[rice_rocket88]

Just to get this out there... I have been searching online for the differences and some ideas, but most seem to be "speculation" of closed deck vs open deck, newer is better.. newer is cost cutting. So I was hoping to gather a little more info here on the b58 section. My assumption is that there is enough of you that have moved up from an N55 car to a B58 car.

I myself have been driving an E60 N54 for 5 or 6 years now and have been really happy with FBO and JB4. I've gotten to drive/install various different flashes/piggybacks on N54 engines and some N55 variants. Definitely for the "stage 1" beginners.. all the N55 cars I've driven have been pretty tame compared to my N54. I have yet to actually be in a B58, but I've read a lot of raves about it. Just browsing around these forums it does sound like people have dyno tested their B58's with minimal mods to have higher outputs... no complaints on reliability.

I think I'm going to settle in on a 16/17 435xi or 440xi model but that's exactly the flip over of the engine years that I'm trying to decide. Any helpful comments or criticisms welcome, I have tough skin I like to do my reading and research before pulling the trigger. I've only had a brief moment to ask my friend who owns a BMW shop and he said N55 has more support for more mods, he'd probably get that if I had to choose bang for buck. However, the 16/17 model years are starting to fall out of leases right now so I may have more to choose from and not much of a price difference in between.

Thanks!

[David0ff]

Just in terms of maintenance, at your expense, regular maintenance as well as dealing with the catastrophic engine failure, N55 is More affordable than B58 for the time being.

B58 will be more of a pain in the ass to service, chains, vanos, chain guides etc as all these are toward the firewall.

Intake manifold + integrated charge air cooler + extra pluming etc seems reliable for now but only time will tell.

B58 Complexity > N55 Complexity ( including accessories )

for the next ~5 years, my bet is it will be more cost effective to run an N55 base vs a B58 at your expense until loads of people start crashing B58 chassis and we get a plethora of parts everywhere.

Power Potential $ for Reward Power B58 will lead and is currently leading with the exception of the super high HP record ground braking areas where experience and development with the N55 platform is still ahead given the vast aftermarket support ( turbos, meth, intakes, charge coolers, HPFP etc), but not for very very long. B58 is a beast and will earn its place at the top.

[jalkster]

B58 has already proven to make more power than its predecessors, stock for stock, equal mods, whatever. I mean to make ~400whp in a n55 you have to run a upgraded chargepipe and intercooler no matter what. B58? tune it and go. (take off the run flats too )

N55 will have way more support and is overall more understood than this platform. The new MG1 ECU in the b58 cars is way more complex.

BUT the B58 will be in the supra... and if that doesnt drive enough attention for aftermarket fun, idk what will. We about to be running HKS products on a german car! haha

Reliability and maintenance wise... too early for now, but nothing standing out yet. Although if something goes wrong with the intercooler, it may suck very bad.

[G.Newt]

Originally Posted by David0ff

Just in terms of maintenance, at your expense, regular maintenance as well as dealing with the catastrophic engine failure, N55 is More affordable than B58 for the time being.

B58 will be more of a pain in the ass to service, chains, vanos, chain guides etc as all these are toward the firewall.

Intake manifold + integrated charge air cooler + extra pluming etc seems reliable for now but only time will tell.

B58 Complexity > N55 Complexity ( including accessories )

for the next ~5 years, my bet is it will be more cost effective to run an N55 base vs a B58 at your expense until loads of people start crashing B58 chassis and we get a plethora of parts everywhere.

Power Potential $ for Reward Power B58 will lead and is currently leading with the exception of the super high HP record ground braking areas where experience and development with the N55 platform is still ahead given the vast aftermarket support ( turbos, meth, intakes, charge coolers, HPFP etc), but not for very very long. B58 is a beast and will earn its place at the top.

New B58 has timing in the front, but for the rest of us F30 early adopters, that holds true.

Not sure about the parts. N55 is still in production and has been for a decade, but you can already find super low mileage B58 engines for ~$3.5k shipped. Newer cars doesn't mean people crash less But you're right, mostly everything will need to be purchased OEM for now.

[BMWILUVU]

Originally Posted by G.Newt

New B58 has timing in the front, but for the rest of us F30 early adopters, that holds true.

Not sure about the parts. N55 is still in production and has been for a decade, but you can already find super low mileage B58 engines for ~$3.5k shipped. Newer cars doesn't mean people crash less But you're right, mostly everything will need to be purchased OEM for now.

I am not worried about the timing chain. The VANOS in the rear is going to be a problem.

[G.Newt]

Originally Posted by BMWILUVU

I am not worried about the timing chain. The VANOS in the rear is going to be a problem.

Buy the parts, find a reputable shop to do an engine pull. Should be a 1-day job. Hell the dealership has specialized machines jut for pulling out an engine. But yeah, it would be a HELL of a lot easier if everything was on the front.

[B58]

B58 no doubt.... Toyota’s got their hands on it.

[chenry]

Originally Posted by B58

B58 no doubt.... Toyota’s got their hands on it.

This :-)

[rice_rocket88]

Wow, thanks for the detailed responses! I do worry a little about the b58 intercooler, read that you could take a rock to it and then you're in trouble! I suppose that may be why the motor makes more power combined with probably more boost.

I'm thinking that if the price difference is very very close I might go for the new engine, right now most are about 5-10k more... Which means a lot of mod money on the n55.

Now another question:. On my n54 e60 it has a ton of logistical problems with clearances like putting in downpipes etc. Is the 4 series and platform this tight to work on or easy like the 3 series e90's were regardless of awd or not? I read the diy on the 340 downpipe and it looked really really easy.. My car you had to drop the subframe and get special downpipes that we're basically hammered in to clear the axles.. Ugly!

[hardparker]

B58TU. Timing chain and VANOS are moved back to the front.

[MSport_Jon]

Originally Posted by B58

B58 no doubt.... Toyota’s got their hands on it.

Toyota did not have much a choice when it came to inline 6 engines... It was cheaper for them to have the entire car designed by another firm than to develop from ground up as in previous project cars. You will hear collaboration here and there but make no mistake, the entire car besides logos and outside shell screams BMW. Even the infotainment is a Harman Kardon QNX based system. Toyota did even had a say on matching the HP figures with the Z4 as BMW was concerned it could cannibalize sales. Toyota keeps spinning the story but any true follower can see the most minute BMW details in the Supra.

[B58]

Originally Posted by MSport_Jon

Toyota did not have much a choice when it came to inline 6 engines... It was cheaper for them to have the entire car designed by another firm than to develop from ground up as in previous project cars. You will hear collaboration here and there but make no mistake, the entire car besides logos and outside shell screams BMW. Even the infotainment is a Harman Kardon QNX based system. Toyota did even had a say on matching the HP figures with the Z4 as BMW was concerned it could cannibalize sales. Toyota keeps spinning the story but any true follower can see the most minute BMW details in the Supra.

Yeah it's a BMW no doubt, but they have their hands on the B58. The components including bolts were stress tested and such to make sure it passes their expectations prior to dropping in the engine into a Toyota chassis which technically is a BMW lol.

[MTWO]

B58T0 is a bmw TOYOTA motor and I love it!

[MSport_Jon]

Originally Posted by B58

Yeah it's a BMW no doubt, but they have their hands on the B58. The components including bolts were stress tested and such to make sure it passes their expectations prior to dropping in the engine into a Toyota chassis which technically is a BMW lol.

Time will tell... the B58 is no 2JZ no matter how much r&d Toyota may have placed in its nuts and bolts.

[Reseg]

Originally Posted by MSport_Jon

Time will tell... the B58 is no 2JZ no matter how much r&d Toyota may have placed in its nuts and bolts.

That was quite vague. I'm trying to understand the point of the comment.
Of course the B58 isn't a 2JZ, it's also not a Coyote lol. If you're saying it's lacking somewhere, by all means say where.

The B58 seems to be really well engineered, and hasn't shown any problem areas that I'm aware of thus far.

[ctbear]

Originally Posted by hardparker

B58TU. Timing chain and VANOS are moved back to the front.

This engine only exists in the new z4/supra for now right?

[G.Newt]

Originally Posted by ctbear

This engine only exists in the new z4/supra for now right?

M340i's also that are now in customers' hands.

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by G.Newt

M340i's also that are now in customers' hands.

It's in the previous gen 340 and x3m40i as well as 440

[G.Newt]

Originally Posted by bimmer456

It's in the previous gen 340 and x3m40i as well as 440

He's talking about the B58TU. We just have the OG version.

[ctbear]

Originally Posted by G.Newt

He's talking about the B58TU. We just have the OG version.

Guess we'll have to wait longer for the B58TU to spread across the line up.

Is anyone aware of whether or not there is a -TU version for the B48 (4 cyl) engine?

Currently, the B48 engine has the timing chain and VANOS solenoids in the back of the engine (against the firewall) just like in the B58 right? If so, I hope they move all those components to the front where it is easier to access for maintenance just like in the B58TU...

[johnung]

Originally Posted by rice_rocket88

Just to get this out there... I have been searching online for the differences and some ideas, but most seem to be "speculation" of closed deck vs open deck, newer is better.. newer is cost cutting. So I was hoping to gather a little more info here on the b58 section. My assumption is that there is enough of you that have moved up from an N55 car to a B58 car.

I myself have been driving an E60 N54 for 5 or 6 years now and have been really happy with FBO and JB4. I've gotten to drive/install various different flashes/piggybacks on N54 engines and some N55 variants. Definitely for the "stage 1" beginners.. all the N55 cars I've driven have been pretty tame compared to my N54. I have yet to actually be in a B58, but I've read a lot of raves about it. Just browsing around these forums it does sound like people have dyno tested their B58's with minimal mods to have higher outputs... no complaints on reliability.

I think I'm going to settle in on a 16/17 435xi or 440xi model but that's exactly the flip over of the engine years that I'm trying to decide. Any helpful comments or criticisms welcome, I have tough skin I like to do my reading and research before pulling the trigger. I've only had a brief moment to ask my friend who owns a BMW shop and he said N55 has more support for more mods, he'd probably get that if I had to choose bang for buck. However, the 16/17 model years are starting to fall out of leases right now so I may have more to choose from and not much of a price difference in between.

Thanks!

FYI- I had this conversation with a BMW tech. He said that the N55 is a proven platform with enough miles on it to know what the issues are. He said that he is not as worried about the B58 being a new engine that could have gremlins because it's not really a new engine. He said that it is the new BMW modular engine. He said that the 6 cylinder is a scaled up version of the smaller engine that they have been running in Mini Coopers for several years. He thinks most of the bugs have been worked out.

As far as mod availability, I'd base that decision on how crazy or not you are likely to be on mods based on what you've done on previous cars. If u r likely to do it, see if it's available now.

B58- you might upgrade radiator at some point only if you want to, rather than air to air intercooler because there isn't one in B58 since intercooler is water cooled.

B58 BM3 Stage2 just requires free flow catted or catless Downpipe, not DP and FMIC like N55.

On either platform I'd make sure it already has the blue m sport brakes which were only a $600 factory upgrade. It's more expensive and a bigger hassle to upgrade with used brake parts later and there really is a big difference. However even if you buy a car with blue calipers, I would swap out the stock pads for Hawk HPS 5.0 (about $265) and upgrade to stainless steel brake lines for about $106. That will maximize your brakes for the street.

[ctbear]

Originally Posted by hardparker

B58TU. Timing chain and VANOS are moved back to the front.

FYI, looks like timing chain and VANOS were not moved back to the front in the B58TU. It's all still in the back.