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M2 Technical Topics > S55 Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning > S55 central lock screw „issue“

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      05-16-2019, 05:49 AM   #1
vale007
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S55 central lock screw „issue“

dear all,

you are able to find several videos and posts that the central lock screw of our s55 engine is the main weakpoint when you tune the engine.

now the following question; s55 F8x M3/M4 have 100% same parts as s55 M2C or different parts?

why is this shop offering (different?) two products? is it just marketing? up until now, they haven’t answered my question about the technical differences:-(

what do you think, same parts or different ones? even at the M3/M4 part description it is not written that it not fits at the s55 M2C. google search links you there, so you may order that 139,00.- part before even recognizing that there’s another for 199,00.- for the m2c.

a bit strange, i hope they‘ll answer my question proper soon because I .. already ordert the wrong (?) one, if there is a wrong one..

finally I have installed the h2m part, see video


https://www.h2motors.de/motorteile/b...raube/a-10643/

757Nm and 550hp as stage 1+ ;-)
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Last edited by vale007; 06-25-2019 at 09:51 AM..
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      05-16-2019, 03:52 PM   #2
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The cost of the kit is not excessive. The assembly of the kit instead seems to require at least 4-5 hours. Is it really that complex?
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      05-18-2019, 12:49 AM   #3
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Based on the pics this is the H2M part. I fitted the same to my M2C

https://www.h2motors.de/motorteile/b...raube/a-10643/
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      05-30-2019, 07:53 PM   #4
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Is there a difference between this one, the vargas tuning one and the litchfield one? If so, what are the differences?
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      05-31-2019, 09:55 AM   #5
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They all do the same thing. However the Litchfield one nfi as there has been no images circulated of their design.
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      05-31-2019, 02:53 PM   #6
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But what do they mean on the site https://www.h2motors.de/motorteile/b...raube/a-10643/ when they report "Union with 20 Nm, 90 ° rotation angle"?
In addition to the block, do they indicate that they tighten the nut with a higher torque by turning it 90 °?
There online assembly instructions?
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      05-31-2019, 04:24 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betaone View Post
But what do they mean on the site https://www.h2motors.de/motorteile/b...raube/a-10643/ when they report "Union with 20 Nm, 90 ° rotation angle"?
In addition to the block, do they indicate that they tighten the nut with a higher torque by turning it 90 °?
There online assembly instructions?
Some bolts that are torque to yield (technically all bolts are to some degree) require a torque spec which starts at a low NM followed by a specified angle (you rotate the wrench x degrees). Most modern electronic torque wrenches have this option built in so you don't have to eyeball it. It would be hard to see the gauge on the old analog units.
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      06-01-2019, 08:48 AM   #8
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TTY bolts are single use also. If you need to undo them they should be replaced.

The central crank hub bolt is 120nm plus 270deg which is a fair stretch on a 1.5mm pitch thread.
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      06-01-2019, 01:04 PM   #9
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I think the original question was why there were significantly different prices for the same parts applied to two different BMW models.

But all the other comments are interesting...
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      06-01-2019, 01:05 PM   #10
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Duplicate post

Last edited by M Fifty; 06-01-2019 at 03:35 PM..
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      06-01-2019, 03:27 PM   #11
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Probably because the M2C is the "new" model so they think they can charge more for the same parts...

S55 parts are identical M2C/M3/M4
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      06-01-2019, 03:36 PM   #12
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You and the OP are now on the same wavelength.
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      06-02-2019, 12:55 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proctor750 View Post
Some bolts that are torque to yield (technically all bolts are to some degree) require a torque spec which starts at a low NM followed by a specified angle (you rotate the wrench x degrees). Most modern electronic torque wrenches have this option built in so you don't have to eyeball it. It would be hard to see the gauge on the old analog units.
So 20 Nm is the tightening torque of the 8 screws that fix the nut locking flange.
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      06-02-2019, 03:16 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betaone View Post
So 20 Nm is the tightening torque of the 8 screws that fix the nut locking flange.
No. 20nm to clamp the surfaces then turn a further 90 degrees without reference to torque.

The final torque isn't the issue, it's the bolt stretch.
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      06-02-2019, 05:42 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betaone View Post
So 20 Nm is the tightening torque of the 8 screws that fix the nut locking flange.
Not sure of the torque without a shop manual for any of the bolts, the 8 or the main crank bolt but for the non TTY bolts you should be able to reference a general torque setting based on if it's an M8,M10,M12 etc bolt. This can change of course based on bolt strength, the materials being joined and of course if there is a lubricant involved.

Speaking of which does anyone know where to get a factory manual for the S55? Surely there is a .pdf somewhere (I don't have access to ETK or anything else).

Sorry for the side bar.
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      06-03-2019, 12:25 AM   #16
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It's all on here. Every model in detail. Special tools, torque etc the lot.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/

Last edited by doughboy; 06-03-2019 at 03:43 AM..
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      06-03-2019, 11:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
It's all on here. Every model in detail. Special tools, torque etc the lot.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/
Very good

So it is 20 for the smaller bolts followed by 90 deg. The crank hub bolt is 100nm then 270 degrees. Will have to set the purse down for that one.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...per/1VnXHSnwmC

And

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...tor/1VnXIjk1ni


https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...tor/1VnXMlFNfG
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      06-04-2019, 12:37 AM   #18
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Yes, but you cannot ever turn the central bolt. This risks the assembly security.

The whole lot will have to be replaced, timing sprocket, friction washer etc with all the work involved in that.

With TTY bolts also you cannot ever verify they are at the correct tightness.

You have to trust the assembler as you cannot check to a torque because there isn't a value. Equally you can not loosen them either.
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      06-04-2019, 03:21 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
No. 20nm to clamp the surfaces then turn a further 90 degrees without reference to torque.

The final torque isn't the issue, it's the bolt stretch.
DB,

Are you fitting /have you fitted any spun hub mitigation to yr car ?

If so, which one you going/gone for and why ?

Cheers

BP
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      06-04-2019, 03:23 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vale007 View Post
dear all,

you are able to find several videos and posts that the central lock screw of our s55 engine is the main weakpoint when you tune the engine.

now the following question; s55 F8x M3/M4 have 100% same parts as s55 M2C or different parts?
Yes they are the same - buy the one @ 139 euro.
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      06-04-2019, 04:01 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
DB,

Are you fitting /have you fitted any spun hub mitigation to yr car ?

If so, which one you going/gone for and why ?

Cheers

BP
Yes I'm having the Litchfield bolt retainer fitted by them on 26th June.

My reasons:

1. They are only 1.5 hours drive from my home and have a great technical reputation.
2. £450 fixed price inc vat for all work, parts, coolant etc. They do remove rads for proper access. In and out same day. I can work in their waiting room.
3. It is a possible weak point from a mechanical point of view, I will be tuning so I'd rather get it done for my own piece of mind. They also do an accurate timing check beforehand to make sure no movement has already occured.
4. If it subsequently slips then Litchfield will deduct this cost from cost of full keyed hub replacement in next 12 month's.

If it did slip, the last place I'd take it is to BMW for them to just replace it with the same parts that caused the issue. Not to mention most BMW dealers seem incapable of even simple tasks let alone something this complicated. I hate to think what they would break / mess up in the process. (They even lost the car key on my last visit for gods sake)

Just my rationale anyway.

Last edited by doughboy; 06-04-2019 at 04:07 AM..
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      06-04-2019, 06:08 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post

Just my rationale anyway.
DB - thanks and IMHO your rationale makes good sense. Was fortunate enough to sample L'fields handiwork as had a very brief drive of GreatWhiteM2's BSM M2C. FWIW, L'field have done a great job on his car. BP
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