[Watsey]

The events of the past week or so, during which Trump attempted to boost his pre-election ratings by ordering the killing of a bad guy, seems to have spectacularly backfired.

176 people dead after a state of heightened alert led to panic and human error.

Iran has now admitted fault. It's a safe bet that Trump would never do the same.

The floor is open for debate.

[Lincoln61]

Completely agree. I'm sure the general was a bad guy, but reminds me of the saying "Instead of wondering if you could do something, did you ever consider if you should do something?"

Typical Trump short term action, he has no idea if the guy replacing him will be worse, the impact on hearts and minds....I could go on.

It was interesting listening to a British diplomat on one of the radio stations this week. He said that in the foreign office even minor actions or inactions are thought through not in terms of days and weeks, but in terms of years and sometimes decades to avoid such calamities.

I think as with most things Trump has done the true impact on American hard and soft power will take years to reveal themselves, much to the joy of Russia and China.

[MashinBenzin]

The taking out of Soleimani really was against any international standards that we, the west, claim to hold others too. Russia is evil for poisoning the agent in Salisbury, killing an innocent too, but it's ok for the US to launch a missile at an airport perimeter road. Hmmm.

But, the guy deserved to go. He was causing too much trouble and was behind a lot of the oppression of the Iranian people. He was the true power in Iran. He will be replaced, but will the replacement be equally strong and charismatic (to his followers). The US will be gambling on no.

I strongly dislike the way that Iran is portrayed as the evil in that region. It's a terrible regime, mainly for the Iranians that live under it - intelligent, warm and cultured people.

Yet Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia is allowed to fund all sorts of terrorism and promote the strict, intolerant form of Islam that is causing problems world wide.

Iran's issue is almost existential. Both Israel and Saudi Arabia would happily wipe out iran tomorrow. The potential exists for Sunni/Wahhabi Islam to overrun the region and carry on expanding from there. Whilst Shia and Sunni is a strange divide for us to understand, brought up in a Christian country, it really is a huge divide.

The shooting down of the plane is tragic, senseless. As soon as I heard the news, I knew that someone had got trigger happy in a nervous situation. What we will perhaps never know is whether US assets were in the air over Iran at the time and being tracked. If there were, that shares some of the blame. Really though, the Iranians should have grounded all flights on a night where they were taking hostile action.

My wife was born there and had close relatives flying in and out just last month and last week. She was happy about the general getting his comeuppance. Sad, very sad, about what happened to the plane.

A huge amount of shared blame across not just the US and Iran, but Saudi and Israel and probably us too. The meddling and messing in the region is a tragedy. Wahhabism is an evil sect.

Bit of a ramble, I know!

[TodmordenLad]

As many others who are far better qualified and for more eloquent than I am have pointed out in the media recently, it would appear that there was little or no strategic thinking behind Trump's action here, which, given the potential ramifications, is alarming, to say the least.
I watched an excerpt of him on Fox News very recently talking about the ME. He is almost childlike in his choice of language, in his apparent understanding of the region and in his over-simplifation of the issues.
What can you say? He'll probably get re-elected

[BMWILUVU]

Originally Posted by Lincoln61

Completely agree. I'm sure the general was a bad guy, but reminds me of the saying "Instead of wondering if you could do something, did you ever consider if you should do something?"

Typical Trump short term action, he has no idea if the guy replacing him will be worse, the impact on hearts and minds....I could go on.

It was interesting listening to a British diplomat on one of the radio stations this week. He said that in the foreign office even minor actions or inactions are thought through not in terms of days and weeks, but in terms of years and sometimes decades to avoid such calamities.

I think as with most things Trump has done the true impact on American hard and soft power will take years to reveal themselves, much to the joy of Russia and China.

Trump sure has learned how the swamp works and how to fit right in.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

The taking out of Soleimani really was against any international standards that we, the west, claim to hold others too. Russia is evil for poisoning the agent in Salisbury, killing an innocent too, but it's ok for the US to launch a missile at an airport perimeter road. Hmmm.

But, the guy deserved to go. He was causing too much trouble and was behind a lot of the oppression of the Iranian people. He was the true power in Iran. He will be replaced, but will the replacement be equally strong and charismatic (to his followers). The US will be gambling on no.

I strongly dislike the way that Iran is portrayed as the evil in that region. It's a terrible regime, mainly for the Iranians that live under it - intelligent, warm and cultured people.

Yet Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia is allowed to fund all sorts of terrorism and promote the strict, intolerant form of Islam that is causing problems world wide.

Iran's issue is almost existential. Both Israel and Saudi Arabia would happily wipe out iran tomorrow. The potential exists for Sunni/Wahhabi Islam to overrun the region and carry on expanding from there. Whilst Shia and Sunni is a strange divide for us to understand, brought up in a Christian country, it really is a huge divide.

The shooting down of the plane is tragic, senseless. As soon as I heard the news, I knew that someone had got trigger happy in a nervous situation. What we will perhaps never know is whether US assets were in the air over Iran at the time and being tracked. If there were, that shares some of the blame. Really though, the Iranians should have grounded all flights on a night where they were taking hostile action.

My wife was born there and had close relatives flying in and out just last month and last week. She was happy about the general getting his comeuppance. Sad, very sad, about what happened to the plane.

A huge amount of shared blame across not just the US and Iran, but Saudi and Israel and probably us too. The meddling and messing in the region is a tragedy. Wahhabism is an evil sect.

Bit of a ramble, I know!

Sunni vs Shia divide really depends on the country, mainly just the poor countries. My wife and her family in Kuwait are Sunni, and my wife’s best friend, from childhood to today, is Shia.

[TouringPleb]

Originally Posted by TodmordenLad

As many others who are far better qualified and for more eloquent than I am have pointed out in the media recently, it would appear that there was little or no strategic thinking behind Trump's action here, which, given the potential ramifications, is alarming, to say the least.
I watched an excerpt of him on Fox News very recently talking about the ME. He is almost childlike in his choice of language, in his apparent understanding of the region and in his over-simplifation of the issues.
What can you say? He'll probably get re-elected

Slightly off topic but it really, really bugs me that he doesn't seem to talk in complete sentences.

If you ever read a transcript of one of his speeches they literally make no sense.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by teaston

Sunni vs Shia divide really depends on the country, mainly just the poor countries. My wife and her family in Kuwait are Sunni, and my wife's best friend, from childhood to today, is Shia.

Yes, I meant regionally not in any particular country. Wahhabism is the issue, globally.

[RobUK]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

...Bit of a ramble, I know!

Trump is totally untethered from reality and I think your post sums it up perfectly.

[Consett Mag]

Max Hastings, whilst speaking on Question Time asked how we would like it if Putin took out a pro Western leader.
It's concerning that Trump behaves as though he really does know best in just about all worldly affairs.

[TodmordenLad]

Originally Posted by TouringPleb

Slightly off topic but it really, really bugs me that he doesn't seem to talk in complete sentences.

If you ever read a transcript of one of his speeches they literally make no sense.

So true. He is barely coherent - which probably explains why his followers support him

[NormanConquest]

USA has a record of taking out terrorist, I did not see these objection when thousands of other terrorist including Bin Laden were taken out.

[The0pportunist]

Both Trump & Khamenei have blood on their hands.

For Trump I think it was a political move to distract people from his impeachment trial. I can imagine he was furious over the christmas period and had to do something drastic to change the headlines. To be fair it worked, headlines did in fact change and I too became distracted.

What i'm surprised at is why a president who is facing impeachment is allowed to fire missiles on a foreign country without explicit approval. Surely someone who is being humiliated worldwide is going to act erratic & unpredictably.

As for threatening to bomb cultural sites - that is a terrorist in my books.