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      05-13-2019, 10:58 PM   #1
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Car&Driver: Power Game: BMW Understates Output of the M5 Competition's Twin-Turbo V-8

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Dyno run reveals how BMW's two-ton four-door is nearly as quick as a Ford GT in our track tests.

For our experiment, we put a stock M5 Competition on a Dynojet all-wheel-drive dynamometer at Livernois Motorsports and Engineering in Dearborn Heights, Michigan. To avoid any torque multiplication by the car's eight-speed transmission, we ran the test in sixth gear, which is a direct-drive or 1.00:1 ratio. The results show a surprising peak of 617 horsepower and 606 lb-ft of torque at the wheels. Modern drivelines are very efficient at transferring torque, so we're not convinced this is a 700-hp engine at the crank, but it's darn close.


Full article: https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...no-horsepower/
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      05-14-2019, 12:49 AM   #2
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A correction factor was applied which isn't correct as the engine will 'correct' itself back to the same level or power.

Next thing, the M5 is fast in the quarter because it has 4wd and matches the Ford GT to 60mph because of that. If you look at their numbers for higher speeds you will see the GT is much faster. Some of that will be due to drag and frontal area but from 60-100mph there is a 0.6 second speed difference which is quite a bit.

I think this is much more realistic:

https://f90.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1504687


For the old 600ps/700nm tune in my car and the 30 Jahre M5, check out post 25 here.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1036947&page=2


Unfortunately they haven't done an F90 Competition review yet.
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      05-14-2019, 02:21 AM   #3
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[Car&Driver]: BMW Understates Output of the M5 Competition's Twin-Turbo V-8




Quote:
We're well aware of the awesomeness of the engine found in the BMW M5 and M5 Competition, code name S63B44T4. The twin-scroll turbochargers nestled between the 4.4-liter V-8's cylinder banks pressurize the combustion chambers with 25.9 psi at max boost. BMW rates the base engine at 600 horsepower and the Competition model's at 617 horsepower—at the crankshaft—with both making 553 lb-ft of torque.

All those ponies make the all-wheel-drive sedan savagely quick. In our tests, both the M5 and M5 Competition have reached 60 mph in less than three Mississippis and have conquered the quarter-mile in 11.0 seconds or less. Given that both cars weigh in excess of 4200 pounds, we've long suspected that BMW may be understating their outputs. So, we decided to put an M5 Competition on a rolling dynamometer—colloquially known as a "dyno"—to see if our suspicions were warranted.

For our experiment, we put a stock M5 Competition on a Dynojet all-wheel-drive dynamometer at Livernois Motorsports and Engineering in Dearborn Heights, Michigan. To avoid any torque multiplication by the car's eight-speed transmission, we ran the test in sixth gear, which is a direct-drive or 1.00:1 ratio. The results show a surprising peak of 617 horsepower and 606 lb-ft of torque at the wheels. Modern drivelines are very efficient at transferring torque, so we're not convinced this is a 700-hp engine at the crank, but it's darn close.
Source: https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...no-horsepower/
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      05-14-2019, 05:42 AM   #4
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This is SA's figure.
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      05-14-2019, 01:46 PM   #5
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BMW M let's see a proper Nürburgring lap time please.
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      05-14-2019, 02:25 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VCP View Post
BMW M let's see a proper Nürburgring lap time please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brad850csi View Post

the M5 is fast in the quarter because it has 4wd and matches the Ford GT to 60mph because of that. If you look at their numbers for higher speeds you will see the GT is much faster. Some of that will be due to drag and frontal area but from 60-100mph there is a 0.6 second speed difference which is quite a bit.

I think this is much more realistic:

https://f90.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1504687


For the old 600ps/700nm tune in my car and the 30 Jahre M5, check out post 25 here.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1036947&page=2


Unfortunately they haven't done an F90 Competition review yet.
the F90 time is compared to the Ford GT... isn't the M850 or the M8 the direct competitior here?
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      05-14-2019, 02:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
the F90 time is compared to the Ford GT... isn't the M850 or the M8 the direct competitior here?
Ford GT is a track-focused supercar. So neither the M5 nor the upcoming M8 is a direct competitor. M8 is more of a GT car / cruise missile, whose direct competitors will be the likes of the AMG S63 Coupe and Bentley Continental. The C&D article is only making a comparison to the Ford GT for its click-bait factor while marveling at the sheer absurdity of comparing a family sedan to a supercar.
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      05-14-2019, 02:45 PM   #8
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Something odd about that graph.

Why did they only spin the car to 6000 RPM’s?

BMW quotes peak TQ at 5860 RPM but this car made peak TQ much lower in the RPM range and the TQ figure is dropping before 5860.

5860 RPM is per https://www.topspeed.com/cars/bmw/20...-ar181079.html, couldn’t actually find this on BMW’s site.
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      05-14-2019, 02:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VCP View Post
BMW M let's see a proper Nürburgring lap time please.
Isn’t the official ‘Ring time posted for the F90 at 7:38? The F90 Comp has been out for almost a year now, so I’m surprised new ‘Ring times for the supposedly better-handling variant has been publicized yet. C’mon BMW, think the Comp can shave a few seconds off the base F90’s time at least? After all, what’s all that extra suspension tuning and stiffening good for other than just a firmer ride.
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      05-14-2019, 03:07 PM   #10
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Correct. I have a feeling they do not want to take away from the upcoming M8 time. I believe the F90Comp would knock closer to 10sec of the full lap. It is much more aggressive than the base F90. Handling is superior. I have had my F90comp on track and it is shockingly capable! All the Marshalls and other drivers came over after each session saying "that car really should not be doing what is does!" Matched my M4GTS laptime at that track on my first outing with F90comp.


Quote:
Originally Posted by masmole View Post
Isn’t the official ‘Ring time posted for the F90 at 7:38? The F90 Comp has been out for almost a year now, so I’m surprised new ‘Ring times for the supposedly better-handling variant has been publicized yet. C’mon BMW, think the Comp can shave a few seconds off the base F90’s time at least? After all, what’s all that extra suspension tuning and stiffening good for other than just a firmer ride.
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      05-14-2019, 03:08 PM   #11
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Could care a less about drag to be honest I am just hoping BMW M has a spotter on the forum and gets the Comp lap time set


Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
the F90 time is compared to the Ford GT... isn't the M850 or the M8 the direct competitior here?
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      05-14-2019, 03:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatcat View Post
This is SA's figure.
As per that other thread I linked to, their figure for the F10 was 649ps, then Auto Bild said 607ps.

The change to the F90 generation is roughly inline in regards to the extra power figures with the Maha and Insoric dynos, 671ps and 628ps
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      05-14-2019, 03:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
the F90 time is compared to the Ford GT... isn't the M850 or the M8 the direct competitior here?
I think they are just mentioning that as a car that has a bit more power and less weight but a similar time. The cause here as I mentioned is the 0-60mph time for the F90 is crazy good because of its 4wd and launch. Shorter gearing may play a part of it too.
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      05-14-2019, 03:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N3M3S1S View Post
Something odd about that graph.

Why did they only spin the car to 6000 RPM’s?

BMW quotes peak TQ at 5860 RPM but this car made peak TQ much lower in the RPM range and the TQ figure is dropping before 5860.

5860 RPM is per https://www.topspeed.com/cars/bmw/20...-ar181079.html, couldn’t actually find this on BMW’s site.
They hit the 155mph limiter at 6000rpm. Shame they didn't take it to the limiter in 5th.

If you want proper specs etc, I always go to the press site. https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...on?language=en

The technical pdf has the full power curve.
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      05-14-2019, 04:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad850csi View Post
They hit the 155mph limiter at 6000rpm. Shame they didn't take it to the limiter in 5th.

If you want proper specs etc, I always go to the press site. https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...on?language=en

The technical pdf has the full power curve.
Thanks!
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      05-14-2019, 04:10 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N3M3S1S View Post
Something odd about that graph.

Why did they only spin the car to 6000 RPM’s?
"If you're wondering why the graph shows a sudden drop at 6000 rpm, that's where the M5 hits its 162-mph governor in sixth gear."
"To avoid any torque multiplication by the car's eight-speed transmission, we ran the test in sixth gear, which is a direct-drive or 1.00:1 ratio."
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      05-14-2019, 07:36 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad850csi View Post
They hit the 155mph limiter at 6000rpm. Shame they didn't take it to the limiter in 5th.

If you want proper specs etc, I always go to the press site. https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...on?language=en

The technical pdf has the full power curve.
This link is very helpful! Thank you!
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      05-14-2019, 08:33 PM   #18
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Everyone always wants more that advertised, and to believe that their car is a freak power-wise! Doesn't matter the make or model either.

While it is possible the car is very slightly underrated, the power is likely very close to advertised; any confusion is caused by dynos or their operators. Modern production tolerances are tight, etc. The trap speed for an AWD Auto, 700hp car would be different, even if heavy.

NOTE: The M5 is an awesome car and class leader!
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      05-14-2019, 08:48 PM   #19
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competition

Hi: I had a ride in one the other day, and it was phenomenal.
Jack
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      05-14-2019, 09:08 PM   #20
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Here's the M5 Comp on an AWD (linked) Mustang dyno. The second pull is map 1 on a JB4.

Name:  Stock and map 1.jpg
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Here's the same car 5 minutes later with a custom boost setup using map 6.

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      05-14-2019, 09:12 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth7 View Post
While it is possible the car is very slightly underrated, the power is likely very close to advertised; any confusion is caused by dynos or their operators. Modern production tolerances are tight, etc.!
Nah, it isn't. This model stands out--it's far more powerful than advertised... as is my former car, the 2018 E63S. The posted numbers conveniently meet various compliance requirements the world over... hmmm.
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      05-14-2019, 09:16 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad850csi View Post
They hit the 155mph limiter at 6000rpm. Shame they didn't take it to the limiter in 5th.

If you want proper specs etc, I always go to the press site. https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...on?language=en

The technical pdf has the full power curve.
See my earlier post; we ran it in 5th largely because of the speed limiter.
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