[mike sevel]

Over the years enjoying this site, I have noticed that members new car purchased prices are never mentioned. I assume that some may feel that it is their personal business only. Also stating what you paid for the car may result in others revealing a lower price and that is demoralizing.

Here's a new option to keep it neutral. I am considering a new 4 series coupe. Cash deal, no trade. What percentage discount can I negotiate for a MSRP of $45,000?

Thanx,
Mikey

[tcphoto]

A new car is great but I have learned that a clean used car is the way to go. If you search online sales, a two to three year old vehicle can be the best value. That $45K new car compared to a low mileage two year old car and probably be had for much less. Here’s one from a two minute search with a $10K savings before negotiating.


https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

[Delta0311]

tcphoto is right don't bother going new.. Personally I buy used under 10k miles; my sweet spot is around 6k miles. This will usually get you a previous year model at a discount rate.. I bought new in the past and don't really see the point in taking the initial depreciation hit. I also feel you get a bit more wiggle room when negotiating used.

[e90yyc]

In Canada, margins were about 7% when I left the industry. Might be different in the States but I doubt it.

Need more info to tell you what is fair. Is this a factory order? Is it a car already on their lot? What model year?

[JingChai]

Don't get emotionally attached to the car. The dealer should want your money more than you want the car. If you don't feel like the number work don't be afraid to politely ask to think things over and leave.

[colorado.e9x]

Yeah definitely don't buy new. A cars value immediately goes down by about 10% the moment you drive it off the lot

[porsche959]

Make sure to get a car that hasn’t been farted in. You want to be the first fart.

[colorado.e9x]

Originally Posted by porsche959

Make sure to get a car that hasn’t been farted in. You want to be the first fart.

Also don't want anyone else to pimp it out before you. No one wants sloppy seconds

[macheff03]

Buy used. Not old used... just don't be the one driving it off the lot and losing 10% of its value. Let someone else do that

[Bob Shiftright]

Originally Posted by mike sevel

What percentage discount can I negotiate for a MSRP of $45,000?

Thanx,
Mikey

I'm a terrible negotiator so I probably couldn't negotiate a very good discount.

When I purchased the E91, I used the Costco car buying service to get bids, and I also used https://www.checkbook.org/auto/ to get bids.

https://www.truecar.com/ will show a graphic of prices paid in your area.

I paid cash. I buy new because configurations that I want -- starting with a manual transmission -- are usually fairly rare. Add in a color and other equipment that I'd want and it would be nearly impossible to find exactly what I want in a used car. It would take hours and hours of work and in the long run it is probably cheaper to just stick to my day job and buy new.

I have the impression that BMW doesn't do a lot of cash sales because they wanted a certified check (the local Honda dealer has always been fine with personal checks) and because they sent the title to me by certified mail, but kept the license plates and had me drive back to the dealership to get them. I know from experience that the title, registration and plates all come from DMV in the same plastic envelope and I could have mounted the plates on the car in about 5 minutes, rather than have wasted 2 hours to have them do it. Why they do it this way I have no idea.

The exception would be if I decided to buy a car that's no longer manufactured, say, an air-cooled Porsche or something unique like a classic hot-rod. Then all my car buying guidelines would go out the window and I'd expect to wildly overpay for whatever caught my eye. (Fortunately, I don't have the garage space for an air-cooled Porsche or a classic hot rod and I'm not going to park one outside.)

I keep cars for a long time. Buying new avoids the long-term effects of the Evil Previous Owner. If the clutch fails prematurely I know it's either me or the car's manufacturer.

Maybe you want to lease? Crunch the numbers, all things considered it might actually be cheaper.

[Efthreeoh]

Here's my 2 cents. My Uncle Bill, a long time ago explained car negotiation to me in very simple terms... Your intent is to buy the car at the lowest price you can and the dealership's intent is to sell the car at the highest price they can. Your job is to find the lowest price the dealership is willing to sell the car to you. It sounds like common sense, but putting it in practice is the trick. And speaking of tricks, the dealership has millions of them. You just need to cut though the BS and determine at what price the dealership will make the transaction. You also need to determine what the highest price you are willing to pay for the car.

There are many tools now on line that help here, but even those have tricks built in. The dealership knows them all and knows them better than you, so all-in-all it just comes back to finding the lowest price the dealership is willing tp sell the car to you. The harder you negotiate, the better price you will get. You need to find a starting low price that very close to being unreasonable so as to not turn off the dealership because you are appearing not serious. It helps if you are armed with data, such as other dealerships in the area that have the same, or close to the same car (i.e. options), and other competing brands models you are considering (i.e. Camaro vs. Mustang).

"Cash deal" means what, writing a check for the car, or financing it with no trade? I really don't think a "cash deal" really helps in the price negotiation since the dealership really doesn't care where it gets its money for the car. Going in with a pre-approved bank loan helps though because it takes one element of the negotiation out of the process. The only thing bringing cash to the table is it reduces the elements of what you negotiate; the dealership isn't thinking, "oh, this guy has cash, so I'll sell the car to him at a lower price." He has a bottom line price he'll make a profit on the car, you need to find that price, or at least get as close to it as possible.

And willingness on your part to "walk away" is really in the end the only leverage you have. That ties into don't show you are emotionally attached to the car, as someone above else wisely advised. Lastly look at it as a game and it as fun (I do). If you don't like to negotiate and don't see it as fun, then you'll be less successful. And always remember, it's just business and it's never personal.

[Efthreeoh]

Here's my thoughts on buying new vs. used. All buying used means is you do not get to use the car at its best condition and you pay a price for that. If you keep the car a long time and lots of miles, depreciation goes out of the picture. Buying "certified" helps because part of the incentive is the manufacturer offers a longer warranty than on a new car, but it's still an economic trade off. The industry standard is a total of 6 years warranty and 100,000 miles total mileage. So if you buy a certified car that is 3 years old at 30,000 miles, if you are not going to drive the car 70,000 miles in the 3 years the warranty is left on it, then you are overpaying for the extended warranty.

I've bought 3 BMWs new and kept them 22 years, 18 years, and 13 years with 189,000, 257,000, and 380,000 miles respectively. I'll go on record that I haven't lost depreciation on any of them.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by porsche959

Make sure to get a car that hasn’t been farted in. You want to be the first fart.

Seriously, does anyone buy used underwear?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Bob Shiftright

I'm a terrible negotiator so I probably couldn't negotiate a very good discount.

When I purchased the E91, I used the Costco car buying service to get bids, and I also used https://www.checkbook.org/auto/ to get bids.

https://www.truecar.com/ will show a graphic of prices paid in your area.

I paid cash. I buy new because configurations that I want -- starting with a manual transmission -- are usually fairly rare. Add in a color and other equipment that I'd want and it would be nearly impossible to find exactly what I want in a used car. It would take hours and hours of work and in the long run it is probably cheaper to just stick to my day job and buy new.

I have the impression that BMW doesn't do a lot of cash sales because they wanted a certified check (the local Honda dealer has always been fine with personal checks) and because they sent the title to me by certified mail, but kept the license plates and had me drive back to the dealership to get them. I know from experience that the title, registration and plates all come from DMV in the same plastic envelope and I could have mounted the plates on the car in about 5 minutes, rather than have wasted 2 hours to have them do it. Why they do it this way I have no idea.

The exception would be if I decided to buy a car that's no longer manufactured, say, an air-cooled Porsche or something unique like a classic hot-rod. Then all my car buying guidelines would go out the window and I'd expect to wildly overpay for whatever caught my eye. (Fortunately, I don't have the garage space for an air-cooled Porsche or a classic hot rod and I'm not going to park one outside.)

I keep cars for a long time. Buying new avoids the long-term effects of the Evil Previous Owner. If the clutch fails prematurely I know it's either me or the car's manufacturer.

Maybe you want to lease? Crunch the numbers, all things considered it might actually be cheaper.

This. It all only comes down to how many cents per mile you pay to drive the car. Keep the car longer and drive it more miles, the cheaper it costs to own.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by macheff03

Buy used. Not old used... just don't be the one driving it off the lot and losing 10% of its value. Let someone else do that

It's all a matter of perspective. 10% of what value?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by colorado.e9x

Yeah definitely don't buy new. A cars value immediately goes down by about 10% the moment you drive it off the lot

So what. What does that really mean?

[colorado.e9x]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

So what. What does that really mean?

A brand new car loses about 10% of its value the moment you drive it off the dealer's lot.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by colorado.e9x

A brand new car loses about 10% of its value the moment you drive it off the dealer's lot.

Okay. Again, what does that mean? Refrigerators, dishwashers, plates, spoons, forks, air conditioners, furnaces, clothes, everything, loses "value" as soon as you take it from the store. Why are you singling out an automobile as being problematic and the reason you shouldn't buy one new?

Everyone make that statement, "it loses value as soon as you drive it off the lot", but they never explain why it is an issue. Please explain.

Thanks

[colorado.e9x]

Okay? Yeah. Everything depreciates. Whats your point?This is an automotive forum. The thread is about buying a new car. Maybe that's why I'm singling out an automobile.

A new car loses 20-30% of its value by the end of its first year of driving. Five years down the road and 60% of it's value is out the window. New cars depreciate faster than used cars do.

I would much rather buy a car after it's been leased for a few years. It's like-new and I can get it a lot cheaper than if I bought one that's fresh out of the factory.

Do you still not understand why I would choose a like-new vehicle for 30% cheaper over a brand new vehicle? I think it's pretty obvious.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by colorado.e9x

Okay? Yeah. Everything depreciates. Whats your point?This is an automotive forum. The thread is about buying a new car. Maybe that's why I'm singling out an automobile.

A new car loses 20-30% of its value by the end of its first year of driving. Five years down the road and 60% of it's value is out the window. New cars depreciate faster than used cars do.

I would much rather buy a car after it's been leased for a few years. It's like-new and I can get it a lot cheaper than if I bought one that's fresh out of the factory.

Do you still not understand why I would choose a like-new vehicle for 30% cheaper over a brand new vehicle? I think it's pretty obvious.

A vehicle is a tool. A transportation tool. It is made to get you from point A to point B. That's it. How much you want to pay per mile to get yourself from A to B is the metric. More expensive cars get you from A to B in some precieved fashion that has more value to you than other people. Depreciation is a made up financial concept that really has no intrinsic meaning. It all comes down to how much you want to pay per mile to move yourself about the place you live. To say you do it better than someone who buys new is just BS. Saying a car loses XX% of it's value is an arbitrary concept. You can't explain it. No one can.

[colorado.e9x]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

A vehicle is a tool. A transportation tool. It is made to get you from point A to point B. That's it. How much you want to pay per mile to get yourself from A to B is the metric. More expensive cars get you from A to B in some precieved fashion that has more value to you than other people. Depreciation is a made up financial concept that really has no intrinsic meaning. It all comes down to how much you want to pay per mile to move yourself about the place you live. To say you do it better than someone who buys new is just BS. Saying a car loses XX% of it's value is an arbitrary concept. You can't explain it. No one can.

You're on some next level shit. Like the same shit as Jim Carrey during New York Fashion Week

[Welcome to NBA Jam]

Regardless of what you're negotiating, remember this:

You don't need a new car. They need to sell a car. At the same time, keep in mind that you are not the only one they are talking to, but they are not the only dealership with a car that you might want. There is always another car around. BMW produces a new one every day, and someone trades in a lightly used one every day.

In short, if you've got a price in mind, keep shopping for it. If you can't get that price, change your expectations.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Seriously, does anyone buy used underwear?

People make a living off of it, but let's just leave it at that....the internet gets...pretty weird.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

A vehicle is a tool. A transportation tool. It is made to get you from point A to point B. That's it. How much you want to pay per mile to get yourself from A to B is the metric. More expensive cars get you from A to B in some precieved fashion that has more value to you than other people. Depreciation is a made up financial concept that really has no intrinsic meaning. It all comes down to how much you want to pay per mile to move yourself about the place you live. To say you do it better than someone who buys new is just BS. Saying a car loses XX% of it's value is an arbitrary concept. You can't explain it. No one can.

Depreciation is mathematically modeled and is a tool used to optimally buy and sell used goods. You may call it a made up concept, but it's a very valid and factual concept that maximizes revenue and/or value depending on what your goal is as either an individual or an organization. It's literally how the entire used car market works. It's why BMW sells used vehicles and puts their name behind "Certified Pre-owned." Companies have entire departments and teams studying and modeling this 5 days a week. If it was arbitrary and unexplainable, it wouldn't be modelable. Models help explain concepts.

People are willing to pay money for certain used items at a certain price. That can be explained.