Fuel Pump Failure...I have to pay????

hayjoelb · 09-09-2008, 03:26 PM

2008 e90 335i w/ 11k miles. My car recently started to show symptoms of the faulty fuel pump (long cranks, limp mode). I took the car into the dealership to have the investigate the issue and they verified that indeed, I had a bad fuel pump.

Now here's the catch. BMW refused to replace the pump because it had an ethanol reading of 15% (the maximum allow is 10%). I just fill the fk'ing tank up with 93 octane...how the am I suppose to know what what additional additives are in the fuel? And even if I did, how am I suppose to know the maximum is 10%?

BMW of America (not the dealership) has REFUSED to replace my fuel pump...and get this, has stated that I need to PAY to have it replaced.

w t f? I've called bmw of america myself and tried to raise some hell, but nothing.

Has anyone else encountered this?

Gig103 · 09-09-2008, 03:29 PM

The manual does state not to use more than 10% ethanol, and a lot (all around me) stations put 10% into the fuel... But I would think it's difficult to get e85 by mistake, since its bad for most cars. I'd go back to your gas station and raise hell for them having the wrong amount of ethanol in it.

galahad05 · 09-09-2008, 03:31 PM

lawyer up

clivem2 · 09-09-2008, 03:32 PM

It's interesting to note that my European manual also states 95 octane fuel as the min acceptable. I wonder if the US and European maps are very different.

Does ethanol destroy the seals in the fuel pump?

hayjoelb · 09-09-2008, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clivem2

Does ethanol destroy the seals in the fuel pump?

Apparently so....

tintivilus · 09-09-2008, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clivem2

It's interesting to note that my European manual also states 95 octane fuel as the min acceptable. I wonder if the US and European maps are very different.

No, the octane scales are different.

ianthegreat · 09-09-2008, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galahad05

lawyer up

agreed. that is hardly your fault.

Gig103 · 09-09-2008, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clivem2

It's interesting to note that my European manual also states 95 octane fuel as the min acceptable. I wonder if the US and European maps are very different.

US Octane is based on the "AKI" rating
European Octane is based on the "RON" rating.

Staszek · 09-09-2008, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clivem2

It's interesting to note that my European manual also states 95 octane fuel as the min acceptable. I wonder if the US and European maps are very different.

Does ethanol destroy the seals in the fuel pump?

Octane scales are different between the US and Europe

( RON Octane Rating x 0.95 = AKI Octane Rating )
98 RON Octane x 0.95 = 93.1 AKI Octane (US measure)
100 RON Octane x 0.95 = 95 AKI Octane (US measure)
95.5 RON Octane = 91 AKI Octane (US measure)

As for the fuel pump I would go to the gas station you bought the last tank of gas from and fill it up a gallon jug and have it tested.

I would also lawyer up if BMW refuses to pay.

chazzz · 09-09-2008, 04:35 PM

Get a Mercedes, it can run on E85 gasoline and you wouldn't have to worry if it's a regular gasoline or E85.

BMW can't run on E85 fuel.

Turkishexpress · 09-09-2008, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gig103

US Octane is based on the "AKI" rating
European Octane is based on the "RON" rating.

+1

Meanwhile, get some samples from the gas station you last visited if you can to see if you can hold them liable for your warranty being voided. You can also use this evidence against BMW if they are wrong by getting the gas independently checked for a minimal fee from a reputable labarotory. The extra methanol has been known to corrode lines and sometimes the seals in the fuel pump but for BMW to try to use this as an excuse is also a bit ridicilous especially knowing that 335s have this issue. I would also request SCIENTIFIC PROOF of how they determined that the fuel was detected to have 15% ethanol. I guarantee you that they do not have the precision equipment that could determine the exact amount of ethanol in any given fuel without a certain percentage of error. Good luck.

SkipSauls · 09-09-2008, 04:44 PM

The OP states that they claim it had 15% ethanol, which would be E15, not E85. E15 doesn't seem to be very common. I would think that the station/vendor/etc. would have to provide notice of the ethanol content, but I don't know for sure.

From Wikipedia: "E15 contains 15% ethanol and 85% gasoline. This is generally the greatest ratio of ethanol to gas that is recommended by auto manufacturers that sell vehicles in the United States, though it is possible that many vehicles can handle higher mixtures without trouble."

I guess BMW disagrees, but as others have said, they had better make that very clear in the manual, and it probably should say so on the fuel-filler flap. I'd try to make the case to the dealer and BMW NA before going the lawyer route.

JTBurn · 09-09-2008, 04:45 PM

Gee, it's a 335. I thought all their fuel pumps went bad.

Year's_End · 09-09-2008, 04:48 PM

Wow dude, fuck that. Get a lawyer. That's completely unreasonable.

hayjoelb · 09-09-2008, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galahad05

lawyer up

Or at least threaten that I'm going to get one

Considering the cars a lease, I wonder if there's a way to get out of the lease contract due to this situation. I've also considered meeting the dealership in the middle...I pay for the part and they replace/install it for free.

I'm not sure I want to head down the path of proving to them that the gas doesn't have 15% ethanol...because really, it doesn't matter...BMW isn't holding up to their warranty "claim". Also, what happens if I go through all this trouble testing the source gas and it does end up having 15%? I'm still fked.

omerfar23 · 09-09-2008, 04:56 PM

WTF..dude since they are one refusing service on your car its their job to prove ethanol reading of 15% precisely. You shouldn't have to anything. If they do give proper paperwork and are able to prove the "15% ethanol reading" then get a lawyer to fight but odds are they will determine that it will cost them less to get you a new fuel pump than to do all the paperwork. Good luck bro. I am really interested in this because I have the same intermittently (long cranks and etc..) and I was told by the dealership it had to something with the kind of fuel i was using. I been getting 93 octane from local branded gas station.

exidisjon · 09-09-2008, 05:02 PM

Get a lawyer and either take actions against the gas station or the BMW.
You never know you might wound up with a M5 instead. =)

Good luck dealers are assholes sometimes.

John 070 · 09-09-2008, 05:36 PM

I feel my blood pressure rising just reading about the OP's situation. Ridiculous. Did they dust the steering wheel for prints, and find fibers in the back seat too? I suppose the trunk was cleaned out with bleach which voids the warranty as well. Tell the jokers at BMWNA to get a 2 year degree before they start throwing percentages around. From my experience they can barely add and subtract. F them, it's time to file a complaint with motor vehicles.

Fix the car, use your charge card, then dispute the service with the dealership. After that, dispute it with your cc co. Fight fire with fire. btw I'm going to measure my levels now in the garage...

RedGT3 · 09-09-2008, 05:40 PM

I know it makes no difference but what brand of fuel were you using

Mk23 · 09-09-2008, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galahad05

lawyer up

+1

BzsBimmer · 09-09-2008, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John 070

I feel my blood pressure rising just reading about the OP's situation. Ridiculous. Did they dust the steering wheel for prints, and find fibers in the back seat too? I suppose the trunk was cleaned out with bleach which voids the warranty as well. Tell the jokers at BMWNA to get a 2 year degree before they start throwing percentages around. From my experience they can barely add and subtract. F them, it's time to file a complaint with motor vehicles.

Fix the car, use your charge card, then dispute the service with the dealership. After that, dispute it with your cc co. Fight fire with fire. btw I'm going to measure my levels now in the garage...

Wow and John rarely get's upset

If you've used your CC to get gas at a tier 1 station, show those to BMWNA and tell them that as a consumer, you just fill it up and go. Who checks ethanol content at a gas station anyways? I always leave my guages at home

I think the problem you'll have is to prove that you've used tier 1 gas and even then, people have run into tier 1 places using crap gas because of one reason or another.
I would also contact my local TV consumer rights programs or have them call BMW. Unless the manual clearly states that you MUST get gas at a tier 1 supplier and have them verify ethanol content when you leave, I'd say that it's a open and shut case for a lawyer

BzsBimmer · 09-09-2008, 05:56 PM

Did I ever mention that I was glad to get rid of my 335?

09-09-2008, 03:26 PM	#1
hayjoelb Private 4 Rep 57 Posts Drives: None Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Atlanta, GA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 E90 335i [0.00]	Fuel Pump Failure...I have to pay???? 2008 e90 335i w/ 11k miles. My car recently started to show symptoms of the faulty fuel pump (long cranks, limp mode). I took the car into the dealership to have the investigate the issue and they verified that indeed, I had a bad fuel pump. Now here's the catch. BMW refused to replace the pump because it had an ethanol reading of 15% (the maximum allow is 10%). I just fill the fk'ing tank up with 93 octane...how the am I suppose to know what what additional additives are in the fuel? And even if I did, how am I suppose to know the maximum is 10%? BMW of America (not the dealership) has REFUSED to replace my fuel pump...and get this, has stated that I need to PAY to have it replaced. w t f? I've called bmw of america myself and tried to raise some hell, but nothing. Has anyone else encountered this?
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09-09-2008, 03:29 PM	#2
Gig103 Major 68 Rep 1,324 Posts Drives: 2014 Tesla P85D Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Gilbert, AZ iTrader: (1)	The manual does state not to use more than 10% ethanol, and a lot (all around me) stations put 10% into the fuel... But I would think it's difficult to get e85 by mistake, since its bad for most cars. I'd go back to your gas station and raise hell for them having the wrong amount of ethanol in it. __________________ Was: 2008 335xi sedan 6MT Black Sapphire Metallic Is: 2014 Tesla P85D (Blue Metallic) Wife's: 2013 Infiniti G37 S sedan 6MT, Black
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09-09-2008, 03:31 PM	#3
galahad05 Brigadier General 158 Rep 3,158 Posts Drives: '07 335i e90 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Long Island NY iTrader: (0)	lawyer up __________________ Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. --Mark Twain
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09-09-2008, 03:32 PM	#4
clivem2 Colonel 541 Rep 2,073 Posts Drives: X3 M40i Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	It's interesting to note that my European manual also states 95 octane fuel as the min acceptable. I wonder if the US and European maps are very different. Does ethanol destroy the seals in the fuel pump?
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09-09-2008, 04:35 PM	#10
chazzz Captain 116 Rep 712 Posts Drives: 2018 Chrysler 300S Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Southern California iTrader: (4)	Get a Mercedes, it can run on E85 gasoline and you wouldn't have to worry if it's a regular gasoline or E85. BMW can't run on E85 fuel. __________________ SOLD - 2007 BMW 335i Sedan, Montego Blue with Lemon seats, AluFelgen CS7 rims & Continental DW tires CURRENT - 2018 Chrysler 300S, Crystal Granite Metallic.
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09-09-2008, 04:44 PM	#12
SkipSauls First Lieutenant 40 Rep 361 Posts Drives: E70 X5 35d Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Longmont, CO iTrader: (0) Garage List 2007 E92 335i Coupe [0.00]	The OP states that they claim it had 15% ethanol, which would be E15, not E85. E15 doesn't seem to be very common. I would think that the station/vendor/etc. would have to provide notice of the ethanol content, but I don't know for sure. From Wikipedia: "E15 contains 15% ethanol and 85% gasoline. This is generally the greatest ratio of ethanol to gas that is recommended by auto manufacturers that sell vehicles in the United States, though it is possible that many vehicles can handle higher mixtures without trouble." I guess BMW disagrees, but as others have said, they had better make that very clear in the manual, and it probably should say so on the fuel-filler flap. I'd try to make the case to the dealer and BMW NA before going the lawyer route.
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09-09-2008, 04:45 PM	#13
JTBurn Private First Class 3 Rep 142 Posts Drives: 2008 328i Coupe Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Maryland iTrader: (0)	Gee, it's a 335. I thought all their fuel pumps went bad.
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09-09-2008, 04:48 PM	#14
Year's_End Lieutenant General 1138 Rep 12,444 Posts Drives: 2020 Shelby GT350 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: FL iTrader: (0)	Wow dude, fuck that. Get a lawyer. That's completely unreasonable. __________________ Past: '08 E92 335i\|ZPP\|ZSP\|6AT Past: '15 Mustang GT\|401A\|PP\|6MT Current: '20 Shelby GT350\|6MT
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09-09-2008, 04:56 PM	#16
omerfar23 First Lieutenant 19 Rep 379 Posts Drives: 2011 E93 335i, 2008 335i e92 Join Date: May 2007 Location: Baltimore, MD iTrader: (0)	WTF..dude since they are one refusing service on your car its their job to prove ethanol reading of 15% precisely. You shouldn't have to anything. If they do give proper paperwork and are able to prove the "15% ethanol reading" then get a lawyer to fight but odds are they will determine that it will cost them less to get you a new fuel pump than to do all the paperwork. Good luck bro. I am really interested in this because I have the same intermittently (long cranks and etc..) and I was told by the dealership it had to something with the kind of fuel i was using. I been getting 93 octane from local branded gas station. __________________ ******** 2008 BMW 335i TT****
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09-09-2008, 05:02 PM	#17
exidisjon PuffPuffPass 52 Rep 1,096 Posts Drives: E92 335xi AW/Saddle Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: NJ iTrader: (8)	Get a lawyer and either take actions against the gas station or the BMW. You never know you might wound up with a M5 instead. =) Good luck dealers are assholes sometimes. __________________ My right foot weighs more than my left for sure.
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09-09-2008, 05:36 PM	#18
John 070 Lieutenant General 1705 Rep 14,829 Posts Drives: 335i cpe Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: ZSP/ZPP/ZCW iTrader: (0)	I feel my blood pressure rising just reading about the OP's situation. Ridiculous. Did they dust the steering wheel for prints, and find fibers in the back seat too? I suppose the trunk was cleaned out with bleach which voids the warranty as well. Tell the jokers at BMWNA to get a 2 year degree before they start throwing percentages around. From my experience they can barely add and subtract. F them, it's time to file a complaint with motor vehicles. Fix the car, use your charge card, then dispute the service with the dealership. After that, dispute it with your cc co. Fight fire with fire. btw I'm going to measure my levels now in the garage...
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09-09-2008, 05:40 PM	#19
RedGT3 Major 76 Rep 1,253 Posts Drives: .2 GT3/M3cs Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: FL iTrader: (3)	I know it makes no difference but what brand of fuel were you using
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09-09-2008, 05:56 PM	#22
BzsBimmer Major General 3274 Rep 6,723 Posts Drives: '23 G80 FO M3, M3 & MY Tezzy's Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Nor. Cal iTrader: (32)	Did I ever mention that I was glad to get rid of my 335?
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