[brad65ford]

I totally get the reasoning behind "if its modified this will happen" but this happens on stock motors. So knowing this, wouldn't they address this the following year(s)? The S55 motor has now been in production for a good amount of years and it hasn't been addressed. Its as if they just don't give a f!

[chmura]

I keep asking the same thing and you will NOT get an answer.

Less than 1% S55 motors have this failure so BMW does not feel its a big enough issue?? I for sure am not worrying about it in my s55 M2. I think on the forums the issue is blown out of proportion.

[pz619]

Originally Posted by brad65ford

I totally get the reasoning behind "if its modified this will happen" but this happens on stock motors. So knowing this, wouldn't they address this the following year(s)? The S55 motor has now been in production for a good amount of years and it hasn't been addressed. Its as if they just don't give a f!

No motor is bulletproof. Every motor has it's weak point. For the S55 it's the crankhub, rod bearings for E90/E92 M3, E46 M3 was vanos and subframe, etc. To my knowledge, there has been only 1 or 2 M2C S55/crankhub failures on the board. The enthusiast community is vocal, but it's not necessarily representative of actual failings across the range. My guess is if it really was all that prevalent, they would have issued a fix, but because as percentage the failure rates are low, it's probably cheaper to warrant the motor. Of course I want as much of an indestructible motor as possible, but at the same time I need to be realistic. I simply picked up MBI (insurance) for the issue.

[FSU_Logan]

Happened to my S55.. everyone ignoring it, GL.

[chris719]

BMW doesn't change anything unless it's a huge issue that catches regulatory notice. The S65 rod bearing issue was at least 10x more common than this, and they knew about it before the first S65 engine was even produced because they already had dead S85 engines with the same failure mode, yet they did nothing. BMW and other manufacturers will not fix anything possibly because it is a tacit admission of a design flaw which would trigger a costly recall. So if it's not a major issue getting magazine coverage, or a safety issue, good luck.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by chris719

BMW doesn't change anything unless it's a huge issue that catches regulatory notice. The S65 rod bearing issue was at least 10x more common than this, and they knew about it before the first S65 engine was even produced because they already had dead S85 engines with the same failure mode, yet they did nothing. BMW and other manufacturers will not fix anything possibly because it is a tacit admission of a design flaw which would trigger a costly recall. So if it's not a major issue getting magazine coverage, or a safety issue, good luck.

Well put and makes a lot of sense..

Based my research on past lawsuits, auto manufactures never admits fault or apologize, even when there is a substantial civil payout for negligence, on their behalf simply because it opens them up to possible future liability.

It's smart from a common sense approach for a company to acknowledge a flaw but not give light to the issue, if the calculated risk of possible warranty failure is projected to be smaller than the cost of a mandatory recall or lawsuits.

The crank hub bearing in the S55 is same one used on the regular lower-powered BMW motors, so when pushed passed the S55 potential stock power output, it gives away, being the weakest link in the chain. Similar to how the plastic charge pipe is the Achille's Heel of the N55, past stock power.

It's an oversight on BMW M's part and should of been address when the motor was being created, considering the ubiquitous S55 motor is the bread-and-butter in the high-end M lineup.

[gmazet]

Originally Posted by chris719

BMW doesn't change anything unless it's a huge issue that catches regulatory notice. The S65 rod bearing issue was at least 10x more common than this, and they knew about it before the first S65 engine was even produced because they already had dead S85 engines with the same failure mode, yet they did nothing. BMW and other manufacturers will not fix anything possibly because it is a tacit admission of a design flaw which would trigger a costly recall. So if it's not a major issue getting magazine coverage, or a safety issue, good luck.

just finished watching Chernobyl and between that and my lifetime of work experience I've learned over and over, what you said is true. Nobody, no company, no government, no school board, nobody wants to admit flaws in anything. downplay, hush hush, spin, find scapegoats anything to deflect accountability culpability, blame...

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by FSU_Logan

Happened to my S55.. everyone ignoring it, GL.

Were you totally stock?

[FSU_Logan]

Originally Posted by ChrisK

Were you totally stock?

Yep, catback and coilovers.

[infinitekidM2C]

Originally Posted by FSU_Logan

Yep, catback and coilovers.

Hopefully nobody else gets "screwed." GET IT!!?!??! too soon?

[Dav3]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Well put and makes a lot of sense..

The crank hub bearing in the S55 is same one used on the regular lower-powered BMW motors, so when pushed passed the S55 potential stock power output, it gives away,

M4, M4 CS and M4 GTS have identical S55 engine

What is 'pushing past s55 stock power' then?

If anything, I think its more of a problem with people who track their cars, tuned or stock engine.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Dav3

M4, M4 CS and M4 GTS have identical S55 engine

What is 'pushing past s55 stock power' then?

If anything, I think its more of a problem with people who track their cars, tuned or stock engine.

Maybe you breezed pass the part where I mentioned that "...the ubiquitous S55 motor is the bread-and-butter in the high-end M lineup."

Besides the new M2C, obviously the same crank hub was used in all those mentioned vehicles, throughout the S55 line-up.

However, all those "stock power" motor the output never crossed 500hp..

Other than a few isolated cases of stock setup, it's mostly people who venture pass that 500hp/to number is usually the ones that experienced a burn out crank hub..

One would assume, BMW built that part with a tolerance limit of up to 500hp.

[infinitekidM2C]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Maybe you breezed pass the part where I mentioned that "...the ubiquitous S55 motor is the bread-and-butter in the high-end M lineup."

Besides the new M2C, obviously the same crank hub was used in all those mentioned vehicles, throughout the S55 line-up.

However, all those "stock power" motor the output never crossed 500hp..

Other than a few isolated cases of stock setup, it's mostly people who venture pass that 500hp/to number is usually the ones that experienced a burn out crank hub..

One would assume, BMW built that part with a tolerance limit of up to 500hp.

With respect to power output, what do you make of this comment:

"The real question is why do people seem to think this component would see any/significantly more load in a 700hp or 1000 lb/ft application than stock? The load on this component is a function of the power required for the crank to run the valve train which should not change with increases in power, unless you are increasing maximum RPM, valve springs or cam profiles.

This is like saying a tuned car is much more likely to slip the alternator belt than a stock car."

I also read that this issue is far far more common on DCT's.

[chris719]

Seems more common on DCTs, yes. This is unfortunately part of the ownership experience of most S engines. At least the crank hub is not always fatal. Personally, I'd not tune a car in warranty because of it.

[FSU_Logan]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Maybe you breezed pass the part where I mentioned that "...the ubiquitous S55 motor is the bread-and-butter in the high-end M lineup."

Besides the new M2C, obviously the same crank hub was used in all those mentioned vehicles, throughout the S55 line-up.

However, all those "stock power" motor the output never crossed 500hp..

Other than a few isolated cases of stock setup, it's mostly people who venture pass that 500hp/to number is usually the ones that experienced a burn out crank hub..

One would assume, BMW built that part with a tolerance limit of up to 500hp.

To my knowledge every m2c failure so far has been stock flash.

Why are people so keen on not admitting BMW's failure to produce a reliable engine? They failed to fix this problem that has been apparent for years. It is that simple.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by FSU_Logan

To my knowledge every m2c failure so far has been stock flash.

Why are people so keen on not admitting BMW's failure to produce a reliable engine? They failed to fix this problem that has been apparent for years. It is that simple.

The crank hub issue occurred with all variations of motor; stock or tune. So I agree with you, BMW made a "weak" motor.

However, I was pointing out the root cause of the problem is due to a specific part, not the entire motor.

I'm not defending BMW but let's be real; they are tens of thousands of S55 out there that last the life of the vehicle, so It's really a roll of the dice that you end up with a potential dud.
Nothing is set in stone or guaranteed to eventually fail.

And also, if you don't flash tune and void your warranty, you really have little to worry about for at least 4 years/ 50,000 miles..

[chmura]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Maybe you breezed pass the part where I mentioned that "...the ubiquitous S55 motor is the bread-and-butter in the high-end M lineup."

Besides the new M2C, obviously the same crank hub was used in all those mentioned vehicles, throughout the S55 line-up.

However, all those "stock power" motor the output never crossed 500hp..

Other than a few isolated cases of stock setup, it's mostly people who venture pass that 500hp/to number is usually the ones that experienced a burn out crank hub..

One would assume, BMW built that part with a tolerance limit of up to 500hp.

There is really no concrete evidence that spinning the crank hub is from power levels. IMO its a manufacturing defect from the factory.

[TemjinX2]

as others saids..its cost.

Imagine the cost of engineering time for a engineer to redesign the crank hub...

the opportunity cost of taking that engineer to redesign a crank hub instead of having them design some new suv/cuv that will make bmw more money

all the previous model crank hubs in inventory being useless over night

paying to for new machining and tooling

paying for recall and warranty work.

As others said its just cheaper for BMW to warranty the engine.

Cars are built to a cost...BMW doesnt want you to keep your car for 10yrs...they want you to buy a new car every 3yrs since they make more money that way.

[brad65ford]

disagree with the last common, manufacturers do make changes when there is a problem to address. After seeing the amount of failures even in stock condition its just sad. Would it cost money and time, yes, is it the right thing to do, yes. Crazy, leaves a bad taste in my mouth about BMW. Today I found out the total cost for the Max psi crank kit and install. 6k USD said and done. Kind of bs if you ask me.

BMW seems to be fine with the concept of "we will fix under warranty if it happens" versus addressing it at the manufacturing starting point. Makes me think BMW doesn't give an F about long term owner's ownership. Very sad very very sad, makes no sense to me.

In reference to a similar issue but not really. Coyote v8 ford motors need a similar upgrade but that's when you throw boost in them, no failures in stock form.

[chmura]

I agree BMW should of came up with a solution years ago. The S55 motor is almost at the end of its life cycle and bmw not providing an update is really disappointing and I’m losing faith in the brand.

Other brands are more faithful to their customers IMO. For example I had a 2009 Toyota 4Runner that rear window busted out spontaneously. Very rare occurrence which is not talked about on the 4runner forums much. I paid a mechanic to replace it. A year later Toyota sends me a document saying only a small number of people this has happened to and I can take it to the dealer to get it fixed even if it’s out of warranty. Option 2 is if I paid a mechanic to fix they will reimburse all costs. Weeks later Toyota North American sent me a $900 check for me fixing my 10 year old truck.

No way in hell would BMW NA do such a thing!

[gmazet]

Originally Posted by TemjinX2

as others saids..its cost.

Imagine the cost of engineering time for a engineer to redesign the crank hub...

the opportunity cost of taking that engineer to redesign a crank hub instead of having them design some new suv/cuv that will make bmw more money

all the previous model crank hubs in inventory being useless over night

paying to for new machining and tooling

paying for recall and warranty work.

As others said its just cheaper for BMW to warranty the engine.

Cars are built to a cost...BMW doesnt want you to keep your car for 10yrs...they want you to buy a new car every 3yrs since they make more money that way.

sheeeeeeeit my x5 is 2 years old and I'm already getting "upgrade your x5 and save money" mailers from BMW NA

[brad65ford]

Originally Posted by chmura

I agree BMW should of came up with a solution years ago. The S55 motor is almost at the end of its life cycle and bmw not providing an update is really disappointing and I’m losing faith in the brand.

Other brands are more faithful to their customers IMO. For example I had a 2009 Toyota 4Runner that rear window busted out spontaneously. Very rare occurrence which is not talked about on the 4runner forums much. I paid a mechanic to replace it. A year later Toyota sends me a document saying only a small number of people this has happened to and I can take it to the dealer to get it fixed even if it’s out of warranty. Option 2 is if I paid a mechanic to fix they will reimburse all costs. Weeks later Toyota North American sent me a $900 check for me fixing my 10 year old truck.

No way in hell would BMW NA do such a thing!

Hear you buddy. This is my 3rd M car and going to be my last if I spin this crank hub in stock tune. That would be beyond unexpectable regardless they will warranty it. 0 piece of mind imho.