I disagree. Yes cars now are objectively better than ever when it comes to build quality, reliability, fuel economy, performance, ride quality, tech, etc.

But absolutely nobody would argue the F/G chassis cars are more driver-focused than their predecessors. You can't replace the classic BMW formula of Inline 6, tight communicative steering, RWD bias architecture, and manual option. BMW makes some of the best vehicles in its respective segments, but their distinguishing character is all but gone. Drive them side-by-side with comparable Audis and Mercs and there's little difference.

[stein_325i]

I would also add that electronics of modern cars have actually hampered long term reliability as well and are likely more difficult to work on and expensive to repair. New Honda's and Toyota's aren't likely to last as long as the older models.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I disagree. Yes cars now are objectively better than ever when it comes to build quality, reliability, fuel economy, performance, ride quality, tech, etc.

But absolutely nobody would argue the F/G chassis cars are more driver-focused than their predecessors. You can't replace the classic BMW formula of Inline 6, tight communicative steering, RWD bias architecture, and manual option. BMW makes some of the best vehicles in its respective segments, but their distinguishing character is all but gone. Drive them side-by-side with comparable Audis and Mercs and there's little difference.

BMW's manual's have always felt very rubbery to me but I've just chalked it up as what makes a BMW a BMW. Also, anyone who says the F/G chassis cars are more driver focused is most likely a Zoomer with no experience driving older BMW models.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

Actually, you’re living the best days of BMW. Until approximately a decade ago, BMW were unreliable and unsafe cars with boy racer kind of feel. Then they progressively got better and now they’re better than they’ve ever been.Things that didn’t exist before like: comfort, reliability, security, efficiency, technology comes as standard now in addition to much better performance.

https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/bmw/3-series/15459

E36 is pretty much a moving casket, very unreliable, very bad in terms of build quality and materials, very unstable and doesn’t have 50-50 weight distribution that started with E46. So unless you have nostalgic feelings, E36 is a tractor compared to G20. And E39 M5 is less aggressive and slower than my 540i and floatier and softer than a 530i without an M sport package. If millennial sees all the nonsensical praise for old cars here then goes ahead and drives one, he would be severely disappointed.(Maybe except E46)

The newer generation of BMWs are safer and very mainstream friendly. They suck at being a BMW. BMW's of yore were buttoned down and were lauded for how they brought excitement to the road. They mocked Audi and Mercedes for offering front wheel drive cars. Unless you drive one for an extended period of time, you won't understand how exciting they were at some point.

[gblansten]

Right now if you are driving a 2020 M5.

[solstice]

For the M3, E30 and E90 of different reasons. Peak of lightweight agility and peak of NA engines.

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by jstein55

I would also add that electronics of modern cars have actually hampered long term reliability as well and are likely more difficult to work on and expensive to repair. New Honda's and Toyota's aren't likely to last as long as the older models.

That may be it but those same electronics have made powertrains infinitely more reliable. Go figure?

[Aaaaaaaaa]

The best days are never in the present, future, or recent past it seems. Something about E30 M3 blah blah blah

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by solstice

For the M3, E30 and E90 of different reasons. Peak of lightweight agility and peak of NA engines.

Still remember the criticism of the N52 around these parts...

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

Still remember the criticism of the N52 around these parts...

Solstice is referring to M3's not the 325/328/330.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by The Automotive Enthusiast

I'm going to be honest, I can't tell you how happy I am to have grown up in the days of the e36. I got to experience what a raw BMW felt like. Oh, and they had the classic Hoffmeister kink. Something that people will soon forget as BMW seems to be phasing it out of their designs all together.

Clearly it is the E46 M3 era when you had the S54 with 100+hp/L with tech and performance well above its rivals.

Nowadays we have to slap insane grilles on the car for differentiation. But in the early 2000s a BMW M car was the sport sedan to get.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by stefan

Clearly it is the E46 M3 era when you had the S54 with 100+hp/L with tech and performance well above its rivals.

Nowadays we have to slap insane grilles on the car for differentiation. But in the early 2000s a BMW M car was the sport sedan to get.

Honestly, when BMW stopped the bespoke engine for the M cars with the F8x,I died on the inside. The heart of the beast was now based on a regular series car with reinforced internals and a couple minor tweaks here and there. I will never forget my e92 and the satisfaction of 8,200 RPM or the metallic scream of the e46 M3's six cylinder,

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by The Automotive Enthusiast

Honestly, when BMW stopped the bespoke engine for the M cars with the F8x,I died on the inside. The heart of the beast was now based on a regular series car with reinforced internals and a couple minor tweaks here and there. I will never forget my e92 and the satisfaction of 8,200 RPM or the metallic scream of the e46 M3's six cylinder,

Agree, especially in the M5, getting a bit tired of seeing BMW use the same Twin-Turbo V8 now in two generations of M5 and three X5M's and M needs to catch up to AMG with the exhausts.

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by jstein55

Agree, especially in the M5, getting a bit tired of seeing BMW use the same Twin-Turbo V8 now in two generations of M5 and three X5M's and M needs to catch up to AMG with the exhausts.

To be honest the F90 may well be the last combustion engined M5. Enjoy that Twin turbo V8 while you can. Next gen will be fully BEV.

Last year BMW allowed the press to tinker around with this G30 BEV prototype which is far more powerful/Fast as than F90 M5.

710HP and 884 pounds feet of torque...

https://www.bmwblog.com/2019/06/28/d...e-next-bmw-m5/

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

To be honest the F90 may well be the last combustion engined M5. Enjoy that Twin turbo V8 while you can. Next gen will be fully BEV.

Last year BMW allowed the press to tinker around with this G30 BEV prototype which is as powerful/Fast as the F90 M5.


https://www.bmwblog.com/2019/06/28/d...e-next-bmw-m5/

I'd actually love to see an M5 with a smaller engine, perhaps an inline-6, just like the E28 and E34. BMW V8's just don't do it for me, their inline-6 is their bread and butter for good reason, for V8's I'd got to AMG.