[cc3]

Test drive confirmed to me the ride is pretty harsh on U.K. roads. Test reports seem to say adaptive suspension is better.

[ZeroFx]

Been like that since F30/F32

Best option you can get on a car for £550 at the time which nobody ever specced up. It should be standard instead of the crap they make standard.

[creepy coupe]

It's part of the M Sport + package, and as per the F3# an option worth ticking.

[TodmordenLad]

I've got it on my F36 which is on 19"s and had it on my last two BMWs, which were also on 19"s
I know that it divides opinion but I wouldn't have a BMW on large rims in this country without it

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by ZeroFx

Been like that since F30/F32

Best option you can get on a car for £550 at the time which nobody ever specced up. It should be standard instead of the crap they make standard.

Think it depends on the model! I ticked the box for adaptive suspension on my F31 and reckon it was a waste of money but perhaps on an S-Drive with M-Sport suspension it makes more of a difference?

However, the fact the sports suspension set-ups from the likes of ACS and Birds are passive speaks volumes IMO; if you want to do it right you probably need to get rid of the standard BMW springs and dampers and start again....

[TodmordenLad]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Think it depends on the model! I ticked the box for adaptive suspension on my F31 and reckon it was a waste of money but perhaps on an S-Drive with M-Sport suspension it makes more of a difference?

However, the fact the sports suspension set-ups from the likes of ACS and Birds are passive speaks volumes IMO; if you want to do it right you probably need to get rid of the standard BMW springs and dampers and start again....

Wouldn't disagree at all
The best after market solution will always be better than OEM, I reckon, on non M cars
Adaptive suspension only helps to correct the problem created by the combination of large rims, inadequate suspension components, RFTs and crap roads
It shouldn't be necessary in the first place. I wasn't going to spend another £2k+ however on a brand new car so OEM adaptive was the 'in warranty' sticking plaster

[pmgreenwood]

Originally Posted by cc3

Test drive confirmed to me the ride is pretty harsh on U.K. roads. Test reports seem to say adaptive suspension is better.

What size wheels was the car you drove on?

[ZeroFx]

Originally Posted by TodmordenLad

Wouldn't disagree at all
The best after market solution will always be better than OEM, I reckon, on non M cars
Adaptive suspension only helps to correct the problem created by the combination of large rims, inadequate suspension components, RFTs and crap roads
It shouldn't be necessary in the first place. I wasn't going to spend another £2k+ however on a brand new car so OEM adaptive was the 'in warranty' sticking plaster

People who sell aftermarket solutions make claims which are impossible to prove as its all anecdotal. It Suffers from purchase bias and is always better than stock standard suspension. Especially if the stock suspension is worn.

Lorcan couldnt explain how his fixed suspension system could beat adaptive M from BMW.

I can tell you for a fact that a fixed suspension setup cannot be better than an adaptive system if you value both comfort and firmness . If you have ever had to set up a bikes suspension then you would understand that you are trying to hit a moving target depending on where you ride. It cannot be both stiff and compliant at the same time. You have to pick a compromise at the expense of one or another level of performance.

Adaptive can be both compliant when needed to improve ride and firm when you want performance. Sticking a fancy set of coils painted yellow and an improved shock will never give you both of these because you are fixing the performance when you set it up and cannot change it on the fly.

Adaptive can be controlled by the ECU by corner independantly if im not mistaken which gives the a level of control no fixed system can even come close to.

[TodmordenLad]

Originally Posted by ZeroFx

People who sell aftermarket solutions make claims which are impossible to prove as its all anecdotal. It Suffers from purchase bias and is always better than stock standard suspension. Especially if the stock suspension is worn.

Lorcan couldnt explain how his fixed suspension system could beat adaptive M from BMW.

I can tell you for a fact that a fixed suspension setup cannot be better than an adaptive system if you value both comfort and firmness . If you have ever had to set up a bikes suspension then you would understand that you are trying to hit a moving target depending on where you ride. It cannot be both stiff and compliant at the same time. You have to pick a compromise at the expense of one or another level of performance.

Adaptive can be both compliant when needed to improve ride and firm when you want performance. Sticking a fancy set of coils painted yellow and an improved shock will never give you both of these because you are fixing the performance when you set it up and cannot change it on the fly.

Adaptive can be controlled by the ECU by corner independantly if im not mistaken which gives the a level of control no fixed system can even come close to.

I don't disagree with you either . I'm in two minds on this one
All I do know with any certainty is a) that BMWs adaptive suspension improved the ride and handling on the last three M Sport + RWD cars I've had over the stock cars I test drove before buying and b) that the best (passive) suspension set up I've experienced in recent years has been on modern Fords

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by TodmordenLad

I don't disagree with you either . I'm in two minds on this one
All I do know with any certainty is a) that BMWs adaptive suspension improved the ride and handling on the last three M Sport + RWD cars I've had over the stock cars I test drove before buying and b) that the best (passive) suspension set up I've experienced in recent years has been on modern Fords

There is no 'one' answer. Suspension is a compromise as ZeroFx has stated.

What contributes to the extreme viewpoints, is often what we hone in on, or prioritize. For me, adaptive widens the working envelope, something that gives me a better working chassis.

I fully understand some users want a decent passive chassis, totally predictable in all conditions, even if that means some extremes in use. The Ford Focus ST is a good example, is a very good passive setup for decent roads. Has a compliance you don't expect, combined with very good handling and predictability. Rides well, even as a passenger, front or rear. But drop the road quality and it is now outside most users 'comfort' zone. I couldn't live with it, however good it works through the twisties, (as it does up here in the Highlands).

Suspension choice and the rating of what we have or like, is down to our needs and priorities. Single driver use, loaded boot, passengers, wheel choice, comfort levels, road quality, town/country/motorway use, etc., etc.

BMW have to set up a compromise to suit a wide user base, be it SE, M-sport, or adaptive suspension options. None will suit everyone.

The only way to really judge a suspension is to test with full instrumentation. See what the real differences are and what users rate personally, against a known baseline. I know personally I don't like a car where the natural frequency is on the higher side for human comfort. My body is very sensitive to things like head toss.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by ZeroFx

Been like that since F30/F32

Best option you can get on a car for £550 at the time which nobody ever specced up. It should be standard instead of the crap they make standard.

I agree, the best value and most transformative factory option available. I specced it, as did a large number of others on here. Not on the majority of fleet/lease etc. cars though.

[pdk42]

Big rims + RFT tyres + "sports" suspension = poor ride. Simple.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by ZeroFx

People who sell aftermarket solutions make claims which are impossible to prove as its all anecdotal. It Suffers from purchase bias and is always better than stock standard suspension. Especially if the stock suspension is worn.

Lorcan couldnt explain how his fixed suspension system could beat adaptive M from BMW.

I can tell you for a fact that a fixed suspension setup cannot be better than an adaptive system if you value both comfort and firmness . If you have ever had to set up a bikes suspension then you would understand that you are trying to hit a moving target depending on where you ride. It cannot be both stiff and compliant at the same time. You have to pick a compromise at the expense of one or another level of performance.

Adaptive can be both compliant when needed to improve ride and firm when you want performance. Sticking a fancy set of coils painted yellow and an improved shock will never give you both of these because you are fixing the performance when you set it up and cannot change it on the fly.

Adaptive can be controlled by the ECU by corner independantly if im not mistaken which gives the a level of control no fixed system can even come close to.

I take your point but poor quality adaptive suspension isn't going to be as good as good quality passive suspension and the issue with standard BMW's is the springs and dampers simply aren't very good quality. Therefore, spending £500 to have adaptive on an otherwise standard set-up is akin to polishing a turd IMO (or at least it was on my F31!).

As for not being able to have good handling and a decent ride with passive suspension, the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive as a drive in a Lotus
would demonstrate!

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by cc3

Test drive confirmed to me the ride is pretty harsh on U.K. roads. Test reports seem to say adaptive suspension is better.

What were you driving, what wheels, etc.?

The following is a quote from Whatcar? Now we know many on here won't be looking to Whatcar? for their preferred reviews, keep the context of advice to the wider BMW user market.

BMW 3 Series saloon ride
The way the 3 Series rides depends on whether you go for the standard passive suspension, stiffer passive M Sport suspension or do what we’d suggest is best, which is to tick the box for the adaptive Variable Damper Control (VDC) setup.

On passive dampers, the best version we have tried thus far is the Sport. Fitted with standard suspension, 18in alloy wheels and optional run-flat tyres, it provides a great blend of comfort and poise. It’s very well controlled, so over heavily undulating roads it won’t bounce you out of your seat like the C-Class can, yet it’s supple enough that bigger, soft-edged bumps, such as sleeping policemen, are ridden over with a good degree of grace.
M Sport models on their stiffer passive M Sport suspension and optional 19in wheels are even better controlled. However, impacts over sharp road imperfections are more pronounced, so be warned – sportiness takes a higher priority than comfort. You can delete the M Sport suspension at no cost, though.

The best riding of them all, however, are the cars fitted with VDC. We had the opportunity to sample a VDC equipped M Sport 320d model on large 19in wheels on BMW’s Spanish launch and found the ride to be far more sophisticated both around town and at higher speeds. Vertical movements over sudden undulations were kept to a minimum and, although the ride is still on the firm side, potholes and road surface abrasions are less noticeable inside.

in reality what is going to happen, even with the advice from Whatcar? Most users will opt for M-sport models with passive M-sport suspension, and a 19"/20" wheel option. Can't afford the adaptive damping, but want the wheels at all costs. Result... for most of the above users... a less than optimised chassis.

[sensible]

I got 24% off the price of my car when I bought it new, including any options. Adaptive M-Sport suspension cost me about £400, and seems money well spent.

[ZeroFx]

Originally Posted by JNW1

I take your point but poor quality adaptive suspension isn't going to be as good as good quality passive suspension and the issue with standard BMW's is the springs and dampers simply aren't very good quality. Therefore, spending £500 to have adaptive on an otherwise standard set-up is akin to polishing a turd IMO (or at least it was on my F31!).

As for not being able to have good handling and a decent ride with passive suspension, the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive as a drive in a Lotus
would demonstrate!

I think this has more to do with F31 than any thing else.

My F33 is not light but its nicely balanced and performs well with adaptive. Sport is excellent and comform is nice when cruising.

You also cannot compare to a Lotus as the weight differences and chassis is like chalk and cheese to a F31.

Make no mistake its no audi magnetic ride though but then its not a 2k option either.

All i know is that spending 2k on aftermarket setup might be better in some instances but wont be as flexable as adaptive.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by ZeroFx

You also cannot compare to a Lotus as the weight differences and chassis is like chalk and cheese to a F31.

I wasn't comparing a Lotus directly with an F31, I was merely using Lotus as an example to illustrate it's perfectly possible to have both good handling and a decent ride with passive suspension. Perhaps I misunderstood but in one of your earlier posts you seemed to imply such a combination could only be achieved with adaptive suspension?

[ZeroFx]

Originally Posted by JNW1

I wasn't comparing a Lotus directly with an F31, I was merely using Lotus as an example to illustrate it's perfectly possible to have both good handling and a decent ride with passive suspension. Perhaps I misunderstood but in one of your earlier posts you seemed to imply such a combination could only be achieved with adaptive suspension?

Its only possible because its a lotus and has been designed for handling over everything. My mates lotus didnt even have air con or even a radio.

That said its all subjective anyway its probably nothing to do with the quality of the components which give you that kind of ride. Probably more to do with weight and chassis and driving position making the ride "feel" better or different

I have suspension on a bike which costs more than a cars and i can tell you that its impossible to get both comfort and performance. Turn one up and the other suffers. The name of the game is to maximise grip from the tyres over different conditions. High speed and low speed compression with different rebound settings. Not to mention weight variances affect the handling. Even tyre pressure has a huge impact. Then there is sag and air or coil set ups.

Even with all those settings they still come with a switch which locks out the travel to firm up the ride in 3 different settings.

Adaptive M is basically a high tech version of those 3 settings on a bikes suspension.

You will not get a fixed suspension set up on a road car that is both high performance and comfortable at the same time. The best we can get is a switch which allows us to select which we prefer at any given time and even that is a compromise.

People often perceive good ride quality but its actually the chassis twisting or the bodying rolling or the car squating under acceleration or at worst soft tyres. All of these things are HIGHLY undesirable traits for a performance car and all of them reduce handling and traction. This is why you often see cars in the hedge as they suddenly let go.

[robbiep]

I seem to recall that Top Gear tested the Golf R a few years ago, and the Stig got the fastest laps with the suspension in 'comfort' mode - mainly due to the predicatability and lack of twitchiness on the limit.

Possibly the ideal solution is to go for MSport spec, but delete MSport suspension ?

[pmgreenwood]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

What were you driving, what wheels, etc.?

The following is a quote from Whatcar? Now we know many on here won't be looking to Whatcar? for their preferred reviews, keep the context of advice to the wider BMW user market.



in reality what is going to happen, even with the advice from Whatcar? Most users will opt for M-sport models with passive M-sport suspension, and a 19"/20" wheel option. Can't afford the adaptive damping, but want the wheels at all costs. Result... for most of the above users... a less than optimised chassis.

And undoubtedly, the best ride of all would be with adaptive plus 17" never mind 18" wheels, both available on F30 but not G20

[ZeroFx]

Originally Posted by pmgreenwood

And undoubtedly, the best ride of all would be with adaptive plus 17" never mind 18" wheels, both available on F30 but not G20

If people want ride quality get a 5 series or maybe an Audi.

Dynamic driving comes at a cost.

If you ever get in to an M3/4 you will find out what harsh feels like

[ZeroFx]

Originally Posted by robbiep

I seem to recall that Top Gear tested the Golf R a few years ago, and the Stig got the fastest laps with the suspension in 'comfort' mode - mainly due to the predicatability and lack of twitchiness on the limit.

Possibly the ideal solution is to go for MSport spec, but delete MSport suspension ?

Just because its in comfort doesnt mean its not doing its job. They are still active with the ECU controlling each corner. They are just in a softer setting.

You are comparing dumb springs to electronically controlled independant shocks.