E90 Wont start - not the battery

Adorableminpin · 09-10-2019, 07:46 AM

Help please!
We have a 2008 328i - I need HELP Please.
Hubs drove it to the store - returned to the car and it wouldnt start. He and his friend towed it home with a strap. two miles. Im sure they flipped the switch in the shifter but not positive.
Battery window was black, figured it needed a battery. No codes showing at this point. BMW battery that is 1 1/2 yrs old was charged up and green light is on. 12.75 volts. No noise from the starter but fuel pump kicks on. Lights on dash work. No start. Big yellow exclamation point on the dash at this point.
They bought a black battery and it was installed in the car w/o coding it to the car but it was registered with BMW logger. Then DME and CAS codes were thrown along with the footwell module ( not sure of the name of this one). Took black battery out and put in charged up BMW battery and re-registered to the car. DME codes went away and all other codes but CAS. Is this module messed up?
Reviewed a video on youtube and checked the 14 gauge white wire that enters the green plugin located in the white box under the hood. Does not light up the test light. All others in the plugin light up. Tried to start the car with the BMW battery in place but now we hear the starter click. All lights on the dash work.
Researching and trying to figure out what relays and fuses are related to CAS. Checked the starter relay which works.
Checked IBS - doesnt make a difference.
I have tried to clear CAS codes twice using a Maxsys Autolite - i think it was called. A friends machine for his used car dealership. I do have INPA and ISTA D and two other programs I can reinstall on laptop but I would rather not if I can use the Maxsys.
Any suggestions? Ideas? Your help is very much appreciated.

gbalthrop · 09-10-2019, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adorableminpin

...2008 328i...drove it to the store - returned to the car and it wouldnt start [need details on what was done exactly to try to get it to start at the store, for how long, and what tests if any were done then, such as lights lighting, etc.]...towed it home...
Battery window was black, figured it needed a battery. [consider possibility that Alternator is NOT charging - test after getting Starter to work] No codes showing at this point. BMW battery that is 1 1/2 yrs old was charged up and green light is on. 12.75 volts. No noise from the starter but fuel pump kicks on. Lights on dash work. No start. Big yellow exclamation point on the dash at this point. [you probably have CC-ID Code - use "Check Control" procedure per Owner's Manual and post code if you don't have Bentley or other reference to lookup CC-ID code]...
Tried to start the car with the BMW battery in place but now we hear the starter click. All lights on the dash work. Researching and trying to figure out what relays and fuses are related to CAS. Checked the starter relay which works. [I would be interested in knowing WHAT relay located WHERE was checked, as there is NO Starter Relay AFAIK external to the CAS which acts as the Start Relay]...I have tried to clear CAS codes twice using a Maxsys Autolite - i think it was called. A friends machine for his used car dealership. I do have INPA and ISTA D and two other programs I can reinstall on laptop but I would rather not if I can use the Maxsys...

If the Starter Solenoid is now clicking when START is pressed with foot on the brake, that would suggest to me that everything is NOW working except the starter. Try tapping on the Starter Solenoid, while START activated, with a wooden or plastic dowel, such as a long handle. Do NOT use a metal rod or you may contact the B+ supply to starter and weld something -- NOT good.

I don't know anything about Maxsys. What were you using when you read DME & CAS fault codes, and WHAT fault codes did you read (the actual code numbers)?

INPA would tell you if "Terminal 50" is active, which it is in the second or two when CAS is sending signal to the Starter Solenoid. Perhaps Maxsys can do the same. Can Maxsys read Parameters such as Voltage at various "terminals" when connected to CAS? INPA can do all that if needed for proper diagnosis.

If "Terminal 50" shows Voltage approaching 12V (it won't be full battery voltage due to Starter Draw) when START is pressed with foot on brake, then your problem is in the Starter itself.

The two fuses supplying power to CAS on your 2008 E90 are F36 & F55 which are located on the JB (Junction Box) fuse panel, per this TIS circuit diagram:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...system/uXuCNh9

Please let us know what you find,
George

vilord · 09-10-2019, 12:21 PM

My first guess is one of the battery or ground cables is corroded and/or broken.

you could try taking a jumper cable from the engine to the body.
also try measuring the voltage at the starter when cranking (yes, this part is not easy)

places where the wires go bad are the ground strap from the engine to the frame approximately under the driver's feet, and the battery connection points under the battery where they go through the body, and also under the hood the positive cable that leads to the starter

Adorableminpin · 09-10-2019, 05:56 PM

Thank you so much for responding George. I have read that you are an expert with these cars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

If the Starter Solenoid is now clicking when START is pressed with foot on the brake, that would suggest to me that everything is NOW working except the starter. Try tapping on the Starter Solenoid, while START activated, with a wooden or plastic dowel, such as a long handle. Do NOT use a metal rod or you may contact the B+ supply to starter and weld something -- NOT good.

George - I have a question......how do you reach it?

I don't know anything about Maxsys. What were you using when you read DME & CAS fault codes, and WHAT fault codes did you read (the actual code numbers)?
I had taken a photo of the codes but they are MIA since i had to get a new phone. I am going to try and recover them if at all possible.

INPA would tell you if "Terminal 50" is active, which it is in the second or two when CAS is sending signal to the Starter Solenoid. Perhaps Maxsys can do the same. Can Maxsys read Parameters such as Voltage at various "terminals" when connected to CAS? INPA can do all that if needed for proper diagnosis.

If "Terminal 50" shows Voltage approaching 12V (it won't be full battery voltage due to Starter Draw) when START is pressed with foot on brake, then your problem is in the Starter itself.

The two fuses supplying power to CAS on your 2008 E90 are F36 & F55 which are located on the JB (Junction Box) fuse panel, per this TIS circuit diagram:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...system/uXuCNh9
Both fuses look good.

Please let us know what you find,
George

I am working on it. I will have to ask the men what they did to the car at the store. Im still learning how to work this forum.

328iDriver · 09-11-2019, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adorableminpin

Help please!
We have a 2008 328i - I need HELP Please.
Hubs drove it to the store - returned to the car and it wouldnt start. He and his friend towed it home with a strap. two miles. Im sure they flipped the switch in the shifter but not positive.
Battery window was black, figured it needed a battery. No codes showing at this point. BMW battery that is 1 1/2 yrs old was charged up and green light is on. 12.75 volts. No noise from the starter but fuel pump kicks on. Lights on dash work. No start. Big yellow exclamation point on the dash at this point.
They bought a black battery and it was installed in the car w/o coding it to the car but it was registered with BMW logger. Then DME and CAS codes were thrown along with the footwell module ( not sure of the name of this one). Took black battery out and put in charged up BMW battery and re-registered to the car. DME codes went away and all other codes but CAS. Is this module messed up?
Reviewed a video on youtube and checked the 14 gauge white wire that enters the green plugin located in the white box under the hood. Does not light up the test light. All others in the plugin light up. Tried to start the car with the BMW battery in place but now we hear the starter click. All lights on the dash work.
Researching and trying to figure out what relays and fuses are related to CAS. Checked the starter relay which works.
Checked IBS - doesnt make a difference.
I have tried to clear CAS codes twice using a Maxsys Autolite - i think it was called. A friends machine for his used car dealership. I do have INPA and ISTA D and two other programs I can reinstall on laptop but I would rather not if I can use the Maxsys.
Any suggestions? Ideas? Your help is very much appreciated.

How many miles on the BMW in question? is it more than 100K?

Adorableminpin · 09-12-2019, 09:10 AM

Response to questions on the post:
The men tried to start the car several times and then tried to jump it at the store. Hubs knows better than to try and jump it at the battery so I know they hooked up to the terminals under the hood.
Fuses 36 and 55 look good.
I watched a video about the alleged "starter" relay - Kl. 30g to the far right. Its the only one in the fuse bock under dash. It works fine.
Yes the car has over 100,000 on it.
How do you reach the starter to tap it? We tried the other night but my question is? Do i need to remove the cowl or the piece that holds the cabin filter and the wires that go across the top of the motor? Do you get to it from the side or the top in between the manifold openings?
I have to get a hold of the machine again in order to test the car. Apparently it was quite expensive so this is not an easy feat.
I will report back.......Thanks everyone.

schwing · 09-12-2019, 04:42 PM

I think the issue is the starter. My starter failed around 145K miles without warning. Luckily, car was parked in driveway. I replaced with new Bosch starter SR0492N (SR0492X=remanufactured). I suggest FCP Euro ~$150 or RockAuto ~$130. Both don't require core charge/return. BTW, installation was a bit difficult due to limited access to starter bolts.

vilord · 09-12-2019, 06:50 PM

^ thinking you're right actually. Starter failure in my wagon was similar. Fine, then nothing and just an exclamation point on the dash.
Mine died at a store, but 6MT so we push started it, then I stopped at AutoZone, got a starter, roll started it, and headed home.
Also about 140k, though I had battery and ground issues that contributed to its death.

Adorableminpin · 09-25-2019, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

If the Starter Solenoid is now clicking when START is pressed with foot on the brake, that would suggest to me that everything is NOW working except the starter. Try tapping on the Starter Solenoid, while START activated, with a wooden or plastic dowel, such as a long handle. Do NOT use a metal rod or you may contact the B+ supply to starter and weld something -- NOT good.

I don't know anything about Maxsys. What were you using when you read DME & CAS fault codes, and WHAT fault codes did you read (the actual code numbers)?

INPA would tell you if "Terminal 50" is active, which it is in the second or two when CAS is sending signal to the Starter Solenoid. Perhaps Maxsys can do the same. Can Maxsys read Parameters such as Voltage at various "terminals" when connected to CAS? INPA can do all that if needed for proper diagnosis.

If "Terminal 50" shows Voltage approaching 12V (it won't be full battery voltage due to Starter Draw) when START is pressed with foot on brake, then your problem is in the Starter itself.

The two fuses supplying power to CAS on your 2008 E90 are F36 & F55 which are located on the JB (Junction Box) fuse panel, per this TIS circuit diagram:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...system/uXuCNh9

Please let us know what you find,
George

I hope this works George.
I uploaded photos of the codes.
These were thrown after the wrong battery was installed.
They all cleared up except the CAS.
I have a starter that I plan to install on the car, I guess Ill do it regardless.
Im not looking forward to it but heres to trial and error.

Adorableminpin · 09-25-2019, 08:50 AM

Wish mine was manual transmission!

Adorableminpin · 10-15-2019, 12:53 PM

It was the starter! And what a job that was.......
Had to do it the adventurous way and move the intake out of the way. I couldnt get both bolts at the bottom out.
Then the start didnt just come off like it should have. Had to use a screw driver and hammer to pry it off.
Now, Gentlemen, We have codes. Airbag light is on, brake light is on, abs is on.
Now, back to researching the answers.

09-10-2019, 07:46 AM	#1
Adorableminpin New Member 2 Rep 9 Posts Drives: 2008 BMW 328i Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Tallahassee. Fl iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 BMW 328i [0.00]	E90 Wont start - not the battery - not IBS Help please! We have a 2008 328i - I need HELP Please. Hubs drove it to the store - returned to the car and it wouldnt start. He and his friend towed it home with a strap. two miles. Im sure they flipped the switch in the shifter but not positive. Battery window was black, figured it needed a battery. No codes showing at this point. BMW battery that is 1 1/2 yrs old was charged up and green light is on. 12.75 volts. No noise from the starter but fuel pump kicks on. Lights on dash work. No start. Big yellow exclamation point on the dash at this point. They bought a black battery and it was installed in the car w/o coding it to the car but it was registered with BMW logger. Then DME and CAS codes were thrown along with the footwell module ( not sure of the name of this one). Took black battery out and put in charged up BMW battery and re-registered to the car. DME codes went away and all other codes but CAS. Is this module messed up? Reviewed a video on youtube and checked the 14 gauge white wire that enters the green plugin located in the white box under the hood. Does not light up the test light. All others in the plugin light up. Tried to start the car with the BMW battery in place but now we hear the starter click. All lights on the dash work. Researching and trying to figure out what relays and fuses are related to CAS. Checked the starter relay which works. Checked IBS - doesnt make a difference. I have tried to clear CAS codes twice using a Maxsys Autolite - i think it was called. A friends machine for his used car dealership. I do have INPA and ISTA D and two other programs I can reinstall on laptop but I would rather not if I can use the Maxsys. Any suggestions? Ideas? Your help is very much appreciated.
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09-10-2019, 12:21 PM	#3
vilord Major 488 Rep 1,309 Posts Drives: E91, Tundra, TT, SV650 Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: boston iTrader: (1) Garage List 2019 Tundra TRD SR5 [0.00] 2002 Audi TT Roadster [0.00] 2009 BMW 328i Wagon [0.00]	My first guess is one of the battery or ground cables is corroded and/or broken. you could try taking a jumper cable from the engine to the body. also try measuring the voltage at the starter when cranking (yes, this part is not easy) places where the wires go bad are the ground strap from the engine to the frame approximately under the driver's feet, and the battery connection points under the battery where they go through the body, and also under the hood the positive cable that leads to the starter
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09-12-2019, 09:10 AM	#6
Adorableminpin New Member 2 Rep 9 Posts Drives: 2008 BMW 328i Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Tallahassee. Fl iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 BMW 328i [0.00]	E90 wont start Please Help. Response to questions on the post: The men tried to start the car several times and then tried to jump it at the store. Hubs knows better than to try and jump it at the battery so I know they hooked up to the terminals under the hood. Fuses 36 and 55 look good. I watched a video about the alleged "starter" relay - Kl. 30g to the far right. Its the only one in the fuse bock under dash. It works fine. Yes the car has over 100,000 on it. How do you reach the starter to tap it? We tried the other night but my question is? Do i need to remove the cowl or the piece that holds the cabin filter and the wires that go across the top of the motor? Do you get to it from the side or the top in between the manifold openings? I have to get a hold of the machine again in order to test the car. Apparently it was quite expensive so this is not an easy feat. I will report back.......Thanks everyone.
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09-12-2019, 04:42 PM	#7
schwing Private 12 Rep 64 Posts Drives: 2006 SGM 330i Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (3)	I think the issue is the starter. My starter failed around 145K miles without warning. Luckily, car was parked in driveway. I replaced with new Bosch starter SR0492N (SR0492X=remanufactured). I suggest FCP Euro ~$150 or RockAuto ~$130. Both don't require core charge/return. BTW, installation was a bit difficult due to limited access to starter bolts.
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09-12-2019, 06:50 PM	#8
vilord Major 488 Rep 1,309 Posts Drives: E91, Tundra, TT, SV650 Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: boston iTrader: (1) Garage List 2019 Tundra TRD SR5 [0.00] 2002 Audi TT Roadster [0.00] 2009 BMW 328i Wagon [0.00]	^ thinking you're right actually. Starter failure in my wagon was similar. Fine, then nothing and just an exclamation point on the dash. Mine died at a store, but 6MT so we push started it, then I stopped at AutoZone, got a starter, roll started it, and headed home. Also about 140k, though I had battery and ground issues that contributed to its death.
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09-25-2019, 08:50 AM	#10
Adorableminpin New Member 2 Rep 9 Posts Drives: 2008 BMW 328i Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Tallahassee. Fl iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 BMW 328i [0.00]	Wish mine was manual transmission!
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10-15-2019, 12:53 PM	#11
Adorableminpin New Member 2 Rep 9 Posts Drives: 2008 BMW 328i Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Tallahassee. Fl iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 BMW 328i [0.00]	Problem fixed! It was the starter! And what a job that was....... Had to do it the adventurous way and move the intake out of the way. I couldnt get both bolts at the bottom out. Then the start didnt just come off like it should have. Had to use a screw driver and hammer to pry it off. Now, Gentlemen, We have codes. Airbag light is on, brake light is on, abs is on. Now, back to researching the answers.
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