[Chicken_Joe]

So I dropped my car off at the dealer for low power, blue/some sort of smoke from tailpipes

I know the car needs a VCG which I brought it in to replace anyway. I was driving the car fine and all of a sudden I lost power and felt like DME limited surge if that makes sense. Car is getting blow by in at least 3 cylinders according to the dealership.

As I said, it needs a VCG. I'm not sure how oil could be getting into the cylinders. They said no oil was behind the turbo. HPFP is fine however I'm not sure what the issue is aside from the VCG. The car is Tuned on BM3 Stage 2 OTS nap on 93. Has Downpipe and fmic. Vehicle has 118k miles on it. I was creating some hypothesis' on this an I was told VCG and PCV could be the culprit. No codes are displaying except Low boost pressure. Not really sure where to go from here.

The dealer wanted to charge me another 3-3.5 hrs of labor to do a compression and leak down rear in the motor but that's about 500 or so bucks. They are saying it could be scoring in cylinders or ring failure. Not sure where I should go as this could get extremely expensive.

Please leave any thoughts and ideas to aid me in this.

But beside myself as I love my little car but I need to sort this.

I don't have the car back yet as I'm trying to figure out this stuff for the weekend. I will try and get the car back to log it and send that off to a few people to see what a tuner can say from that standpoint.

I hate bringing it to the dealer but my Indi shop was booked till Monday so I needed a car and basic prognosis. It's not letting me upload a video of the car from my phone but I'll post it in comments.


Thanks for the help.

[thejeremyman9]

You can try doing logs to see if you can explain the loss of power based on the data in the logs, but they aren't really going to help you answer the blue smoke question...

Don't know what you mean by "DME limited surge".

How did the dealership conclude you are going blowby in 3 cylinders without doing a compression or leak down test? How do you know there is oil in the cylinders, aside from inferring from the blue smoke?

Is your downpipe catless?

If you really want to know the internal health of the engine you do need to do the leak down and compression test. You can however start with the "free" option of logging first, assuming you want to do a WOT pull on a potentially hurt engine...

How old are the plugs?

[OUGrad05]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

You can try doing logs to see if you can explain the loss of power based on the data in the logs, but they aren't really going to help you answer the blue smoke question...

Don't know what you mean by "DME limited surge".

How did the dealership conclude you are going blowby in 3 cylinders without doing a compression or leak down test? How do you know there is oil in the cylinders, aside from inferring from the blue smoke?

Is your downpipe catless?

If you really want to know the internal health of the engine you do need to do the leak down and compression test. You can however start with the "free" option of logging first, assuming you want to do a WOT pull on a potentially hurt engine...

How old are the plugs?

I agree. How did they confirm you have blow by on three cylinders? You problem need to do the compression test to actually know. Ring failure in a cylinder seems within the realm of possible, but somewhat surprising on a stage 2 tune unless you just beat on it constantly.

[thejeremyman9]

Another thought - you should be able to tell if you have excessive blowby by checking your inlet pipe (right after where the PCV hose connects, before the turbo) and/or by dropping the IC and check the TIC, IC, and CP for oil buildup. If the issue is your rings and crankcase pressure (typically what people mean by "blowby") then you should see strong evidence of excessive oil buildup in those locations, especially if it was enough to produce blue smoke.

As i was typing that yet another thought - blown turbo. If you do NOT have any evidence of blowby yet you have a low boost code and you are getting blue smoke in the exhaust, you could have a blown turbo. It would explain both of those symptoms. If you mileage is that high and you have been running that tune for a while and drive the card hard, its not a crazy scenario.

[ronanz]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Another thought - you should be able to tell if you have excessive blowby by checking your inlet pipe (right after where the PCV hose connects, before the turbo) and/or by dropping the IC and check the TIC, IC, and CP for oil buildup. If the issue is your rings and crankcase pressure (typically what people mean by "blowby") then you should see strong evidence of excessive oil buildup in those locations, especially if it was enough to produce blue smoke.

As i was typing that yet another thought - blown turbo. If you do NOT have any evidence of blowby yet you have a low boost code and you are getting blue smoke in the exhaust, you could have a blown turbo. It would explain both of those symptoms. If you mileage is that high and you have been running that tune for a while and drive the card hard, its not a crazy scenario.

This ^^ Highly likely..

.

[Chicken_Joe]

Originally Posted by ronanz

This ^^ Highly likely..

.

I had turbo replaced not long ago I don't think it should be that unless I see shaft play or something. The dealer said the PCV numbers were in "spec" for whatever that is worth. Also pulled Downpipe and no oil behind that. They removed intake piping and said that was clear I believe. My SA left town however my buddy works for dealer so I may see if I can talk to the mechanic working on it via him for more direct answers.

[Chicken_Joe]

Originally Posted by OUGrad05

I agree. How did they confirm you have blow by on three cylinders? You problem need to do the compression test to actually know. Ring failure in a cylinder seems within the realm of possible, but somewhat surprising on a stage 2 tune unless you just beat on it constantly.

To be 100% honest I beat on my car pretty good. I keep oil in it and keep service up, on it but I do hammer on it. I was going to do oil sample and send it out for readings to start as well as compression test

[Chicken_Joe]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Another thought - you should be able to tell if you have excessive blowby by checking your inlet pipe (right after where the PCV hose connects, before the turbo) and/or by dropping the IC and check the TIC, IC, and CP for oil buildup. If the issue is your rings and crankcase pressure (typically what people mean by "blowby") then you should see strong evidence of excessive oil buildup in those locations, especially if it was enough to produce blue smoke.

As i was typing that yet another thought - blown turbo. If you do NOT have any evidence of blowby yet you have a low boost code and you are getting blue smoke in the exhaust, you could have a blown turbo. It would explain both of those symptoms. If you mileage is that high and you have been running that tune for a while and drive the card hard, its not a crazy scenario.

Would a blown turbo explain oil collection in the cylinders though?

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by Chicken_Joe

Would a blown turbo explain oil collection in the cylinders though?

Only if the turbo/bearing failed and the oil came out of the compressor side of the shaft. However, you indicated that there was no oil in the TIC/IC/CP, so that does not seem possible as the oil from the turbo would have to travel through the entire intake track to get to the cylinders. If the TIC/IC/CP were free of oil, i think you can eliminate the PCV as well, since that dumps into the turbo inlet.

If the turbo failed and the oil came out of the exhaust turbine side, i imagine that would be clearly visible in the downpipe and/or back of the turbo with DP removed. If they had the DP off they should have been able to check for shaft play.

I think a compression test is in order at this point, and a oil sample is a good idea.

[Chicken_Joe]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Only if the turbo/bearing failed and the oil came out of the compressor side of the shaft. However, you indicated that there was no oil in the TIC/IC/CP, so that does not seem possible as the oil from the turbo would have to travel through the entire intake track to get to the cylinders. If the TIC/IC/CP were free of oil, i think you can eliminate the PCV as well, since that dumps into the turbo inlet.

If the turbo failed and the oil came out of the exhaust turbine side, i imagine that would be clearly visible in the downpipe and/or back of the turbo with DP removed. If they had the DP off they should have been able to check for shaft play.

I think a compression test is in order at this point, and a oil sample is a good idea.

They want to charge me 500 for compression test and I asked them about bad turbo. I had turbo replaced under extended warranty and my bearings got dried and compressor shaft sagged causing turbine find to rub the housing. It was very noticeable that it was an issue but never had blue smoke like I have now.

[Munchi435i]

Originally Posted by Chicken_Joe

They want to charge me 500 for compression test and I asked them about bad turbo. I had turbo replaced under extended warranty and my bearings got dried and compressor shaft sagged causing turbine find to rub the housing. It was very noticeable that it was an issue but never had blue smoke like I have now.

Seems like most of the 2013 model years have had all the issues

Hope you get yours sorted out my friend!

[Chicken_Joe]

Originally Posted by Munchi435i

Seems like most of the 2013 model years have had all the issues

Hope you get yours sorted out my friend!

Seems to be that way and sadly most people I have talked to have told me to sell it and get something else

[ronanz]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Only if the turbo/bearing failed and the oil came out of the compressor side of the shaft. However, you indicated that there was no oil in the TIC/IC/CP, so that does not seem possible as the oil from the turbo would have to travel through the entire intake track to get to the cylinders. If the TIC/IC/CP were free of oil, i think you can eliminate the PCV as well, since that dumps into the turbo inlet.

If the turbo failed and the oil came out of the exhaust turbine side, i imagine that would be clearly visible in the downpipe and/or back of the turbo with DP removed. If they had the DP off they should have been able to check for shaft play.

I think a compression test is in order at this point, and a oil sample is a good idea.

Damn.....great point!

.

[Chicken_Joe]

Update the car is having leak down and compression test done. The tech wants me to flash the car back to stock so he can read misfires. Updates will continue. Thank you for all of the input!

[Chicken_Joe]

Update: car had compression and leakdown done. Numbers are as follows:

Compression:
1: 190
2: 160
3: 185
4: 210
5: 200
6: 185

Leakdown:
1: 60%
2: 7%
3: 20%
4: 7%
5: 8%
6: 22%

Also told me turbocharge was FUBAR and has sagging shaft and multiple bent turbine fins.

I'm honestly BIG sad

[thejeremyman9]

Dang, not great news...

Did they give you any more information on the leakdown test? In other words, was the air escaping into the crankcase (rings), out of the intake (intake valves) or out of the exhaust (exhaust valves)?

Interesting that #2 has the lowest compression but a OK leakdown test. I think you need to take a look at the cylinder walls.

I find it a little odd that the problem happened suddenly... Perhaps the turbo failure was sudden (loss of power and low boost code), but the wear had already been happening slowly over time?

[Chicken_Joe]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Dang, not great news...

Did they give you any more information on the leakdown test? In other words, was the air escaping into the crankcase (rings), out of the intake (intake valves) or out of the exhaust (exhaust valves)?

Interesting that #2 has the lowest compression but a OK leakdown test. I think you need to take a look at the cylinder walls.

I find it a little odd that the problem happened suddenly... Perhaps the turbo failure was sudden (loss of power and low boost code), but the wear had already been happening slowly over time?

Yeah that's my hypothesis. I called a separate local shop and they said it sounded weird and wanted to look over the car them selves.

[Zyler]

Originally Posted by Munchi435i

Seems like most of the 2013 model years have had all the issues

Hope you get yours sorted out my friend!

Can you elaborate on this? Other than the typical gasket leaks and some failures after replacing the OFHG, I haven't seen that many threads about these types of engine problems occurring specifically in 2013s. You've seen different?

[JaredG_F30]

Bore it out, partially build the engine (new pistons and rings) and throw a big single turbo on there

Originally Posted by Chicken_Joe

Update: car had compression and leakdown done. Numbers are as follows:

Compression:
1: 190
2: 160
3: 185
4: 210
5: 200
6: 185

Leakdown:
1: 60%
2: 7%
3: 20%
4: 7%
5: 8%
6: 22%

Also told me turbocharge was FUBAR and has sagging shaft and multiple bent turbine fins.

I'm honestly BIG sad

[Chicken_Joe]

Originally Posted by JaredG_F30

Bore it out, partially build the engine (new pistons and rings) and throw a big single turbo on there

Nah I'm not trying to spend all that money in a car that's not worth it. Realistically n55 is garbage but it's a decent daily. 400-450whp is a solid goal for this build. I'm tearing engine down in a few days and having upgraded rings and a few other bits installed for a turbo upgrade. With that said I want something in the PS1/2 power range. Not sure what to go with. Probs Lu will do PSW but I know they have some other options I just need to find them

[JaredG_F30]

Yeah if your cylinder walls are ok then upgraded rings is a good option. Did they scope it?

Originally Posted by Chicken_Joe

Nah I'm not trying to spend all that money in a car that's not worth it. Realistically n55 is garbage but it's a decent daily. 400-450whp is a solid goal for this build. I'm tearing engine down in a few days and having upgraded rings and a few other bits installed for a turbo upgrade. With that said I want something in the PS1/2 power range. Not sure what to go with. Probs Lu will do PSW but I know they have some other options I just need to find them

[Chicken_Joe]

Originally Posted by JaredG_F30

Yeah if your cylinder walls are ok then upgraded rings is a good option. Did they scope it?

No they scoped it a little